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Versatility vs specificity
Posted: 25 July 2013 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

. . . Generation 5 or Genesis brought all three of them together in to one mesh, so you could go from New born babe to the old haggard harridan, with the same mesh. You could even take a human and work through a series of steps to Werewolf or Mr. Hyde. without having to replace the base Geometry Figure, make sure you got it in the right spot. I agree this was a great leap forward in many areas.

I am not sure Genesis 2 Female breaks this like I said we won’t know that until Genesis 2 Male arrives, which I hope is very soon. As Holmes said, ‘It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.’ The point is the die is cast and the cloth wet, only after it is out of the bath will we know if the cloth is ruined or is saved . . .

::twitch!::  You said the s-word, now it’s gonna take forever!  D:

Like Jabba101 said earlier, trying to condense a point to its essence can leave out needed info, sorry.  So at the risk of going off-topic:  sex sells, and I have no objection to selling sex . . . okay, I can hear you guys snickering in the back, you know what I mean!  I have no objection to DAZ selling sexually attractive characters, I’d like to see more.  And yes, my objection is to DAZ’s balance point, but it’s not to DAZ showing most but not all of the assets involved:  it’s to DAZ selling what’s attractive to most straight men (and many lesbians) far in excess of what’s attractive to most straight women (and many gay guys).  What’s worse, DAZ is selling to the T&A fans at the expense of the rest of us:  because many T&A fans are squicked by the slightest hint of guy stuff or children getting too close to their sexual fantasies, our ability to show a loving couple snuggling in front of a fire or parents tucking their kids into bed has been severely eroded in the latest Genesis2 generation.

And before anybody pipes up with more exhortations to wait for the G2Male and G2Kid to show up before passing judgement:  why?  That they’re not here now is itself a huge part of the problem!  As for the rest of it, why should we wait till it’s too late to voice our concerns that we’re being dragged back to the bad old days of getting T&A months or years first, then the ability to depict men and kids as a far less-supported afterthought if at all?
 
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Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

I am aware there are people who decide to Boycott companies and products and others people are like sheep and follow the heard. So Apps like the Boycott app help them quickly get the message out to all the other sheep, as does Facebook. (Something I see as an invasion of my personal space is I am Boycotting Facebook, for those who care.) There is enough stratification in that regard over everything from bottle water to the clothes we wear. Some people don’t like leather other people believe it is the best thing since sliced bread with honey butter. If people are seriously looking at a tool to do 3D posing, then they are not going to let the front page of the website stop them at looking at the tool, or at least I hope people really aren’t that shallow.

Did you just call anyone who’d be discouraged by nearly relentless pageful after pageful of T&A “shallow”?  Like it or not, plenty of potential customers do care about various social issues, and won’t buy from companies that negatively impact them.  But I’m not trying to drag this down into a deeper-than-thou competition because that’s not the point:  to be a DAZ customer you don’t have to care about 3D tools, seriously or otherwise!  To be a DAZ customer* you need to care about making art.  Erotic art, profound art, funny art, tragic art, whatever.  It doesn’t matter what you want to do it with, the tools sold here just make it easier, you don’t have to care about them.  So yeah, people who care about the harm caused to others by skewed sexualization are likely to be put off by a company apparently selling that.

* Of course, to be a DAZ customer you also need some free time, access to a computer, and spendable cash.

Whoops, edited to add:  I won’t touch Facebook either, and I’m not on Twitter — I’m on tumblr, LiveJournal, Dreamwidth, g+, and deviantART.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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MallenLane - 24 July 2013 11:52 PM

<snip of very helpful details>

Having a default female base gives a good set of landmarks and references for:

-The bend points of the rigging.
-The basic volumes being moved by the rigging.
-The basic topology flow that can be followed for every subsequent female without having to make each a large deviation from the base itself.
-A consistent set of landmarks for detail placement on clothing, which for the reasons above will end up staying in place more reliably.

I get this… except for the remark about volumes being moved by the rigging. That would have been true with falloff zones, etc., but with weight maps, isn’t it really surface being moved by the rigging? I’m not trying to quibble over words here, I’m just trying to understand how this works.

Also, would making all Genesis Original female figures start from Genesis Basic Female have been a viable option to get the same “landmarks”?

