What would be the steps (workflow) be to create a Genesis NearMe?

Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
edited July 2013 in The Commons

Hi all,

Like the title says, I'd like to know what would be needed/best for making a nearMe morph for genesis.

NearMe is a pretty iconic figure in my mind, and has not seen any serious attention for a long while. Sure, a few dedicated artists still make stuff for her, but there is no support for the actual character.

I was more than happy to use her during the v4 era, but as I get more and more spoiled by Genesis, I notice the older technology more and more. That being said, I think I am willing to make a substantial time commitment to creating a passable nearMe FBM for Genesis.

My first thought was to find a way to increase nearMe's poly count or decrease genesis' poly count to match and then just to the import obj morph target thing, but I feel that that might not work out as easily as I think.

So, can anybody suggest a workflow and programs I can use to do this? I'd really like to be able to somehow use nearMe's body as a morph target for Genesis' mesh but I doubt it is actually possible.

For example: Does Decimator allow you to choose the poly count you "decimate" to? If so, would decimating to nearme's poly count and then using nearme as a morph target work?


Edit: clarified about usage "with v4" being in the v4 era.

Post edited by Paradigm67 on
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Comments

  • temporal.rangertemporal.ranger Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    If you have a V4 morph for her (it sounds like you do?), you can just transfer it to Genesis using GenX: http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x

    You'll also need the V4 shape for Genesis if you don't already have it.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Oh, no, I'm sorry I didn't mean WITH v4 I meant in the v4 era, where the difference between the model technology wasn't as noticeable. Is there a v4 nearme morph?

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited July 2013

    You don't need to decrease polycount to get a morph of NearMe into Genesis. You just need to sculp Genesis into a NearMe.
    Morph Loader, if you'd try to load the original NearMe into Genesis will never work - even if you same number of vertexes their order will be different. Simpler just to sculpt or try to use Transfer Utility.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    You don't need to decrease polycount to get a morph of NearMe into Genesis. You just need to sculp Genesis into a NearMe.
    Morph Loader, if you'd try to load the original NearMe into Genesis will never work - even if you same number of vertexes their order will be different. Simpler just to sculpt or try to use Transfer Utility.

    So the only real option is to actually edit the mesh manually in a modelling application?

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    You don't need to decrease polycount to get a morph of NearMe into Genesis. You just need to sculp Genesis into a NearMe.
    Morph Loader, if you'd try to load the original NearMe into Genesis will never work - even if you same number of vertexes their order will be different. Simpler just to sculpt or try to use Transfer Utility.

    So the only real option is to actually edit the mesh manually in a modelling application?

    Is the best option and most powerful. May take some time, but would be worth it if you really like the character that much. There are a lot of tools out there to pick from.

    Not sure how you would use the transfer utility in this case. But if that actually worked that would be pretty amazing. Not sure it's possible with my limited knowledge of the transfer utility.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    You don't need to decrease polycount to get a morph of NearMe into Genesis. You just need to sculp Genesis into a NearMe.
    Morph Loader, if you'd try to load the original NearMe into Genesis will never work - even if you same number of vertexes their order will be different. Simpler just to sculpt or try to use Transfer Utility.

    So the only real option is to actually edit the mesh manually in a modelling application?

    Is the best option and most powerful. May take some time, but would be worth it if you really like the character that much. There are a lot of tools out there to pick from.

    Not sure how you would use the transfer utility in this case. But if that actually worked that would be pretty amazing. Not sure it's possible with my limited knowledge of the transfer utility.

    Yeah, I'll have to see what I can do.

  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 7,482
    edited December 1969

    One of the great things about Genesis is that if you have enough morphs you can approximate many things.
    This is mostly Hitomi with some Basic Child and other Head and Body morph tweaks, just using the morph sliders I had available.
    Is it an exact copy? Of course not, but about an hour's work yielded this and I could have done more adjusting and come even "nearme-er".
    You can do this, too. I encourage you to experiment.

