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I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.
Posted: 07 July 2013 09:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 181 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 182 ]
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Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 09:51 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

If you’d ever worked for 9 months on a film set you’d realize how absolutely absurd that statement is.

It’s not making sense to you because I’m looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy.  You’re looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want’s me to buy what you make.  And I’m telling you I don’t want to buy what you make.  And you’re telling me you don’t want to make what I buy.  So I don’t buy, and you don’t sell.  I buy something else, and you sell to someone else.  If that’s good enough for you then I can’t argue with that.

Maybe some content maker who isn’t satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 183 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:00 PM
Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 09:51 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

It’s not making sense to you because I’m looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy.  You’re looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want’s me to buy what you make.  And I’m telling you I don’t want to buy what you make.  And you’re telling me you don’t want to make what I buy.  So I don’t buy, and you don’t sell.  I buy something else, and you sell to someone else.  If that’s good enough for you then I can’t argue with that.

Maybe some content maker who isn’t satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.

Someone here already does wink So then, you are one of my customers, yes?

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 184 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:08 PM

People who make clothing for humans and sell it - big companies, and tiny companies - make clothing in multiple sizes.  Different waist sizes, different lengths, different neck sizes, different sleeve sizes - for the same garment.  Shoemakers for humans make shoes in differnt sizes, with different widths.  Companies who make bedding make it in multiple sizes for multiple size beds.

The simple truth is that goods for real humans have a potential market of billions of customers and ‘wear out’ given time.

The market for virtual human clothing, at a generous estimate, is still the barest sliver of a fraction of that; I would be surprised if it’s peak was 100,000 total potential customers. Remember: an item selling 100 copies is considered to be ‘doing well’ in this market. Further, these items do not ‘wear out’ as clothing, footwear, or bedding does. (This cannot actually be balanced out in large part as many claim by the materials cost of physical production of goods as components and equipment for manufacture are required for the production and delivery of both types of goods.)

The markets simply do not compare.

An item selling 100 pieces under the manufacturing model you describe above would be considered financially disastrous unless special circumstances—such as a deliberately limited edition combined with an astronomical price tag—were in aggressively in play.

Edit: And for the record, I’m one of those people who still does make V4 content. Is it all I make? No. But I do.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 185 ]
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surreality - 07 July 2013 10:03 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:08 PM

People who make clothing for humans and sell it - big companies, and tiny companies - make clothing in multiple sizes.  Different waist sizes, different lengths, different neck sizes, different sleeve sizes - for the same garment.  Shoemakers for humans make shoes in differnt sizes, with different widths.  Companies who make bedding make it in multiple sizes for multiple size beds.

The simple truth is that goods for real humans have a potential market of billions of customers and ‘wear out’ given time.

The market for virtual human clothing, at a generous estimate, is still the barest sliver of a fraction of that; I would be surprised if it’s peak was 100,000 total potential customers. Remember: an item selling 100 copies is considered to be ‘doing well’ in this market. Further, these items do not ‘wear out’ as clothing, footwear, or bedding does. (This cannot actually be balanced out in large part as many claim by the materials cost of physical production of goods as components and equipment for manufacture are required for the production and delivery of both types of goods.)

The markets simply do not compare.

An item selling 100 pieces under the manufacturing model you describe above would be considered financially disastrous unless special circumstances—such as a deliberately limited edition combined with an astronomical price tag—were in aggressively in play.

What surr said… and in addition, you are comparing a needful market to a hobbyist one. People have to buy clothing… no one has to buy a 3D model.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 186 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:00 PM
Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 09:51 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

It’s not making sense to you because I’m looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy.  You’re looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want’s me to buy what you make.  And I’m telling you I don’t want to buy what you make.  And you’re telling me you don’t want to make what I buy.  So I don’t buy, and you don’t sell.  I buy something else, and you sell to someone else.  If that’s good enough for you then I can’t argue with that.

Maybe some content maker who isn’t satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.

No, it’s not making sense because:

1) You have no idea what it takes to make content, so you’re saying things that are way off base. It’s easy to say something that is, quite honestly… silly and unrealistic.. it’s not until you have some understanding that you can make a competent argument.

