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Versatility vs specificity
Posted: 18 July 2013 08:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Speaking of transferring SheFreak 4 into Genesis, it works with my method, - the only correction in it is that you need to pose V4 as close to default Genesis as possible before converting her to WeightMapped (M4 pose is much closer to Genesis). Didn’t take me long to do.
Here is Genesis SheFreak4-1 with some other female Genesis/G2F morphs. The only small problem I got is a small distortion (not on this picture) in her collars/shoulders in some cases of posing arms up but I think bone adjustment would fix it.
I really should have transferred SheFreak 4 sooner, her shape is very unique.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Jabba101 - 18 July 2013 05:41 PM

I can buy into the “even more gender-specific detailing” polemic right up until I drop her pants… umm, where’s the detail?  Wait, wait, hang on, here’s a plaster cast static model of just the front half of the nether regions… it’s a bit like giving a kid a pretend bag of sweets then wondering why they’re not happy.

This really surprises me that they’d go with a Barbie doll mesh while claiming the new mesh was necessary to increase female anatomical accuracy and then forgo the one part of anatomy that definitely separates the boys from the girls.

C’mon, look at the MakeHuman mesh. They’ve built a unimesh that can accurately produce BOTH set of genials, male and female. The clitoris can morph into a penis, the labia can morph into testicles. There’s really no reason why Daz can’t produce a unimesh with genital morph capabilities built right into the mesh.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 08:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Mattymanx - 18 July 2013 07:59 PM

Concerning Gia, the thought crossed my mind that not everyone is going to want to buy V6 and the muscle and body morphs to get a muscular female character but with Gia they can have that styled character at a lower cost.

I… don’t follow the logic here.  The Body Morphs for Genesis 2 Female are (off sale) $20.  Genesis 2 works with the V5 uv’s.  So I can do a muscular female character using Genesis 2 Female without spending $40 (off sale) for Gia.  Yes, getting Gia is cheaper than getting V6 and the body morphs, but I don’t need V6 to use Genesis 2 Female.

That said, I’ve decided to see Gia, Victoria 6, and the ladies to follow as the next stage of progression in the Elite series, along the same lines as Reby Sky.  With her you got a full body morph and a skin texture.  Gia and V6 add a UV map designed to take advantage of their specific shape.  With the rest of the original Elite line, the Morphs were sold (in small bundles) separately from the $30 (off sale) skin textures.  The progression makes sense to me.

Not that I’m in any hurry to switch.  As people keep pointing out, Genesis still works just fine on my machine.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 09:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Kattey - 18 July 2013 08:17 PM

Speaking of transferring SheFreak 4 into Genesis, it works with my method, - the only correction in it is that you need to pose V4 as close to default Genesis as possible before converting her to WeightMapped (M4 pose is much closer to Genesis). Didn’t take me long to do.
Here is Genesis SheFreak4-1 with some other female Genesis/G2F morphs. The only small problem I got is a small distortion (not on this picture) in her collars/shoulders in some cases of posing arms up but I think bone adjustment would fix it.
I really should have transferred SheFreak 4 sooner, her shape is very unique.

Very nice!

I just got SheFreak to Gen the easy way with GenX and transferred them all at once using ‘selected morphs’. There’s some differences, and I had to add in some more ab definition to GenFreak using the muscularity morphs, but all in all I’d say she looks ok. There’s some differences with the breast shape too, but I didn’t dig into it that far yet.

SheFreak on the left, GenFreak on the right. Using Body 1 and Thraso’s head.

/edit
On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

Free RAMWolff’s Genesis morphs have some very awesome morphs for definition details, have you look in there?
Also I used some Finess/Bodybuilder definitions, seems to work rather well.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 09:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Kattey - 18 July 2013 09:27 PM

On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

Free RAMWolff’s Genesis morphs have some very awesome morphs for definition details, have you look in there?
Also I used some Finess/Bodybuilder definitions, seems to work rather well.

Oh, I’ve got the muscularity morphs from the store for Genesis, I just wasn’t paying close enough attention when I was working on her. lol

I do have all of Ram’s morphs for G2F, though. About the only morphs I have for that chick.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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I’m also finding that if you dial a moprh about 105% it saves small definition better but I don’t know if Gen-X allows you to do this.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 09:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Kattey - 18 July 2013 09:44 PM

I’m also finding that if you dial a moprh about 105% it saves small definition better but I don’t know if Gen-X allows you to do this.

I can just turn off limits in the parameters.

/edit
Adding in extra just bulks her up more without adding any real extra definition. I’ll just do it manually through the muscle morphs and save a shape preset or a controller morph.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Male-M3dia - 18 July 2013 02:09 PM

Surprising how now that people see a female shape, the can’t envision it doing anything the androgynous one did, where previously people in the beginning couldn’t see how that androgynous shape couldn’t be a female.

Maybe they’re different people.

 

dan.shive - 18 July 2013 04:18 PM

It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

Than maybe it’s because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they’re not heard.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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DaWaterRat - 18 July 2013 08:40 PM
Mattymanx - 18 July 2013 07:59 PM

Concerning Gia, the thought crossed my mind that not everyone is going to want to buy V6 and the muscle and body morphs to get a muscular female character but with Gia they can have that styled character at a lower cost.

I… don’t follow the logic here.  The Body Morphs for Genesis 2 Female are (off sale) $20.  Genesis 2 works with the V5 uv’s.  So I can do a muscular female character using Genesis 2 Female without spending $40 (off sale) for Gia.  Yes, getting Gia is cheaper than getting V6 and the body morphs, but I don’t need V6 to use Genesis 2 Female.