Will the weight maps of G2M be different than G2F? Is that part of the anticipated improvement of separate gender figures? Do you think there will likely be a child figure, again with the same mesh, but possibly with different weight maps?

I realize that it feels to you like you’re answering the same questions over and over, but I glean more understanding every time you post, and I really appreciate your explanations.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 03:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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MallenLane - 24 July 2013 11:52 PM

I told myself i wasn’t going to post anymore, because I feel like I’m addressing the same things over and over, but…

I really have no idea where this thing about G2F and G2m using different meshes came from; they don’t. I do cut for both genders simultaneously when modeling. The details for the male are already in there.

Rigging acts on the base shape, and nothing else. No matter what you morph the mesh into, the rigging is still at the bottom of a stack of deforms (Base>Rigging>Morphs), and is operating according to that root shape. That can at times lock you into having to keep certain topology spacing, positioning, and basic volumes and shapes. The bend point happens to that expected base shape, and no matter where you move the joint center, that will still be the bend point as far as the weights are concerned.

I’ve seen the idea of swapping or custom weights for each morph mentioned. That has come up before , and it’s a bad idea. Rigging is already one of the most time consuming aspects of clothing creation. A move to custom blended weights would increase that workload exponentially.

Topology flow, in the instance being talked about here, is mostly referring to spacing and detail spacial coherence; e.g. the nipple not being rotated around the curve of a breast, or the abs not pulled up higher than the obliques, a different part of the arm being used to sculpt an elbow, or things pinched too tightly together. All these topology flow situations (i actually call it topology drift) have an effect on clothing, and too much deviation from the base causes clothing to distort, crush, smear, etc. This again, locks you into a certain spacing and use of the topology, dictated entirely by the base shape.

Then we get into deviation between extreme shapes. The base shape is like a road map, with landmarks, but not every shape is made with, or can be made with, minimal drift. And if every character used the exact volumes and lack of topology drift, well they would all look rather generic. So you deviate. The distance between the Genesis base, and a true female shape is rather wide from a topological spacing point of view; and there is no default set of female landmarks; meaning female characters can deviate quite a bit.

This can turn clothing creation into a slight guessing game. Is the line of this dress going to end up in the same place as I think? What about on this morph? Oh, the spacing used to create the breast for this character (from scratch on every shape, so topology drift deviation is just how it goes) is different; is crushing, expanding, smearing my clothing shape. Or the seam that was supposed to be under the breast line, is now partially on it.

Having a default female base gives a good set of landmarks and references for:

-The bend points of the rigging.
-The basic volumes being moved by the rigging.
-The basic topology flow that can be followed for every subsequent female without having to make each a large deviation from the base itself.
-A consistent set of landmarks for detail placement on clothing, which for the reasons above will end up staying in place more reliably.

I suspect the next question will be: then how did Genesis get so many items that magically worked? The answer is not magic, but a lot of correctives and a lot of feature and detail compromises. That’s the price of its flexibility.

I do appreciate you taking the time to comment, and I’m sure everybody else does too.  Perhaps some of your posts were swallowed-up in the forums as they weren’t “official” company statements.

There are some things you’ve confirmed that I’d only been guessing at before, so i must’ve missed some of them e.g. as it had been repeated often enough, I thought two separate male/female meshes were on the cards and couldn’t understand that decision considering the lack of improvement to other elements.  Sadly, when a company fails to communicate with its customers, gossip will fill the void.  So thanks again for clarifying this.

The rest becomes semantics, perception, and interpretation.  Improved figure - for the company - for the customer - for the content creator… an improvement for one does not automatically mean it’s an improvement for all.  So it’s up to each individual to decide if it’s enough of an improvement to merit its adoption.

Despite the concentration on the perceived negative aspects of Genesis 2, V6 & Gia are by far the best default shapes I’ve seen from DAZ, so please don’t be thinking we don’t like them, they’re great pieces of work.  We’re just customers wanting our hard-earned cash to go a far as we can make it, and wrestling with why we can’t have our cake and eat it.  The thought of buying two of everything like the pre-Genesis days suddenly makes our wallets wince.