2) The logic behind your examples are flawed. Editing a video is nothing close to making a 3D outfit, and that’s a quite a logic jump to get to, so I’m not sure how you even got there. That’s like saying “I can edit movies with this $30 program, I’m the next Steven Spielberg.”

3) If two content developers, which are supporters of the figure you want content for, tell you how easy or hard it is to do something, you should probably believe them, not insult them. It makes you look really bad and uninformed.

 

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 187 ]
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IgnisSerpentus - 07 July 2013 10:02 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:00 PM
Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 09:51 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

It’s not making sense to you because I’m looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy.  You’re looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want’s me to buy what you make.  And I’m telling you I don’t want to buy what you make.  And you’re telling me you don’t want to make what I buy.  So I don’t buy, and you don’t sell.  I buy something else, and you sell to someone else.  If that’s good enough for you then I can’t argue with that.

Maybe some content maker who isn’t satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.

Someone here already does wink So then, you are one of my customers, yes?

You do superb work - and your promo images are works of art.  I have come very close to buying things several times, and I can tell you that I will eventually get at least Edens Flame Outfit, and Godspeed.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 188 ]
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surreality - 07 July 2013 10:03 PM

Edit: And for the record, I’m one of those people who still does make V4 content. Is it all I make? No. But I do.

I know.  And if Daz shows you who purchases your products you’ll see I bought Warrior Maiden Ashe, and probably one of my all-time favourite characters Modern Muses Snow - you did such an incredible job modeling her face, especially her profile!

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 189 ]
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They don’t, unfortunately. Though I do appreciate your support! smile

If it is any comfort, do know I have more V4 characters in the works, and DAZ has let me know they are taking NO steps to ban/remove/stop accepting the content here in the store, even with the popularity of the V6 release.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 190 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:10 PM
IgnisSerpentus - 07 July 2013 10:02 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:00 PM
Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 09:51 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 09:45 PM

What’s going to happen when 3D clothing *is* made in a sweatshop?

If I can edit an entire feature film on my laptop, then it seems to me that some PhD computer genius can come up with an instant clothing conversion script.

I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.

I think you really need to understand what case you’re presenting and what’s really involved, because it’s not making too much sense to me.

It’s not making sense to you because I’m looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy.  You’re looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want’s me to buy what you make.  And I’m telling you I don’t want to buy what you make.  And you’re telling me you don’t want to make what I buy.  So I don’t buy, and you don’t sell.  I buy something else, and you sell to someone else.  If that’s good enough for you then I can’t argue with that.

Maybe some content maker who isn’t satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.

Someone here already does wink So then, you are one of my customers, yes?

You do superb work - and your promo images are works of art.  I have come very close to buying things several times, and I can tell you that I will eventually get at least Edens Flame Outfit, and Godspeed.

Well ty for the compliments. But what I do is really difficult… and tedious. Ive even been called a masochist at times. And this is a burden all clothing makers bear.

I do understand where u are coming from, and can relate to that upset of not being able to get things you want. I mean, Im a poser user and my buying habits have dwindled a lot with the lack of gen 4 stuff. But if it was easy, everyone would do it. It sadly, is not. And its even harder to support both. Im actually doing it right now and can already tell… I will more carefully pick and choose what I do geni conversions for. Supporting equivalents on every pack is way too much. I know at first glance it seems easy, coz its like well, the outfit is already modeled and mapped. But u actually have to fit it to genesis, then u have to redo any and all morphs in it, rig it and change weight maps… and that is all barring you don’t have issues to sort from going to a diff tech. What is one month of work for one, becomes easily 2 for both.

I dont really fault you guys tho, for not knowing better. The problem is, most people who have never done it and saw it all the way through, will ever understand how much work goes into this stuff. And there is easy content….. then there is hard. Like I said, clothing is among the hardest to do. Id rather fully rig a critter (and prolly would more often, if they sold better)

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Posted: 07 July 2013 10:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 191 ]
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Male-M3dia - 07 July 2013 10:09 PM

1) You have no idea what it takes to make content, so you’re saying things that are way off base. It’s easy to say something that is, quite honestly… silly and unrealistic.. it’s not until you have some understanding that you can make a competent argument.

