I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.

FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
edited June 2014 in The Commons

I have a ton of morphs and poses and clothes and hair and textures for Victoria 4 - that I can't use on V6. I want to be able to use the stuff I already have, and I want new content for V4 to go with it.

The V6 content that was put on sale today are things I really want - but there's no way I'm buy it when I have so much invested in V4. It's a real shame.

If DAZ wants to add thousands of polygons to Victoria's face, they don't need to make a whole new figure. They can make a mask of a face that will fit V4 - a mask of a face with the thousands of new polygons. Then the thousands of people who have V4 can simply fit the mask over V4's face, make V4's face invisible, and use the new face possibilities. If a new face mask isn't possible, then just make a new head, so we can make V4's head invisible and parent the new head to V4's neck. I know absolutely that that will work because I use third generation heads of both male and female figures on fourth generation figures by making the third generation body invisible and parenting the head to the fourth generation neck - and making the 4th generation head invisible.

Similarly, all the other changes to Victoria could be incorporated into V4.

Any content artists reading this could make a LOT of money by modeling a high-polygon facemask with infinite expression-pose possibilities, and infinite character morph possibilities - a face mask to fit on V4 and V3 and the male figures.

This constant rebuying has to stop. DAZ's planned obsolescence has to stop. Enough is enough.

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Comments

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 300
    edited December 1969

    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.

    I believe this new V4 product was released this week http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases/hot-uniforms-college-girl

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Mr Leong said:
    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.l

    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 5,431
    edited December 1969

    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

  • willowfanwillowfan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kludging fixes and bolting on improvements is a very bad way to go forward, you are always ultimately going to be held back by the old tech.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Kludging fixes and bolting on improvements is a very bad way to go forward, you are always ultimately going to be held back by the old tech.

    A hundred years later, 250-million-dollar feature films are still shot on film. You can still watch I LOVE LUCY on an iPad. You can watch THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY from 1903 on your iPhone. After 29 centuries, the finest clothing is still made from silk. Old tech doesn't hold you back. Old thinking holds you back.

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 300
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Although the key word is "serious", not the majority.

    In a consumer based society, the majority seems to always go after the next big thing.

    Just curious, are you using Daz Studio? If so, what version?

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    [quote author="Mr Leong" date="1372961647" Just curious, are you using Daz Studio? If so, what version?

    I use Poser Pro 2012. I feel DAZ invented DAZ Studio and lets people have it for free for the sole purpose of attracting new users to 3D art in order to buy DAZ content.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Mr Leong said:
    Fauvist said:
    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Although the key word is "serious", not the majority.

    The majority of 3D artists, and the majority of DAZ content buyers, don't use Victoria 6.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,327
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?

    Figures would be hard to convert - aside from the shape, and auto-conversion is not going to be good enough for a store item so that involves a fair bit of work in a modeller, the rigging system used by V4 is different from that used by Genesis 1 and 2 and "uphill" - going from the Genesis system to V4 or M4 would be like trying to reproduce an image with a blend between two circles. Tools like AuroFit (which goes from V4 to Genesis, not vice versa(, the morph transfer tool and even GenX for morph conversion will be good enough for many uses, but they usually won't pass most stores QA.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,363
    edited July 2013

    Please avoid turning this into yet another Daz Studio versus Poser "war". Thank you

    DAZ 3D made the DSON importer in order for Poser users to be able to use it's newer figures.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Please avoid turning this into yet another Daz Studio versus Poser "war". Thankyou DAZ 3D made the DSON importer in order for Poser users to be able to use it's newer figures.

    This has nothing to do with DAZ Studio versus Poser - the issue of incompatible content between generations of figures equally affects DAZ Studio and Poser. So forget the DAZ Studio versus Poser conflict idea.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,108
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    I don't think vendors will stop making gen4 content. The only reason they would is if it stopped selling. But many stores v4 is their bread and butter.