Hindsight is a great thing, I know, and what’s done is done.  The company did not exactly manage customer expectation.  We were to expect “better & improved” and so looked for something special, something with ‘wow factor’.  But this also requires content creators to up their game e.g. dresses/flowing outfits using auto-follow but with no added movement controls don’t cut it, but equally got nothing to do with the base character they’re for.  Sorry, but no amount of improvements to a base mesh will give a flowing costume a good look if it’s only auto-follow - this is a prime example of how content creators will fail to convince customers that the improvements were worth the gender split (and let’s face it, most people render dressed characters, not nudes - the costumes need to match the figure’s quality).

Given the above, my question is more concerning content creators - Since the improved items have clearly not yet hit the store, do we have an E.T.A. of when to expect these improved products that Genesis 2 Female has enabled content creators to make?  ...If they don’t start hitting the store soon, it should come as no surprise if customers start to think the benefits of Genesis 2 might have been a wee bit exaggerated.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 03:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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MallenLane - 24 July 2013 11:52 PM

I told myself i wasn’t going to post anymore, because I feel like I’m addressing the same things over and over, but…

I really have no idea where this thing about G2F and G2m using different meshes came from; they don’t. I do cut for both genders simultaneously when modeling. The details for the male are already in there.

Rigging acts on the base shape, and nothing else. No matter what you morph the mesh into, the rigging is still at the bottom of a stack of deforms (Base>Rigging>Morphs), and is operating according to that root shape. That can at times lock you into having to keep certain topology spacing, positioning, and basic volumes and shapes. The bend point happens to that expected base shape, and no matter where you move the joint center, that will still be the bend point as far as the weights are concerned.


I’m glad that you posted again; that was the key point that I was missing, that it was the rigging that was being addressed more than the mesh itself. Thanks for explaining it again, and so clearly.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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KickAir 8P - 25 July 2013 02:50 PM
Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

. . . Generation 5 or Genesis brought all three of them together in to one mesh, so you could go from New born babe to the old haggard harridan, with the same mesh. You could even take a human and work through a series of steps to Werewolf or Mr. Hyde. without having to replace the base Geometry Figure, make sure you got it in the right spot. I agree this was a great leap forward in many areas.

I am not sure Genesis 2 Female breaks this like I said we won’t know that until Genesis 2 Male arrives, which I hope is very soon. As Holmes said, ‘It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.’ The point is the die is cast and the cloth wet, only after it is out of the bath will we know if the cloth is ruined or is saved . . .

::twitch!::  You said the s-word, now it’s gonna take forever!  D:

Like Jabba101 said earlier, trying to condense a point to its essence can leave out needed info, sorry.  So at the risk of going off-topic:  sex sells, and I have no objection to selling sex . . . okay, I can hear you guys snickering in the back, you know what I mean!  I have no objection to DAZ selling sexually attractive characters, I’d like to see more.  And yes, my objection is to DAZ’s balance point, but it’s not to DAZ showing most but not all of the assets involved:  it’s to DAZ selling what’s attractive to most straight men (and many lesbians) far in excess of what’s attractive to most straight women (and many gay guys).  What’s worse, DAZ is selling to the T&A fans at the expense of the rest of us:  because many T&A fans are squicked by the slightest hint of guy stuff or children getting too close to their sexual fantasies, our ability to show a loving couple snuggling in front of a fire or parents tucking their kids into bed has been severely eroded in the latest Genesis2 generation.

And before anybody pipes up with more exhortations to wait for the G2Male and G2Kid to show up before passing judgement:  why?  That they’re not here now is itself a huge part of the problem!  As for the rest of it, why should we wait till it’s too late to voice our concerns that we’re being dragged back to the bad old days of getting T&A months or years first, then the ability to depict men and kids as a far less-supported afterthought if at all?
 
.

Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

I am aware there are people who decide to Boycott companies and products and others people are like sheep and follow the heard. So Apps like the Boycott app help them quickly get the message out to all the other sheep, as does Facebook. (Something I see as an invasion of my personal space is I am Boycotting Facebook, for those who care.) There is enough stratification in that regard over everything from bottle water to the clothes we wear. Some people don’t like leather other people believe it is the best thing since sliced bread with honey butter. If people are seriously looking at a tool to do 3D posing, then they are not going to let the front page of the website stop them at looking at the tool, or at least I hope people really aren’t that shallow.