    Nearme.jpg
    800 x 1000 - 362K
  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    One of the great things about Genesis is that if you have enough morphs you can approximate many things.
    This is mostly Hitomi with some Basic Child and other Head and Body morph tweaks, just using the morph sliders I had available.
    Is it an exact copy? Of course not, but about an hour's work yielded this and I could have done more adjusting and come even "nearme-er".
    You can do this, too. I encourage you to experiment.

    This is actually kind of what I had in mind. I plan to spend a couple hours making a figure as close as possible in DS with the morphs I have. Once I get it close, I'll export it to a modeler and do the more specific tweeks. I actually used Hitomi for a few renders and recreated nearme's eyes so that you can use them in genesis. I'm excited to give it a whack when I get home.

    ..Any chance you'd want be willing to say which morphs you used? :D

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited July 2013

    tjohn said:

    You can do this, too. I encourage you to experiment.

    Not bad. I'd use the Hitomi cheek morphs to fatten them up a bit, or maybe it's just the angle of them. But either way that's pretty good pass at it.


    This is actually kind of what I had in mind. I plan to spend a couple hours making a figure as close as possible in DS with the morphs I have. Once I get it close, I'll export it to a modeler and do the more specific tweeks.

    That's a good approach, but some morphs aren't symmetrical and sometimes that does cause issues when you export to a modeling app if you want to keep symmetry. Maybe it's only a very small amount of morphs that aren't symmentrical, and I think even then it's an accident but I have run into this myself.

    Also if you go this route be sure don't redistribute the wrong content on accident (if you had any intention on sharing). While there are some merchant resource morphs out there I don't think Hitomi is one, so you don't want to accidently give her away when sharing your custom shape. This may not matter at all, but if you came out with close enough shape I bet a lot of people would ask you for it.

    People ask me all the time for my shapes and I always have to tell them NO. Not to sidetrack to much...

    The challenge I always have is getting the eyes right. If the eyes aren't exactly right it doesn't work...With all the morphs in the world I still can't get those anime eyes to be the same. And when it comes to modelling/sculpting/morphing I'm good with bodies, terrible with faces.

    Good luck!

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 7,482
    edited December 1969

    Hitomi=1.0
    and see image below.

    Make sure Hitomi's breast shapes are=0

    I also used some of the Subsurface Toon Shaders on the eyes and skin.

    The Nearme hair reminds me of Nata Toon Hair (which I don't own)
    I'm assuming you have an affection for the figure, and just want to dress her up in Genesis clothes and poses, which is cool.

    Nearme.jpg
    391 x 981 - 192K
  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 7,482
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:

    You can do this, too. I encourage you to experiment.

    Not bad. I'd use the Hitomi cheek morphs to fatten them up a bit, or maybe it's just the angle of them. But either way that's pretty good pass at it.


    This is actually kind of what I had in mind. I plan to spend a couple hours making a figure as close as possible in DS with the morphs I have. Once I get it close, I'll export it to a modeler and do the more specific tweeks.

    That's a good approach, but some morphs aren't symmetrical and sometimes that does cause issues when you export to a modeling app if you want to keep symmetry. Maybe it's only a very small amount of morphs that aren't symmentrical, and I think even then it's an accident but I have run into this myself.

    Also if you go this route be sure don't redistribute the wrong content on accident (if you had any intention on sharing). While there are some merchant resource morphs out there I don't think Hitomi is one, so you don't want to accidently give her away when sharing your custom shape. This may not matter at all, but if you came out with close enough shape I bet a lot of people would ask you for it.

    People ask me all the time for my shapes and I always have to tell them NO. Not to sidetrack to much...

    The challenge I always have is getting the eyes right. If the eyes aren't exactly right it doesn't work...With all the morphs in the world I still can't get those anime eyes to be the same. And when it comes to modelling/sculpting/morphing I'm good with bodies, terrible with faces.

    Good luck!