2) The logic behind your examples are flawed. Editing a video is nothing close to making a 3D outfit, and that’s a quite a logic jump to get to, so I’m not sure how you even got there. That’s like saying “I can edit movies with this $30 program, I’m the next Steven Spielberg.”

3) If two content developers, which are supporters of the figure you want content for, tell you how easy or hard it is to do something, you should probably believe them, not insult them. It makes you look really bad and uninformed.

I’m telling you the truth about how I feel and what I want and you’re saying it makes me look really bad.  So it makes me look really bad.  I’m willing to let everybody see me as really bad.  It makes me look uninformed.  So I look stupid.  So what?  I still don’t want to have to rebuy morphs for new figures that I’ve already bought 2 or 3 times for older figures - just to use the new clothes.  Or rebuy figures just to use new skin textures.  I have 5 Victorias, 5 Michaels, and who knows how many Freaks, Hiros, Aikos, Kids, and Girls.  I don’t want to have to start all over with the 6th Victoria and the 6th Michael - only to have those replaced in a year or two with Victoria 7 and Michael 7 and have nothing compatible with them either.

 

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Posted: 07 July 2013 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 192 ]
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Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:37 PM

I have 5 Victorias, 5 Michaels, and who knows how many Freaks, Hiros, Aikos, Kids, and Girls.  I don’t want to have to start all over with the 6th Victoria and the 6th Michael - only to have those replaced in a year or two with Victoria 7 and Michael 7 and have nothing compatible with them either.

If you truly followed your argument to it’s point. You as a user would NOT own 5 Victoria’s or 5 of any figure. You would just own V1, and have demanded that all future improvements in the SCIENCE of 3D meshes and content of any kind be usable with the V1 figure, but as you just admitted you have followed the advancement of the Meshes and Improvements in 3D because you did support the new figures. Your only REAL point is you do not wish to spend any more money and Support the 3D artist that took the time to develop the NEW figures and content. Are they supposed to work for free? This is a business and the people who support it are not here to support the users, they are in it to support themselfs and earn a living just as you do at your everyday job. Should we all be on PC’s like the IBM 650 with parts added for free as the newer tech was developed? Your arguments are flawed, and you just refuse to see how they are flawed even when others point out the flaws. We are each entitled to our personal views but as things change our views need to adapt to the world around us. Nobody promised me a Rose Garden, so I planted my own. And it takes a good bit of adapting to keep it going every year.

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Posted: 07 July 2013 11:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 193 ]
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Jaderail - 07 July 2013 11:09 PM
Fauvist - 07 July 2013 10:37 PM

I have 5 Victorias, 5 Michaels, and who knows how many Freaks, Hiros, Aikos, Kids, and Girls.  I don’t want to have to start all over with the 6th Victoria and the 6th Michael - only to have those replaced in a year or two with Victoria 7 and Michael 7 and have nothing compatible with them either.

If you truly followed your argument to it’s point. You as a user would NOT own 5 Victoria’s or 5 of any figure. You would just own V1, and have demanded that all future improvements in the SCIENCE of 3D meshes and content of any kind be usable with the V1 figure, but as you just admitted you have followed the advancement of the Meshes and Improvements in 3D because you did support the new figures. Your only REAL point is you do not wish to spend any more money and Support the 3D artist that took the time to develop the NEW figures and content. Are they supposed to work for free? This is a business and the people who support it are not here to support the users, they are in it to support themselfs and earn a living just as you do at your everyday job. Should we all be on PC’s like the IBM 650 with parts added for free as the newer tech was developed? Your arguments are flawed, and you just refuse to see how they are flawed even when others point out the flaws. We are each entitled to our personal views but as things change our views need to adapt to the world around us. Nobody promised me a Rose Garden, so I planted my own. And it takes a good bit of adapting to keep it going every year.