Did you just call anyone who’d be discouraged by nearly relentless pageful after pageful of T&A “shallow”?  Like it or not, plenty of potential customers do care about various social issues, and won’t buy from companies that negatively impact them.  But I’m not trying to drag this down into a deeper-than-thou competition because that’s not the point:  to be a DAZ customer you don’t have to care about 3D tools, seriously or otherwise!  To be a DAZ customer* you need to care about making art.  Erotic art, profound art, funny art, tragic art, whatever.  It doesn’t matter what you want to do it with, the tools sold here just make it easier, you don’t have to care about them.  So yeah, people who care about the harm caused to others by skewed sexualization are likely to be put off by a company apparently selling that.

* Of course, to be a DAZ customer you also need some free time, access to a computer, and spendable cash.

Whoops, edited to add:  I won’t touch Facebook either, and I’m not on Twitter — I’m on tumblr, LiveJournal, Dreamwidth, g+, and deviantART.

I apologize for my use of shallow, but I am a tech and as a Tech, I tend to ignore the flash and look at the tool.
DAZ Studio is a Tool after all just like Photoshop or Poser and I will leave this topic at that point.

As to the Genesis 2 set of figures and all of the generations of Figures: I see all the figures as moldable clay actors, each having their place on the stage. Genesis 2 is just another clay actor, or series of actors, to be placed on the stage. Each has their technical merits for use. If I had a large crowd scene of people milling about I could use Michael 1 for those people in the far background. I again say we will not know the Technical Merits of the Genesis 2 Family until see have all the information. And this is where I am going to leave this topic.

Haslor

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Posted: 25 July 2013 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

Yes, yes, I agree the whole “Sex is what keeps the fashion industry finding new and interesting ways to display the Human Female.” But I find it interesting that in the rest of Nature it is normally the Males who are more colorful and strutting their stuff.

Not “normally,” by any means. Consider spiders, for example. (Yes, let’s be spiders.)

Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)

It’s actually because more women are wearing the correct bra size now.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 25 July 2013 05:31 PM
Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

Yes, yes, I agree the whole “Sex is what keeps the fashion industry finding new and interesting ways to display the Human Female.” But I find it interesting that in the rest of Nature it is normally the Males who are more colorful and strutting their stuff.

Not “normally,” by any means. Consider spiders, for example. (Yes, let’s be spiders.)

Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:13 PM

While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)

It’s actually because more women are wearing the correct bra size now.

Female spiders are DEADLY. Don’t ask, just take it as fact.

That is good to know, I would hate to think there were enough breast augmentations happening to sway the figures that much.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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Sorry if these have already been brought iup (too impatient to read page 8 yet)
While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)
I’d say it’s the result of skyrocketing obesity rates, actually—even though a 34 to 36 isn’t that big of a difference.  There’s also a concern (so far either disproven or inconclusive from studies) that hormones in beef and milk (given to cows to make them produce more milk) could be affecting female breast size and earlier puberty rates, and contributing to the falling fertility in males, esp. in the US that cannot be explained away merely by rising obesity rates.  (Male sperm count is falling worldwide, BTW, and not just in the US or industrialized countries.)

I have stated several times, I would like to see Victoria sized to match a more Average Woman. In the US that is a woman is 5’ 3.7 (162 centimeters) tall and weighs 152 pounds (69 kilograms). This corresponds to a Body Mass Index of 26.3 kilograms/meters² and wears a size 14. Reby Sky is more “Normal” in that regard. I think Victoria is the product of the Barbie Model mentality, which took hold in the sixties. before that models were more average. Heck my grandmother was a model in New York City, in the 1910’s, and she was no waif. Today most Mainstream models range form 5’9” to 5’11”, with outer fringe being 5’8” to 6” with the extremely rare exception down to 5’5” and as tall as 6’1”. They are Thin - puts weight at 108 to 130lbs in proportional to height. This puts dress size 6-8 with the desired figure around 34B-24-34.