    But sharing a few morph setting numbers here is OK, though, right?
    If not, I'll delete.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969


    People ask me all the time for my shapes and I always have to tell them NO. Not to sidetrack to much...

    The challenge I always have is getting the eyes right. If the eyes aren't exactly right it doesn't work...With all the morphs in the world I still can't get those anime eyes to be the same. And when it comes to modelling/sculpting/morphing I'm good with bodies, terrible with faces.

    Good luck!

    If you own nearme, hide everything on her head except the eyes and you'll see that they are actually weird oval-planes. I created my own similar ones and have them parented to Genesis' eyes and made them un-selectable. Works like a charm once you get them to not clip the face.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited July 2013

    tjohn said:

    But sharing a few morph setting numbers here is OK, though, right?
    If not, I'll delete.

    Numbers are ok, You are perfectly fine.

    I just meant if someone made a morph that had some hitomi they couldn't share that morph if they did it the wrong way. This only matters if you tweak externally.

    For example you can't Dial in hitomi, send to hexagon, tweak it, send back to Daz and share that morph UNLESS you tell it to "reverse deformations" via the morph loader. What the "reverse deformations" does is make it where your morph is only the changes you made in hexagon, as opposed to including the hitomi shape as well.

    So to use your morph to the fullest they would also want to buy hitomi. That is all.

    Just like when you buy Anstasia for Aiko5, you need Aiko5 for it to work. Our Genesis NearMe that is based on Hitomi should require someone to own Hitomi, and we shouldn't make the morph in such a way that it does not. Unless we do NOT base it on hitomi to begin with.

    Again tjohn, your method is perfectly fine. Just Advising the OP because he wants to tweak externally and that is were technically you can accidently give away hitomi!

    @ Paradigm67 Thanks for the tip.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    tjohn said:

    You can do this, too. I encourage you to experiment.

    I’m assuming you have an affection for the figure, and just want to dress her up in Genesis clothes and poses, which is cool.

    ...

    Not bad. I'd use the Hitomi cheek morphs to fatten them up a bit, or maybe it's just the angle of them. But either way that's pretty good pass at it.


    This is actually kind of what I had in mind. I plan to spend a couple hours making a figure as close as possible in DS with the morphs I have. Once I get it close, I'll export it to a modeler and do the more specific tweeks.

    That's a good approach, but some morphs aren't symmetrical and sometimes that does cause issues when you export to a modeling app if you want to keep symmetry. Maybe it's only a very small amount of morphs that aren't symmentrical, and I think even then it's an accident but I have run into this myself.

    Also if you go this route be sure don't redistribute the wrong content on accident (if you had any intention on sharing). While there are some merchant resource morphs out there I don't think Hitomi is one, so you don't want to accidently give her away when sharing your custom shape. This may not matter at all, but if you came out with close enough shape I bet a lot of people would ask you for it.

    People ask me all the time for my shapes and I always have to tell them NO. Not to sidetrack to much...

    The challenge I always have is getting the eyes right. If the eyes aren't exactly right it doesn't work...With all the morphs in the world I still can't get those anime eyes to be the same. And when it comes to modelling/sculpting/morphing I'm good with bodies, terrible with faces.

    Good luck!


    But sharing a few morph setting numbers here is OK, though, right?
    If not, I'll delete.

    Yeah, it's exactly that. NearMe was the first figure I ever used, and I have a fairly large V4/Genesis wardrobe now that I'd like to be able to use with her, as well as the stated desire for a "higher tech" nearme.

    As for sharing the dialing, that's totally fine. It's only useful for those of us who own the products. I happen to own Hitomi, so I can use the dial, but if someone else doesn't, they can't do anything with it.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:

    But sharing a few morph setting numbers here is OK, though, right?
    If not, I'll delete.

    Numbers are ok, You are perfectly fine.

    I just meant if someone made a morph that had some hitomi they couldn't share that morph if they did it the wrong way. This only matters if you tweak externally.