True but G2F is more of a generic shape then Gia or V6.  G2F is nice as a base shape but Gia’s shape is far more defined.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 10:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Barubary - 18 July 2013 10:10 PM
dan.shive - 18 July 2013 04:18 PM

It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

Than maybe it’s because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they’re not heard.

That much is obvious. Granted, they’re posting in forums that the people in charge presumably don’t bother reading and the decisions are ultimately going to be based on revenue, so that feeling’s probably pretty accurate.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 11:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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So I shall share a quickie render of G2F with no acutal G2F morphs (other than the V4 morph for G2F). Mostly V4 morphs actually. I think I used a small amount of 1 Genesis morph, but I don’t recall….

Yep, her waist is too thing for “Real” and other issues with her arm muscle structure and such. But for a fantasy warrior woman that didn’t actually cost me any new funds, well, not too bad. and she was quick to dial in.

no SSS or anything fancy like that either. Crap, i hope i’m still on topic. lol

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Posted: 19 July 2013 02:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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I’ve already said what I needed to about the new figure. I wouldn’t be posting at all except that I’ve had a response from my general feedback that I thought might shed light on the situation.

The reason why Genesis 2 was split into two separate gender bases is simple, quality.

We learned after more than a year of content development on the original Genesis platform that it became a “lowest common denominator” for some PAs who developed content that did not include gender specific details.

The result was often clothing that did not look or work well on either the Gen 5 male or female figures due to the differences in the mesh and textures. Artifacts appeared such as stretching in the textures across the breasts on the females or extra/unnecessary geometry across the breasts, hips or glutes of the male.

By splitting the two bases, DAZ and PAs are able to develop content that is quite simply of significantly higher quality because it takes advantage of and leverages those gender specific details that are inherently realistic in the human figure.

DAZ will continue to work on ways to make DAZ content and enable PA content that is of the highest possible quality while enabling the versatility customers have come to enjoy due to the power of the Genesis platform.

It is possible that DAZ could enable the cross-gender versatility of Genesis 2 content by making use of opposite gender clones in autofit that would give the same kind of cross-gender versatility while preserving the gender specific quality on the figure for which the content was created.

As always DAZ strives to create the highest quality AND most versatile figures available.

I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions…it’s a pity that someone from DAZ didn’t post this to stop speculation. Much thanks goes to the person from DAZ who took the time to reply to my general feedback on Zendesk.

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Posted: 19 July 2013 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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dan.shive - 18 July 2013 10:59 PM
Barubary - 18 July 2013 10:10 PM
dan.shive - 18 July 2013 04:18 PM

It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

Than maybe it’s because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they’re not heard.

That much is obvious. Granted, they’re posting in forums that the people in charge presumably don’t bother reading and the decisions are ultimately going to be based on revenue, so that feeling’s probably pretty accurate.


HA, yeah, I guess you’re right :D

But I guess for many of us, it still feels better to voice our opinions anywhere than nowhere at all. And if the powers that be even take the smallest bit of input from the forums, it’s still not a complete waste.

The thing is, revenue only tells you so much. But on occasion you need some qualitative date to back up you quantitative information ^^

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Posted: 19 July 2013 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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The point of this thread is to discuss the merits of a Gender specific figure vs the merits of a completely unimesh figure.  Obviously each has their pro’s and cons.  The best part is that here at DAZ we have both.  The Genesis 1 figure isn’t disappearing, and as long as there is a market for Gensis content then I’m sure PA’s will deliver.  At the same time there are those who require a gender specific base for what they are trying to do, the splitting the base figures accomplishes that.  The decision to do separate male and female bases wasn’t one that was made lightly.  It was made after consulting PA’s, and listening to customer feedback.  The gender specific base allows the female figures to have rigging that is optimized for a female figure, the same is true for the male.  Content creators can create morphs that are gender specific rather than losing detail by trying to make them fit for both male and female.  Clothing fits better, and looks better when it is built on a gender specific base.

The Gia description was not a jab at those who prefer Genesis to Genesis 2 Female.  We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile, you will be able to combine her morph with other Genesis 2 Female morphs, and you will be able to use other Genesis 2 Female clothing and textures on her.

As for the phrase “most clothing, hair and textures” in the description, the most is there because not all G2F clothing items will have custom fit morphs for Gia.  PA’s decide which figures they will include custom fit morphs for.  When a clothing item doesn’t have a specific custom fit morph Studio will auto-project the morph (if you use the DSON importer you can use the ‘transfer active morphs’ function).  These auto-projected morphs are usually fine, however that is not always the case.  It would be presumptuous of us to assume that ALL future clothing for G2F will work perfectly on Gia.  I can guarantee that you will be able to at the very least fit all clothing to G2F and get an auto-projected fit morph for Gia.  In most cases it will look just fine.  Gia also has her own optimized UV set.  You can apply textures with other UV sets, but those UV sets aren’t optimized for Gia, and you may get some stretching in the texture.  That stretching won’t be noticeable to most though.  Finally props don’t auto-follow morphs.  If someone were to make a G2F hair that was a static prop, instead of conforming hair the hair might not work with Gia.  These issues aren’t new to Gia and existed with Genesis as well.

I hope we can begin talking about the merits of both Genesis and G2F, as well as discussing any of the drawbacks.  We at DAZ are interested in providing the highest quality figures we can, and any feedback is welcome and appreciated.

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