The male characters are similar, actually, though to a lesser degree.  IIRC Michael 3 is 6 feet tall, while Michael 4 is 6’2 or 6’3 *or maybe it’s the other way around…).  6’2 is prettymuch the equivalent of 5’8 in females.  And like the ladies, they possess that same tall, strapping hero build you so commonly see in comics, fantasy art, and the like, even when the men don’t look like they’re on steroids.  M3 and M4 look close to your average male, but their base forms, like V3 and V4 base, are not what are popular—the popular forms are the chiseled morphs with a 6-pack and a full jaw.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 09:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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Haslor - 25 July 2013 01:23 PM

There is a host of changes a human body goes through between the age of 3 and 17 for males and 3 and 13 for females. (Most females reach their full height by the age of 13.) I found it very difficult to take Genesis down to the size of a third grader and not have an issue with some body parts being out of proportion.

Now to be honest, I have to say that was before Handspan Studios and Thorne released their Genesis Body Morph Resource Kit 2 and I haven’t tried again. It allows for controlling some of the problem areas. I am also glad to see they are releasing these kits again for Genesis 2 Female.

Arm, Torso, and Leg Lengths.
Head, Hand, and Foot Propagating Scales
Sternum Depth
(all of the above in base or Evolution)
Hip Small (Resource Kit 1)
Straight Torso (Resource Kit 2)

These are the keys to most of my recent work with younger characters.  Sparing touches of Basic Child are also occasionally useful, but in general, I prefer to avoid it entirely.

opal42987 - 25 July 2013 09:11 PM

Sorry if these have already been brought iup (too impatient to read page 8 yet)
While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)
I’d say it’s the result of skyrocketing obesity rates, actually—even though a 34 to 36 isn’t that big of a difference.  There’s also a concern (so far either disproven or inconclusive from studies) that hormones in beef and milk (given to cows to make them produce more milk) could be affecting female breast size and earlier puberty rates, and contributing to the falling fertility in males, esp. in the US that cannot be explained away merely by rising obesity rates.  (Male sperm count is falling worldwide, BTW, and not just in the US or industrialized countries.)

The beef and milk are just the tip of the iceberg. There are all sorts of estrogens and estrogen-like substances being dumped into the world around us, from fillers in plastics to drug residues in drinking water.  I suspect future generations will have the same opinion of us for this that we have of the Romans’ use of lead plumbing.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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opal42987 - 25 July 2013 09:11 PM

Sorry if these have already been brought iup (too impatient to read page 8 yet)
While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)
I’d say it’s the result of skyrocketing obesity rates, actually—even though a 34 to 36 isn’t that big of a difference.  There’s also a concern (so far either disproven or inconclusive from studies) that hormones in beef and milk (given to cows to make them produce more milk) could be affecting female breast size and earlier puberty rates, and contributing to the falling fertility in males, esp. in the US that cannot be explained away merely by rising obesity rates.  (Male sperm count is falling worldwide, BTW, and not just in the US or industrialized countries.)

I have stated several times, I would like to see Victoria sized to match a more Average Woman. In the US that is a woman is 5’ 3.7 (162 centimeters) tall and weighs 152 pounds (69 kilograms). This corresponds to a Body Mass Index of 26.3 kilograms/meters² and wears a size 14. Reby Sky is more “Normal” in that regard. I think Victoria is the product of the Barbie Model mentality, which took hold in the sixties. before that models were more average. Heck my grandmother was a model in New York City, in the 1910’s, and she was no waif. Today most Mainstream models range form 5’9” to 5’11”, with outer fringe being 5’8” to 6” with the extremely rare exception down to 5’5” and as tall as 6’1”. They are Thin - puts weight at 108 to 130lbs in proportional to height. This puts dress size 6-8 with the desired figure around 34B-24-34.

The male characters are similar, actually, though to a lesser degree.  IIRC Michael 3 is 6 feet tall, while Michael 4 is 6’2 or 6’3 *or maybe it’s the other way around…).  6’2 is prettymuch the equivalent of 5’8 in females.  And like the ladies, they possess that same tall, strapping hero build you so commonly see in comics, fantasy art, and the like, even when the men don’t look like they’re on steroids.  M3 and M4 look close to your average male, but their base forms, like V3 and V4 base, are not what are popular—the popular forms are the chiseled morphs with a 6-pack and a full jaw.

