Indie Game License - I'm confused!

Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in New Users

I was looking at the Indie Game License and it says you cannot use brokered or published products in your games even if you purchase a license if I undertstand it correctly. The problem is, I've purchased so many different products and used a mishmash of different products to create more unique characters that I have no idea which ones use brokered products and which ones use Daz originals. So I'm guessing that means I can't use any of the characters I created using brokered or published products unless I redesign them to use only Daz originals? I came to Daz Studio to look to create characters for video games, but I had no idea the EULA prohibited the use of Daz products in games and bought the products impulsively. How can I find out which of the many products I purchased are brokered or published products?

«1

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,904
    edited December 1969

    The quickest way to check that i can think of is to open the readmes - they should have links to the store page, which will tell you if the Published artists is DAZ 3D or someone else.

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Checked the readmes. Damn, it seems the majority of them aren't Daz originals. Looks like I might have to radically redesign some of my characters around this, and make sure I buy only Daz originals from now on. I'm a bit disappointed about this. So I can't use any of these products for real-time 3D under any circumstances? Is there absolutely no way around this, short of spending more cash on Daz original products to redesign my characters? One of the morphs I used was Hitomi by MallenLane, so looks like I'll have to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch and be really careful not to use brokered products.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,904
    edited December 1969

    You might try contacting the artist to see if they would agree to a license, I'm not sure how that might work. But essentially yes, only items sold be DAZ itself and items by RawArt and Jack Tomalin have game licenses.

  • ninpo2danninpo2dan Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    You might try contacting the artist to see if they would agree to a license, I'm not sure how that might work. But essentially yes, only items sold be DAZ itself and items by RawArt and Jack Tomalin have game licenses.

    So any products that are sold through the DAZ Store that are not published by DAZ are basically of no use to game developers? For example, this vehicle is published by Predatron. So if I were to buy that vehicle, I wouldn't be able to use it in my own game?


    That makes me pretty curious then, what exactly am I paying for if I purchase those items? Yeah, sure, I get a neat model and texture to look at. But if I'm not buying the product for use in my own content, then what's the point? Am I paying $20 just so I can "see how it's done" and try to make my own version afterwards?


    I'm not trying to complain, just wanting to understand how all of this works. Luckily I haven't made any purchases yet, as I was wanting to make sure that the DAZ products would fit my needs as an indie developer as well. So far, it looks like I'll either have to look elsewhere or just be very very careful about what products I actually choose to use from DAZ.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,346
    edited December 1969

    ninpo2dan said:
    You might try contacting the artist to see if they would agree to a license, I'm not sure how that might work. But essentially yes, only items sold be DAZ itself and items by RawArt and Jack Tomalin have game licenses.

    So any products that are sold through the DAZ Store that are not published by DAZ are basically of no use to game developers? For example, this vehicle is published by Predatron. So if I were to buy that vehicle, I wouldn't be able to use it in my own game?


    That makes me pretty curious then, what exactly am I paying for if I purchase those items? Yeah, sure, I get a neat model and texture to look at. But if I'm not buying the product for use in my own content, then what's the point? Am I paying $20 just so I can "see how it's done" and try to make my own version afterwards?


    I'm not trying to complain, just wanting to understand how all of this works. Luckily I haven't made any purchases yet, as I was wanting to make sure that the DAZ products would fit my needs as an indie developer as well. So far, it looks like I'll either have to look elsewhere or just be very very careful about what products I actually choose to use from DAZ.

    DAZ cannot sell you the rights to use a 3D Mesh in a game that they do not own, that is why you can only use DAZ Originals with the licence.

    The normal content sold at DAZ 3D, and many other 3D websites, is used to create 3D scenes and animations, either using Poser or DAZ Studio, and even Vue and Carrara as well (among others) These items can be used quite legally for that purpose, but where the copyrighted 3D mesh is given away as part of a game, and can be extracted, the Game Developers Licence is needed.