    From all your posts, you seem to know what you're talking about. Would it be so impossibly difficult for DAZ to release a V4 version of any clothes they make for V6? Or hair?


    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:

    I think your plea is to the wrong people as not every product released is even created by Daz. Take the new bodysuit for example-- Smay made that.

    It would be impossible to make the plea to the hundreds of content creators that sell on DAZ and other sites. This plea is for DAZ and all content creators. They want to know how customers feel about their products. It's called "customer feedback".

  • Dino GrampsDino Gramps Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Mr Leong said:
    We went from records to 8-track, cassettes, CDs. mp3 . . . .

    Innovation is not likely to stop.l

    And now any serious music lover is going back to vinyl records - and the record companies are producing them again.

    Not entirely accurate. It is a niche market, and many "serious" music lovers, myself included enjoy the advantages of CDs over vinyl. I sold my library of 200+ vinyl records as soon as I was able to replace the majority of them on CD. I hate pops and ticks and background noise. For me they destroy the illusion of reality more than the sonic imperfections of the digital format. I am a classical musician and educator with a BM and more than enough additional hours to have a Masters if I wanted to jump through some hoops. I know the plus and minuses of each medium, can hear the plus and minuses of each medium, and have made my choice. Nothing is perfect. Live is best.

    Similarly, you cannot say that any serious 3D artist must use Genesis 2 technology, not that you did. We all make our decisions for many different reasons, but as long as they are based on facts, my choices are as valid as yours, I draw the line at Genesis, you at Generation 4. We both have our reasons. But please don't make a statement about all serious music lovers, or all serious 3D artists, or all serious sports fans etc.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 826
    edited December 1969

    "Serious" music lovers go and listen to it live. Fashionable music snobs are going back to vinyl because it's hip. And, as Mr Leong said, small minority and small market.

    Most of the recent blockbuster films have been shot digitally and not on film. Anything 3D has to have been done digitally.

    You can watch those old movies and TV shows on your iPad because they were converted to digital. In fact there are large segments of the early days of TV that are lost forever because the medium they were recorded on broke down in a very short time.

    Silk may be used to make the best clothes but only a small segment of the market is actually spinning the fiber into thread and weaving it by hand. The vast majority is being produced on some very high tech machines. Since my wife is a spinner and weaver I can tell you that a machine can produce much higher and more consistent quality than even the best hand weaver.

    Technology always advances. Trying to make it stop because you're satisfied is kind of like trying to teach a pig to sing - a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    [quote author="sjhayes2" date="1372962945"But please don't make a statement about all serious music lovers, or all serious 3D artists, or all serious sports fans etc.

    I didn't say ALL serious music lovers.

  • Rhale_2Rhale_2 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    The majority of 3D artists, and the majority of DAZ content buyers, don't use Victoria 6.

    Let's compare support for a figure available for a week against one available for over six years? Seems fair!


    There are other major content stores who have not really moved on from V4, so there is plenty of support from content developers.


    I'm glad Daz is moving forward.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Sisca said:

    Technology always advances. Trying to make it stop because you're satisfied is kind of like trying to teach a pig to sing - a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

    I'm not talking about technology advancing or not. I'm talking about *content* - using conent with new technology. Some live recording made by Paul Robeson in the 1930s can be played on a radio, tv, in a movie, on a vinyl record, on an 8track tape machine, a cassett recorder, on a Sony Betamax video player, on a laser disc, on a satelite radio station, on a computer, on an eBook reader, on an iPhone, and on your wristwatch.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Rhale_2 said:
    Fauvist said:
    The majority of 3D artists, and the majority of DAZ content buyers, don't use Victoria 6.

    Let's compare support for a figure available for a week against one available for over six years? Seems fair!.

    Compare it to Genesis then.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 826
    edited December 1969

    The new figures released last week are a new technology so you were railing against a new technology.