Obesity might be the answer but it would also increase the band size of the Bra, not just the cup size. (for guys the number is the band size), but but the Milk hormones might cause the change from 34B to 34DD. I agree with Agent_Unaware buying the proper size could also affect the numbers.

Actually according to this site, http://ahundredyearsago.com/2012/02/06/average-height-for-males-and-females-in-1912-and-2012/ the average american Male is 5” 9.9”  or 177.55cm. so Michael is a lot closer to the Average than Victoria is to the Average Female.

On this page you will find a chart for people around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height .

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Posted: 25 July 2013 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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opal42987 - 25 July 2013 09:11 PM

Sorry if these have already been brought iup (too impatient to read page 8 yet)
While researching this answer I learned a very interesting fact. The Bra industry states the average Bra size has increased from 34B to 34DD in the last twenty years. I have to ask myself, Is that change a Natural increase, because it would mean there was a radical change in human genetics, in less than one generation. But then I remembered it could be due very unnatural change of breast augmentation. (I will leave my opinions about that out of this.)
I’d say it’s the result of skyrocketing obesity rates, actually—even though a 34 to 36 isn’t that big of a difference.  There’s also a concern (so far either disproven or inconclusive from studies) that hormones in beef and milk (given to cows to make them produce more milk) could be affecting female breast size and earlier puberty rates, and contributing to the falling fertility in males, esp. in the US that cannot be explained away merely by rising obesity rates.  (Male sperm count is falling worldwide, BTW, and not just in the US or industrialized countries.)

It really is mostly women choosing the right bra size.

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Posted: 25 July 2013 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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I actually wondered if perhaps that had something to do with it, as I was aware that, at least 10 years ago, itr was statistically known that most women chose bra sizes too small.

(and let’s face it, most people render dressed characters, not nudes - the costumes need to match the figure’s quality).
Something just dawned on me—perhaps part of the reason that so many clothing models for Genesis 2 have been meh is that she hasn’t been out long enough for PAs to make good clothing for (unless they got early access to her, but I doubt it).  Therefore, most of what we’ve seen so far doesn’t have the effort and time devoted to it that the good stuff has, esp. since the Sickle Breast Fixer has only now just been released for Genesis 2, and the Sickle Rigging System hasn’t been added for Genesis 2 yet.

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Posted: 26 July 2013 12:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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KickAir 8P - 25 July 2013 09:26 AM
Haslor - 25 July 2013 03:59 AM

. . . Sometimes companies have to make choices, pick a direction, and step out. Some times they find greatness and other times they are never heard from again. if they are good they make course corrections and stay on the wave. What makes it good or bad is the voice of the consumer . . . So while I enjoy genesis, even with all of it ubiquity, it might be a little gender diversity in the gene pool could be a good things. I agree with Mattymanx we are judging the merits of the book by only looking at the front cover; until we flip it over and see the back (Genesis2 Male) and read the introduction and maybe page 99 and 185, we can’t really tell what all of the benefits and pitfalls will be . . .

I joined up June 8th, 2005 — I’ve dropped out for a few months a couple of times, but aside from that I’ve been using DAZ-Studio to make my art and have been active in this community for nine years.  I got V3 that day in a DAZ|Studio beta, and M3 that weekend.  I can’t tell you how much money I’ve spent on this site since then because I’m terrified of adding it up.  Despite that, I want to keep spending here, because DAZ comes closest to making the art supplies I need and has the potential to do even better.

I’m not willing to shrug my shoulders and fatalistically wait to see how this falls out (especially since I vividly remember how the pre-Genesis gender-split lines worked out).  I want DAZ to not only survive but thrive in a market full of potential customers who are increasingly aware of social justice issues, and who are buying accordingly.  Genesis1 was a huge step in the right direction — by releasing a figure that had male, female, and child options from day one it partially broke the male gaze privilege of female figures getting earlier releases and fuller accessory support.  I’d hoped the trend was going to continue to the point where I could confidently promote this site without being undermined by the obvious gender imbalance, but the G2F betrayed that.

