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Genesis 2 Female Genitalia - No Shapemorphs ?
Posted: 29 December 2013 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Yonas Ang - 29 December 2013 09:48 AM

Here are several point I would to discuss according to this thread topic.

1. Why DAZ remove the G2F genitalia morph, while the G2M genitalia morph still there ? That is the only question I want to know the answer of.
I just never understand the decision made by DAZ by not including the G2F genitalia morph.

2. People should be aware of Glamour and Erotic art is not considered pornography, please don’t generalize all nude art being porn, that is not nice at all.

3. Female genitalia by all mean is not a static layered image straped to their hips, I have hard time rendering pose that need genitalia adjusment just because there is no morph for it. I have no problem with G2M whatsoever because the morph still there.

4. There is no morph for the G2F genitalia, so guess what, should I always cover or black out every pixel of the genitalia for certain nude pose, this is not nice at all in term of realism and G2F being the most leading and high end figure product of DAZ.

Below is the description of G2F morph bundle which state that “us, costumer, should be able to sculpt the G2F figure to be more specific and complete”. Without the genitalia morph I could say it isn’t “complete”.

It doesn’t specifically state you would be able to sculpt in detailed genitals or morph them.  Genesis 2 Female has a higher poly count than Genesis in some areas but in all honesty, compared to older, higher poly count figures there aren’t enough polys to to it. 

Before you ask about adding polys, remember that if you screw up the verts, the existing morphs don’t work. 

Odd point but for those who want all the “bells and whistles” for the female gens, why not just hop over to Renderotica and buy what you need? 

Reality: Victoria didn’t even have gens until Victoria 5 was released.  The only reason they added it to the Pro Bundle was because during the V4 heyday, they kept having threads about how it was needed for Biology and Medical illustration.  So, to meet the claim, they added it to the Pro Bundle on the premise that if you were a “professional” you would have the funds to purchase it.  If you were not a “professional” but a hobbyist, you wouldn’t (paraphrase from an old thread with DAZ_Rand). 

If there were no other options available, I’d say users had a complaint.  Truth is, you can probably pick up what you need at Renderotica for a lot less than the Pro Bundle would cost.

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Posted: 29 December 2013 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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icprncss - 29 December 2013 11:52 AM
Yonas Ang - 29 December 2013 09:48 AM

Here are several point I would to discuss according to this thread topic.

1. Why DAZ remove the G2F genitalia morph, while the G2M genitalia morph still there ? That is the only question I want to know the answer of.
I just never understand the decision made by DAZ by not including the G2F genitalia morph.

2. People should be aware of Glamour and Erotic art is not considered pornography, please don’t generalize all nude art being porn, that is not nice at all.

3. Female genitalia by all mean is not a static layered image straped to their hips, I have hard time rendering pose that need genitalia adjusment just because there is no morph for it. I have no problem with G2M whatsoever because the morph still there.

4. There is no morph for the G2F genitalia, so guess what, should I always cover or black out every pixel of the genitalia for certain nude pose, this is not nice at all in term of realism and G2F being the most leading and high end figure product of DAZ.

Below is the description of G2F morph bundle which state that “us, costumer, should be able to sculpt the G2F figure to be more specific and complete”. Without the genitalia morph I could say it isn’t “complete”.

It doesn’t specifically state you would be able to sculpt in detailed genitals or morph them.  Genesis 2 Female has a higher poly count than Genesis in some areas but in all honesty, compared to older, higher poly count figures there aren’t enough polys to to it. 

Before you ask about adding polys, remember that if you screw up the verts, the existing morphs don’t work. 

Odd point but for those who want all the “bells and whistles” for the female gens, why not just hop over to Renderotica and buy what you need? 

Reality: Victoria didn’t even have gens until Victoria 5 was released.  The only reason they added it to the Pro Bundle was because during the V4 heyday, they kept having threads about how it was needed for Biology and Medical illustration.  So, to meet the claim, they added it to the Pro Bundle on the premise that if you were a “professional” you would have the funds to purchase it.  If you were not a “professional” but a hobbyist, you wouldn’t (paraphrase from an old thread with DAZ_Rand). 

If there were no other options available, I’d say users had a complaint.  Truth is, you can probably pick up what you need at Renderotica for a lot less than the Pro Bundle would cost.

I use only few seconds to write renderotica in my browser and go to the principal page. Only another few seconds to see V6 grafted with morphs genitals product just in this principal page. Another click and I see other products for G2M/M6.

 

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Posted: 29 December 2013 04:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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icprncss - 29 December 2013 11:52 AM

If there were no other options available, I’d say users had a complaint.  Truth is, you can probably pick up what you need at Renderotica for a lot less than the Pro Bundle would cost.

The ones at Renderotica are far less than perfect, might as well stick with the crease. Point is, DAZ should have made it and it should be added to all versions, not just the pro.