    There are always going to be 2 types of content creators. Those that want to produce content to take advantage of the latest and greatest technology and those that want to reach the widest audience. Many times these will overlap. I think you're going to see a lot of new content for G2F/V6 over the next several weeks because it's the new shiney and, if you're trying to make a living at this now is a good time to get your stuff out there since the market isn't saturated. If you go and look for clothing and narrow it down to G2F there are 18 items available. It's much more likely I'll find your item there than in sorting through the 1339 available for V4.

    It's also in the interest of the stores to promote the new technology and content created for it. I've got tons of clothes and hair for Genesis and quite a bit for V4/M4. Odds are if I'm trying to put together a character with a specific look I've got the stuff to do it so no need for me to spend money. If I want to use that new G2F character in my runtime I have to use autofit and deal with its limitations or I can buy that new outfit that someone just released.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Sisca said:
    "

    Most of the recent blockbuster films have been shot digitally and not on film. Anything 3D has to have been done digitally

    Iron Man, Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, and the brand new MAN OF STEEL were shot on 35mm film - just like BIRTH OF A NATION was in 1915. The movie industry uses a digital intermediate.

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:

    *snip*

    DAZ's planned obsolescence has to stop. Enough is enough.

    And you know that V4 is becoming obsolete how?

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:

    *snip*

    DAZ's planned obsolescence has to stop. Enough is enough.

    And you know that V4 is becoming obsolete how?

    The same way I knowV1, V2 and V3 are becoming obsolete.

  • Mr LeongMr Leong Posts: 300
    edited July 2013

    Fauvist said:
    The majority of 3D artists, and the majority of DAZ content buyers, don't use Victoria 6.

    And earlier you mentioned :

    Fauvist said:
    The V6 content that was put on sale today are things I really want

    I going to assume you're talking about the new stuff.
    If so, none of them require V6.
    They require Genesis2, which is free.


    I assume Poser users get Genesis 2, and also get it for free, based on what chohole said:

    DAZ 3D made the DSON importer in order for Poser users to be able to use it's newer figures.


    Post edited by Mr Leong on
  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 364
    edited December 1969

    Mr Leong said:

    Fauvist said:
    The V6 content that was put on sale today are things I really want

    I going to assume you're talking about the new stuff.
    If so, none of them require V6.
    They require Genesis2, which is free.

    I wasn't aware there was a Genesis2 Female without V6 - maybe there is, but I don't know what it is or what it's called.

  • Rhale_2Rhale_2 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Rhale_2 said:
    Fauvist said:
    The majority of 3D artists, and the majority of DAZ content buyers, don't use Victoria 6.

    Let's compare support for a figure available for a week against one available for over six years? Seems fair!.

    Compare it to Genesis then.

    It's a 2:1 ratio in favour of V4. What's your point?

  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 1,685
    edited December 1969

    It is called Genesis 2 Female, and you cand find her in your product library in the Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials pack. Just like Genesis it is a free download that is included in daz 4.6

  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 7,393
    edited December 1969

    V4 is not obsolete. I still own it, still own content for it. Same with M4 and all the previous incarnations of Mike and Vicky. Has any of it disappeared from someone's Runtime? It's still in mine.
    Yes, DAZ gives DAZ Studio away as an incentive to draw customers to daz.com. This is not some insidious plot, it just makes good sense. DAZ is a business, not a charity.
    Now if you are asking for some new products for V4 in addition to the fine new character morphs and body textures for V4 that have seen release over the last several months, such as new outfits, hair and shoes, I would have to nod in agreement; that would be nice indeed.
    I don't think it's going to happen unless we support the content creators who make V4 content by purchasing their products and encouraging them to make more. Let them know what you like, and what you want to see become available in the future. They do appreciate positive feedback, I'm sure.
    The bottom line: they stop making products if they don't sell.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 1,551
    edited December 1969

    Carola O said:
    It is called Genesis 2 Female, and you cand find her in your product library in the Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials pack. Just like Genesis it is a free download that is included in daz 4.6

    I believe (though I'm not a poser user, so I don't have the product) the Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials is also available to those who have purchased the DSON converter.

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