Hmm.
I think all the good arguments being made are lost in a bit of emotion right now.
The main problem Iabout Genesis and V5, V6 are that they do not work natively in Poser, Carrara, and earlier versions of Daz.
We really didn’t have all these problems back when V2 was introduced, nor when V3 or V4 were introduced.
People bought the new figure and really got behind them.
True, some weren’t happy, but it was nothing like this.

The leap was probably too much too soon.

I don’t think anyone would want to go back to IBM 650 (You’re telling your age referencing that one, then again, by me getting the reference, so am I) or the like.

I’m an artist too and I hope no one is advocating we all work for free (even though some people skip out on paying us).

I guess it’s a good thing everyone is so passionate about their favourite Generation.
It means people care.

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Posted: 08 July 2013 12:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 194 ]
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I still just work with V4.2 and M4

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Posted: 08 July 2013 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 195 ]
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IgnisSerpentus - 07 July 2013 05:28 PM
RCDeschene - 07 July 2013 05:12 PM
IgnisSerpentus - 07 July 2013 08:52 AM

But the sad fact of the matter is… even with all the posts in this forum of ppl wanting male stuff, Scorpy God did not do that well at all. It wasnt awful, but…. it wasnt amazing either… it didnt even hit my personal goal for sets I do of that caliber (which, to be clear, is a min I have to make to recuperate the time spent) And the female counterpart (Serpent Goddess) did well too, so it wasn’t exactly the genre that tanked. My first male set (Godspeed) however, was a rousing success, so I figured, hey, Ill support M4 more often. But after Scorpy God, I’m now not so sure.

It just goes to show that the requests in this forum are, sadly, a vocal minority. Once again, I defer to my previous statement…. if u guys want support for something, u gotta buy it. Vendors go where the $$ is. And if we spend a month or two making a set that flops, we are not likely to spend that kind of time on something similar in the future.

Like the others who stated there reasons for not buying scorpion God, I too had no use for it. Remember that the other thing that people here ask to see more of, aside from male stuff and kids, is EVERYDAY CLOTHING, clothing that is practical and relating to real people. Almost all the male stuff I see here, and hell, even at Rendo is usually a bit to stylized for my taste. Hell, I’d even take man-slutware if it was made available to me. This is what I LOVED about David 5’s Pro Bundle.

This is why Genesis 2 should have stayed unisex. Genesis has some nice outfits that can go either way, hell even if it was built for a specific gender, there were some articles that looked really great on the opposite. THOSE are the items I buy.

Though, IgnisSerpentus’s info of his sales has got me thinking… I have to ask you PA’s, out of all the male wear that you do make, which actually sells relatively better? Is it everyday clothing? Specific genre’s? Textures? Because if there are some gems in that pile, maybe it would be best to focus of that particular aspect when you make male items. See what that does.

Well, I will say straight up… I will never do everyday clothing. Im totally fantasy geared. To me, that would take all the fun right out of this. I will probably also never do kiddie stuff, either and rarely do things that are frufru or otherwise construed as cute (I feel like Im faking something lol) As anyone can see by my store, Im mainly armor-focused. I also do mostly darker stuff (and when not dark per se, its gritty) When u think of my stuffs, u should think… Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic LOL

As far as male stats go, couldnt say to any degree…. other than the two packs I have (and already did kind of give those stats)

But I can say… sex sells. Better than anything else, hence why there is such a preponderance of it. Though, I spose there are always exceptions.

And btw… lol Im a chick.

First of all, “Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic” should totally be your business motto! :D

And absolutely! That’s what I keep trying to tell everyone. 3D, like most computer/tech realms is a man’s world. Women have a significant contribution to 3D art, yes. but hearing how Victoria and all her slutwear sells more than anything only proves that point. But I’m also willing to believe that if there is a pattern for what makes girls sell, there must be one for guys as well. After all, as much as guys love to fantasize about sexy chicks, they also love to stroke their own masculine egos, too. ; )

But seriously, this will probably make some eyes roll, but I say someone should seriously start making some ego-inducing stuff for the guys and man-slutware to entice the ladies… : )

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