    In other words, the items are sold so that the user can create renders of single scenes, or animations, which do not require the inclusion of the 3D mesh itself.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,904
    edited December 1969

    2D renders and animations, Jimmy means - it's including actual 3D data that requires the extra license if available. For that matter, a game which uses 2D sprites rather than 3D will be permitted using the basic license as long as there are no flat projections of things like ground textures. Rereading your original post you didn't say what kind of game it was - one that embedded 3D data, or one that used rendered 2D elements - which affects the answer.

  • ninpo2danninpo2dan Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    The game that I was personally working on is a 3D "RTS" format.


    My plans were to use the Studio software and associated suite of tools to create some conceptual models and scenery for the game, and to visually present some ideas to the rest of the team. Once we were ready to actually start making "hard" assets that would be used in our game, we would most likely have modified the original models or create our own based on our needs.


    Is there a topic that someone can link that actually covers the specific details regarding the use of DAZ and non-DAZ content in a PC game? What exactly we can and can't use? Is a GDL available and if so where do I find the information on it? If I do purchase models or other products from the DAZ store, and those items are listed as published by DAZ3D, does that mean I can readily use those items (in either original or modified format) in my game?


    And from what I could see from previous posts, if we do see an item that is sold through the DAZ store, but published by someone else, we would need to contact them instead and try purchasing a licensed copy of that item from them? So for example, I wanted to use the 3D model and base textures of that van (published by Predatron), then I would need to contact that publisher and attempt to purchase a content license from them?


    I don't mean to try and "steal" the topic, it seems that the original poster's questions and my own are the same overall.


    UPDATE: While previewing my post before hitting submit, I went ahead and did a search on the main site. I found both the "Indie" and "Commercial" developer license products, but I'm still a little confused as to how those work. Both of the licenses state "Note:DAZ 3D published or brokered content MAY NOT be distributed under this license and is subject to the regular DAZ 3D EULA."


    So does that mean products that I purchase from the DAZ Store such as ready-made models, even if published by DAZ3D, are still not able to be used as content in a PC game?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,829
    edited December 1969

    The licenses cover Daz Original Products, those products which list Daz3D as the vendor.

    DAZ 3D published or brokered content is what is meant in the pprevious explanations in this thread by Daz PAs. they own the rights to their own products, and sell them through the daz store. Those are the ones that are excluded from the license and need to be contacted separately as to whether they allow their items to be used, and at what cost.

  • ninpo2danninpo2dan Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    The licenses cover Daz Original Products, those products which list Daz3D as the vendor.

    DAZ 3D published or brokered content is what is meant in the pprevious explanations in this thread by Daz PAs. they own the rights to their own products, and sell them through the daz store. Those are the ones that are excluded from the license and need to be contacted separately as to whether they allow their items to be used, and at what cost.

    When I look at the items available through the DAZ Store, I don't see anything that mentions "Vendor". Do you mean products that are listed as having DAZ 3D as the sole "Publisher"? (See below)

    Published Artist(s):

    DAZ 3D

    So from what I understand so far, as long as I have purchased all of the necessary DAZ software, DAZ Game Developer License applicable to my income level (Indie vs Commercial), and have purchased the models, textures, etc directly from the DAZ Store...then those items are able to be used in my game? And that any products sold through the DAZ Store, when listed with any publisher other than DAZ, that I can only use those products in my game if I have purchased or made agreements directly with said publisher?


    So as an Indie Game Developer, if I want to use items (Characters, clothing, weapons, vehicles, static objects, etc) from the DAZ Store as inclusions in my PC game, all I need to do is buy the Game Developer license, and purchase the items from the store (as long as they are published solely by DAZ)?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,904
    edited December 1969

    That's correct, yes. There are also separate licenses for RawArt and Jack Tomalin products which work in the same way, covering items that list the artist in question as the Published Artist, but that's the lot at this time.

  • joeblack616joeblack616 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Hi, so if i want to use Jack Tomalin models (west park, parkside) in game, all i need is indie game licence ?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,829
    edited December 1969

    As long as they are all the ones that list DAZ 3D as the PA.

    Products that Jack sells under his own name need a separate license

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3D Universe also has game licenses if you want to use any of the products they make.

    http://www.3duniverse.co.za/content/GameContent/viewcontent

    Jack Tomalin's website is at:

    http://www.jacktomalin.com/

    You can contact him through it if you have any questions about game licenses for his products. The site got redesigned and if I remember correctly the old site had some info on using them in games, which I couldn't find on the redesigned site.