    For example you can't Dial in hitomi, send to hexagon, tweak it, send back to Daz and share that morph UNLESS you tell it to "reverse deformations" via the morph loader. What the "reverse deformations" does is make it where your morph is only the changes you made in hexagon, as opposed to including the hitomi shape as well.

    So to use your morph to the fullest they would also want to buy hitomi. That is all.

    Just like when you buy Anstasia for Aiko5, you need Aiko5 for it to work. Our Genesis NearMe that is based on Hitomi should require someone to own Hitomi, and we shouldn't make the morph in such a way that it does not. Unless we do NOT base it on hitomi to begin with.

    Again tjohn, your method is perfectly fine. Just Advising the OP because he wants to tweak externally and that is were technically you can accidently give away hitomi!


    If I get a working NearMe, that's exactly my plan, to keep it as independent from other's products as I can and then have a list of dependencies.

  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 7,482
    edited December 1969

    Glad I could help.
    I did help, didn't I? LOL

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    You definitely helped a lot, yes!

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 1,706
    edited December 1969

    Hi all,

    Like the title says, I'd like to know what would be needed/best for making a nearMe morph for genesis.

    NearMe is a pretty iconic figure in my mind, and has not seen any serious attention for a long while. Sure, a few dedicated artists still make stuff for her, but there is no support for the actual character.

    I was more than happy to use her during the v4 era, but as I get more and more spoiled by Genesis, I notice the older technology more and more. That being said, I think I am willing to make a substantial time commitment to creating a passable nearMe FBM for Genesis.

    My first thought was to find a way to increase nearMe's poly count or decrease genesis' poly count to match and then just to the import obj morph target thing, but I feel that that might not work out as easily as I think.

    So, can anybody suggest a workflow and programs I can use to do this? I'd really like to be able to somehow use nearMe's body as a morph target for Genesis' mesh but I doubt it is actually possible.

    For example: Does Decimator allow you to choose the poly count you "decimate" to? If so, would decimating to nearme's poly count and then using nearme as a morph target work?


    Edit: clarified about usage "with v4" being in the v4 era.

    I recently made a set of anime morphs for the Genesis figure that you might be able to use as a starting point to building a NearMe figure.

    You can get them here.
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/70211/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-General-Purpose-Anime-Team-G1-Morphs
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/70264/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-Big-Eye-Anime-Team-Genesis-1-morphs.
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/70301/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Big-Eyes-Closed-Pose-Modifier-Genesis

    Good luck. They're completely restriction free so you can incorporate them completely into any finished morph you make.

    big_eye_anime_1.jpg
    1250 x 1000 - 468K
    gp_animeteam_1.jpg
    1250 x 1000 - 433K
  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone! I spent like 4 hours on my efforts yesterday and I'm almost ready to share the resulting figure. I'll post screen shots tonight most likely. The hardest part is, without a doubt, the eyes. I gave up trying to make her nose extremely small like NearMe, but my alternative seems to have worked out well.

    Once I have the shape I'm going to try to figure out a way to remove all of the proprietary stuff so I can hopefully make it share-able, as I am pretty proud of the results.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited July 2013

    Hi everyone! I spent like 4 hours on my efforts yesterday and I'm almost ready to share the resulting figure. I'll post screen shots tonight most likely. The hardest part is, without a doubt, the eyes. I gave up trying to make her nose extremely small like NearMe, but my alternative seems to have worked out well.

    Once I have the shape I'm going to try to figure out a way to remove all of the proprietary stuff so I can hopefully make it share-able, as I am pretty proud of the results.

    The way I see it you will need to share two things:

    A. Your morph that ONLY contains your work.
    B. A shaping preset that will dial in your morph and all the other morphs you used to get to the final product.


    Assuming you haven't collapsed all the morphs into a single morph target this should be doable.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    I'm worried about my morph being seen as "too close to Hitomi" even if I sculpt it myself in Sculptris. My plan is to export a plain genesis into the program as an obj and model it myself, using my morphed out character as a reference. But in the end, isn't that just copying a bunch of other's work in a roundabout way?