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Posted: 29 December 2013 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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The problem is not “the American people in general, the problem is that some people are extremely sensitive to nudity and/or artwork of a sexual nature, and could cause a whole lot of headaches for DAZ, no matter how unfair that might be. They are merely a business trying to make money, and are in no way obligated to take a stand for sexual freedom, or the wholesomeness of nudity. People need to stop criticizing both the American people as a whole and DAZ for this problem, because DAZ is just as much a victim of the hypocrisy as the rest of us.

Unless you have the funds to pay a thousand dollars per model, all they are trying to do is whatever they can to stay in business in a relatively small marketplace. Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

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Posted: 29 December 2013 06:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Anatomical correctness gone mad   LOL  LOL  LOL
...well, with no butthole ever, extra fiddling with the front parts will still fall short of anatomical purity for any nude that is posed in such a way as to reveal the deficiencies, especially with HD add-ons applied to the rest of the body.

The improved bending might make touching their toes look impressive at first glance, but only remains impressive so long as they wear trunks, briefs, pants, or some similar covering (well, I won’t go into the joys of postwork albeit perhaps the best current solution for those that need it all).

But yeah, get branded as an adult store and folk like PayPal won’t touch it with a bargepole.  I can’t disagree with Wheelman.

Such a pity that some of the items at Renderotica don’t fully support the rapidly expanding multitude of UV textures for the latest generation of DAZ shapes.

 

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Posted: 29 December 2013 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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FSMCDesigns - 29 December 2013 04:00 PM
icprncss - 29 December 2013 11:52 AM

If there were no other options available, I’d say users had a complaint.  Truth is, you can probably pick up what you need at Renderotica for a lot less than the Pro Bundle would cost.

The ones at Renderotica are far less than perfect, might as well stick with the crease. Point is, DAZ should have made it and it should be added to all versions, not just the pro.

Like I posted above, they didn’t through 4 generations of Vicki and then only did it for “professionals” based on claims that “professionals” needed it for “professional” illustration work.  In the end, DAZ did make it and then decided for whatever reason to pull it and replace it with the current version.  Not only that, they stopped the gender inequality of the guys having and the girls not.  Now, if you want them you either have to buy a Pro bundle or go somewhere else.

Anyone who owns a copy of Poser 5 has male and female figures which are not only anatomically correct but the gens have just about any morph you could want.  If you have P5, install it if you don’t have it installed and load Judy and or Don.

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Posted: 29 December 2013 10:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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TheWheelMan - 29 December 2013 05:38 PM

The problem is not “the American people in general, the problem is that some people are extremely sensitive to nudity and/or artwork of a sexual nature, and could cause a whole lot of headaches for DAZ, no matter how unfair that might be. They are merely a business trying to make money, and are in no way obligated to take a stand for sexual freedom, or the wholesomeness of nudity. People need to stop criticizing both the American people as a whole and DAZ for this problem, because DAZ is just as much a victim of the hypocrisy as the rest of us.

Unless you have the funds to pay a thousand dollars per model, all they are trying to do is whatever they can to stay in business in a relatively small marketplace. Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

I would assume DAZ doesn’t care so much about the ‘extremely sensitive people’ and more about the extremely sensitive credit card companies :D

In any way, I don’t see why some consumers, who want more elaborate genitals, should not voice their opinions on this. It’s a marketplace, people should freely say what they want to purchase. I mean you gotta start somewhere and DAZ is as good a place as any.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 12:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Even though I usually don’t do nude renders, I agree with the opinion. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame DAZ for the choices they’ve made. I’d probably do the same under the circumstances.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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First of all, thank you all for your interest in the discussion, and thank you for the TS for making this thread.
Ok, I’ll just make it straight and short for all the reply.

First of all, I do know that Renderotica/Renderotique provide some of genitalia, but that doesn’t matter. What made me confuse is why DAZ include morph for G2M while G2F don’t have it.

Second, Renderotica/Renderotique don’t provide us with Paypal payment method, and I believe lot of people still afraid giving the CC information to such website. I believe they are not big enough like Amazon, PayPal, Walmart, or even DAZ with higher quality database security. Other reason is, G2F is a product of DAZ, they should have handled it, not some 3rd party.

Third, while 3D figure is intended for art they should have realize the important of little detail like having anus is important. Imagine you meet a person without genital or anus, won’t you freak out ? And you won’t know it until you’ve been married to that person. It is creep me out every time I load the Genesis figure when I look carefuly they don’t have the genitalia or anus.

As Jabba said, there is morph that provide with several genitalia morph, but that morphs only good with clothed figure. It doens’t change the shape only bend or rotate, and will distort the texture, in most case it will just looks weird.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Larry Weinberg created Poser (the reason both DAZ3D and DAZ Studio even exist) as an artists tool.  Nothing more. 

http://drgeep.com/history/history.htm

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Posted: 30 December 2013 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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icprncss - 30 December 2013 08:18 AM

Larry Weinberg created Poser (the reason both DAZ3D and DAZ Studio even exist) as an artists tool.  Nothing more. 

http://drgeep.com/history/history.htm

Oh yes I remember the original Poser, on floppy disc no less.