Yes, female characters and their sexualized skimpwear sell better to the current customer base since it’s heavy on the T&A fans, bless ‘em.  But any T&A fans willing to invest the time, effort, and money into 3D art are here already, there are very few left out there to attract.  DAZ’s untapped markets are largely made up of people who want to make art that they don’t currently have the skill or time to make, and who already spend the bulk of their free time on their computers.  Gamers are an obvious market segment to pursue, but DAZ has had trouble making inroads with them since they’re more likely to photoshop screenshots than invest in incompatible software and content.  Who else?

The fandom communities are huge, and are mostly women who already make and share fanfic and fanart — a perfect potential customer base.  But they’re strongly networked with each other and with the activist communities, and are unlikely to buy art supplies from a company that can’t (or worse, demonstrably won’t) provide up-to-date tools to depict an unbiased range of humanity.  Any of them who come to the site for the first time today, what do they see?  A splash screen and then a main store page skewed heavily to buxom women in skimpy or skin-tight sexualized outfits, muscly-men depicting male power fantasies, and a couple of horror-movie sets.

Not only would the vast majority close the browser tab right there, but anybody going deeper would find the forums, where any like-minded current customers are being relentlessly beaten down with variations of the tired old “sex sells” excuse.  Yes, sex sells, to the current T&A market.  Is that enough?  Because blatantly skewing the store towards that market locks DAZ out of a world of lucrative opportunities.

...thank you.

I’m in this from two angles, as a storyteller and a lover of fan art.  I’ve already pretty much said my peace on more “everyday” (for lack of another term) clothing. I’m not into erotic fantasy, or titillating “club” clothing, I want something I can dress my Leela, Tracey, Mum Grande, Lady Emma characters in that they would be comfortable strolling the streets of 2060 London in (while not showing off their navels and cleavage - wait, Leela and Tracey have no cleavage, my bad).

On the Fan Art side, I totally love the Cyberpunk genre, but have yet to see good “ware” (as we call it) for Genesis. Items like Data jacks, Chip slots, Cyber limbs (that work for both male and female characters), eyes, wires, weapon implants, and such. Yeah, I know one can use the Bot stuff in a pinch, but it really isn’t quite the same. We have a plethora of Steam Punk clothing and props, but the “Cyber counterpart” is quite lacking. 

And getting back to the “skankwear” topic, I’m sorry, but cyber or futuristic assassins do not run around in brightly coloured overly revealing clothing, they wear stuff that supports their stealth and hiding abilities as well as protects them should they be discovered.  Street Sams (a type of character from the Shadowrun world), wear armoured clothing that protects the “soft zones” not exposes them. Gut shots are the worst and usually often fatal so why would someone be running around the backstreets with their belly fully exposed (which is a fairly easy target to hit, especially with enhanced targeting systems)?

...and that goes for the police/security teams as well.

Why? Because it’s “sexy” and will sell.


...sorry, wrong answer.

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Posted: 20 August 2013 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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Today the Girl6 for G2F is out, before we see a single Genesis2 male figure from DAZ.  And it also includes “to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis” in the promo blurb, even though, unlike Genesis, the G2F base was deliberately designed to exclude half of the human race and thereby gives no more than half the versatility of Genesis, if that.

Good news is that two of the four new hairs today (why only two?) are also for Genesis and some of the Mil4s: Loyce Hair and Filippa Hair.

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Posted: 20 August 2013 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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DAZ Girl 6 product page - 20 August 2013 12:05 AM

...Because she is based on the Genesis 2 Female base, she can share most clothing, hair and morphs with Victoria 6 and other Genesis 2 Female figures to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis…

Well, when taken in context of the complete sentence, the ability to mix-and-match G2F shapes together is clearly the versatility to which it refers. 

Will we ever be able to mix-and-match male shapes too?  We don’t know because G2M is still nothing more than a rumour in the backrooms of DAZ HQ, but I’m guessing not or there wouldn’t be a gender split.  Chances are, we’d be relying on a PA to come up with a bridging function between the two.

Also, even after G2M/M6/F6/H6/D6 etc etc get released, we’ll presumably still be using Genesis 1 for most of our monster shapes… or will there be a G2Universal released after G2M that can officially bridge G2F/M and allow access to monster UV’s?  I would love to know what DAZ is planning.

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