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited July 2013

    I'm worried about my morph being seen as "too close to Hitomi" even if I sculpt it myself in Sculptris. My plan is to export a plain genesis into the program as an obj and model it myself, using my morphed out character as a reference. But in the end, isn't that just copying a bunch of other's work in a roundabout way?

    if you did indeed sculpt it yourself I wouldn't worry. I think that there would be noticeable differences in the change in topology if you were to view your wireframes against hitomis.

    Also one could argue Hitomi is just copying a generic anime template. But thats fine, because it was done via Mallen's own efforts. When it comes to anime, mimicing others styles or ideas is part of the industry.

    The most important thing is whether you do the work yourself or not.

    EDIT: Also I would say not to worry about what people think is "close" to Hitomi/Aiko/NearMe anyway, because a lot of folks think all toons look alike anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if you shared your NearMe imitation and people called it Aiko! I'm sure discerning eyes who follow that style of character will see the differences.

    Also your not making a Hitomi clone, just a NearMe clone, so I don't think you would have much to worry about.

    EDIT2: Also even if you DID make a similar figure to Hitomi, it wouldn't have the ton of morphs she comes with for her eyes and cheeks. So it's not really competition.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    I'm worried about my morph being seen as "too close to Hitomi" even if I sculpt it myself in Sculptris. My plan is to export a plain genesis into the program as an obj and model it myself, using my morphed out character as a reference. But in the end, isn't that just copying a bunch of other's work in a roundabout way?

    You initial purpose was NearMe, wasn't it? Even if they are similar in spirit (both are young anime big eyed girls), it is very clear from this thread that your purpose wasn't to make a copy Hitomi and default shapes for Hitomi and NearMe are quite different, especially in breasts area.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    The body is completely my own work (damn near nearMe, I'm pretty proud), but the head heavily uses the hitomi head shape and the Genesis head resource kits.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    The body is completely my own work (damn near nearMe, I'm pretty proud), but the head heavily uses the hitomi head shape and the Genesis head resource kits.

    Resource kits should be fine for redistribution as long as you 'bake' all resource kit morphs into one. Hitomi should be unbacked and added as a preset (dial value) only.
    I.e. you should have your own morphs, Resource kit morphs baked as one separately and a dial preset for Hitomi, with no actual Hitomi morph data involved.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Ugh that sounds like a lot of work. Hopefully I can get the head and eye shapes without using Hitomi at all. That'd be nice.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,912
    edited December 1969

    Ugh that sounds like a lot of work. Hopefully I can get the head and eye shapes without using Hitomi at all. That'd be nice.

    I'm making things sound more complicated than they are :)

    Your own separate NearMe morphs remain separate.
    'Baked' Resource morphs means that you leave only Resource morphs dialed as they need to be, export it an obj and reimport it back as a single morph, so separate Resource morphs can't be separated from each other.

    Saving a preset is easy in DS. When you ready, dial all morphs you prepared, including Hitomi morphs, and use Save As - Character preset. Character preset saves only dial values, not the morphs themselves, and this is what you want if Hitomi is involved.

    When you package, just add your own morph(s) and baked Resource morph to a character preset into proper folder structure.

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited December 1969

    Yeah I've baked many a morph in my day, I was just getting confused about the Character Preset, as I've never actually tried to share anything and have never actually saved a preset; I just save the figure to my library :p

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,275
    edited December 1969

    You can also use shape preset I would think, as shape presets are not concerned with materials. I use shape presets myself, not sure if there is a disadvantage to them (again excluding the texture piece).

  • Paradigm67Paradigm67 Posts: 973
    edited July 2013

    Yeah, shape presets would be probably better. Textures for my character are going to be hard to find. I use an old v4 anime skin. I accidentally loaded a v5 skin and it was a nightmare. It'd be cool if I could make a UV template to use NearMe textures, but that's really not my field of expertise.

    Post edited by Paradigm67 on
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