It is really quite amazing how far it has come from a program that was made to help artists using ‘‘traditional’’ media.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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chohole - 30 December 2013 08:23 AM
icprncss - 30 December 2013 08:18 AM

Larry Weinberg created Poser (the reason both DAZ3D and DAZ Studio even exist) as an artists tool.  Nothing more. 

http://drgeep.com/history/history.htm

Oh yes I remember the original Poser, on floppy disc no less.

It is really quite amazing how far it has come from a program that was made to help artists using ‘‘traditional’’ media.

I still have it in an old floppy disc file box.  If you install the legacy content even to Pro 2014, you still get the original Poser Man.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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icprncss - 30 December 2013 08:35 AM
chohole - 30 December 2013 08:23 AM
icprncss - 30 December 2013 08:18 AM

Larry Weinberg created Poser (the reason both DAZ3D and DAZ Studio even exist) as an artists tool.  Nothing more. 

http://drgeep.com/history/history.htm

Oh yes I remember the original Poser, on floppy disc no less.

It is really quite amazing how far it has come from a program that was made to help artists using ‘‘traditional’’ media.

I still have it in an old floppy disc file box.  If you install the legacy content even to Pro 2014, you still get the original Poser Man.

When we moved up here, from an 8 room house to a 4 room house, with kitchen extension, we needed to think carefully as to what we brought with us and what stayed for the Charity people when they cleared the house. Floppy discs mostly stayed, as did my external iomega zip drive and discs.

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Posted: 30 December 2013 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Yonas Ang - 30 December 2013 08:09 AM

First of all, thank you all for your interest in the discussion, and thank you for the TS for making this thread.
Ok, I’ll just make it straight and short for all the reply.

First of all, I do know that Renderotica/Renderotique provide some of genitalia, but that doesn’t matter. What made me confuse is why DAZ include morph for G2M while G2F don’t have it.

The G2M morphs aren’t really morphs, per se. They are more size for the various scales Genesis can be, since the attachment is external. Even then, they don’t scale that well.

Second, Renderotica/Renderotique don’t provide us with Paypal payment method, and I believe lot of people still afraid giving the CC information to such website. I believe they are not big enough like Amazon, PayPal, Walmart, or even DAZ with higher quality database security. Other reason is, G2F is a product of DAZ, they should have handled it, not some 3rd party.

The reason why renderotica can’t take paypal and DAZ can,  and Renderotica has gens shape morphs and DAZ doesn’t should be apparent to you.  Renderotica has an adult store status, and the only payment method is a VISA method processor especially for adult sites, which is more expensive than other processors. If DAZ were to carry what you’re asking, they risk the adult status, and the paypal method goes away here. This would also drive up the prices that they charge, since they have to build in the credit processing charge. Even then, Renderotica can’t carry everything as they temporarily got their processing pulled for products and artwork that were outside VISA’s term of services. I think they went almost a month without ANY payment options. That’s why DAZ is cautious about what they carry, you don’t want to be at the mercy at only one or two payment processing companies and no paypal.

Third, while 3D figure is intended for art they should have realize the important of little detail like having anus is important. Imagine you meet a person without genital or anus, won’t you freak out ? And you won’t know it until you’ve been married to that person. It is creep me out every time I load the Genesis figure when I look carefuly they don’t have the genitalia or anus.

That’s where 3rd party companies come in. DAZ provides the base that you can expand on. 3rd parties provide the rest.

 

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Posted: 30 December 2013 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Barubary - 29 December 2013 10:26 PM
TheWheelMan - 29 December 2013 05:38 PM

The problem is not “the American people in general, the problem is that some people are extremely sensitive to nudity and/or artwork of a sexual nature, and could cause a whole lot of headaches for DAZ, no matter how unfair that might be. They are merely a business trying to make money, and are in no way obligated to take a stand for sexual freedom, or the wholesomeness of nudity. People need to stop criticizing both the American people as a whole and DAZ for this problem, because DAZ is just as much a victim of the hypocrisy as the rest of us.

Unless you have the funds to pay a thousand dollars per model, all they are trying to do is whatever they can to stay in business in a relatively small marketplace. Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

I would assume DAZ doesn’t care so much about the ‘extremely sensitive people’ and more about the extremely sensitive credit card companies :D

In any way, I don’t see why some consumers, who want more elaborate genitals, should not voice their opinions on this. It’s a marketplace, people should freely say what they want to purchase. I mean you gotta start somewhere and DAZ is as good a place as any.

And without those extremely sensitive payment processors, DAZ would not have a business.  Do you really want to go back to days of checks, money orders and 4 to 6 weeks for delivery? 

Those who want it can voice their opinions.  No one is saying they can’t.  Yes, it’s a marketplace.  But DAZ owns the marketplace and DAZ decides what they will and will not sell.  If you read Male Media’s post, you will understand better why DAZ has taken the course they have.

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