    Finally this stuff in this link was said in previous posts, but here is the link to the Knowledge Base Article on the subject if you need it.

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123839

  • NethanNethan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hello

    since some time (some redesign) the Publishing Artist isnt in the product description anymore

    Example at the Toon-alien
    http://www.daz3d.com/toon/toon-alien

    on the top of the produktpage theres
    Shop more by: DAZ 3D, 3D Universe <-- important for this product ?

    So its the Toon-alien covered with the Daz Game License ?
    or need i from 3D Universe there Game License or from Both ?

    I think there should a clear symbol / text if a produkt is a Daz3D orginal and covered with the Game License
    like the old "PA Daz3D"

    Other Example
    http://www.daz3d.com/expressive-snowman
    its covered with Daz3D GameLicense ? (or need License from SilverKey 3D ? )


    Thanks

    neth

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,739
    edited December 1969

    If it has DAZ 3D as a vendor then it is eligible. Having the PA listed is just giving them credit for making the pack, but DAZ has bought the pack from them.

  • NethanNethan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    so at Toon Alien the PA (Publishing Artist) ist 3D Universe and the Vendor ist Daz3D (Daz3DOrginal Logo)

    i can use it with the Daz3D Game License (dont need the 3D Universe Game License too)

    thats correct ?

    sorry to ask again - dont wont get troubles later )

    thx

    neth

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,214
    edited December 1969

    Nethan said:

    so at Toon Alien the PA (Publishing Artist) ist 3D Universe and the Vendor ist Daz3D (Daz3DOrginal Logo)

    i can use it with the Daz3D Game License (dont need the 3D Universe Game License too)

    thats correct ?

    sorry to ask again - dont wont get troubles later )

    thx

    neth

    Yes. DAZ 3D owns it and the DAZ 3D Game License covers it.

  • sitarlositarlo Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Daz really needs to take a look at the indie gaming GOLDMINE they are passing up. Game developers know to stay away from Daz/Poser stuff because it's high poly and barely licensable, BUT a 3D artist can use Daz models to create 2D model sheets for inspiration and guidance in modeling the human form in another tool like Blender. The resulting 3D model belongs to the artist and not to Daz. Still, if Daz would low-poly its stuff, plug it into the Unity asset store, and adopt a game-friendly policy they would make lots of money they aren't making now with their no-games licensing.

  • nitro52nitro52 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    I Agree, I'm also looking at daz for game development as the customization options are perfect for creating varied game. But only being licensed for daz models its crazy. I understand daz can not give permission on behalf of the creator but Daz should request that all publishers specific a license for usage. Help make it easier for the publishers to offer different licensing levels. Some might think that just purchasing the model is enough, others might want to offer a gaming license like daz does. This should be easy for the publishers to select and make it a requirement. It would help to enrich the store.

  • ZandermanZanderman Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hey. I know this has been down for a while, but what if the model is edited in an external editor and none of the resources come from designers other than Daz3d?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,829
    edited December 1969

    It would still be a Derivative of the original

  • john-2238994john-2238994 Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    Hi All,

    I know this thread has become a bit of a dead horse kicking contest, but I just want to chime in and get some clarity on a few things.
    Firstly, I'm an indie game developer and amateur 3D artist. I have painfully read the DAZ licensing model over and over and am clear on the terms.

    What I'm not clear on is why.

    I understand that DAZ can't grant license to someone else's material in a game....I get that.
    I have had mixed results with asking other 3D artists permission to use their meshes/models.
    What I don't understand is why a 3D artist who sells their material on a website like DAZ would care what the asset is used for.
    I have purchased some models from artists and had them flat out tell me NO, with no explanation.

    Again, I get DAZ's legal argument as to why they are out of the loop.

    My question is more of a philosophical one in nature.

    As long as an artist is getting paid, why would they care what it is used for?

    Thanks

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    john said:
    My question is more of a philosophical one in nature.

    As long as an artist is getting paid, why would they care what it is used for?

    Thanks

    Because they created it with a end use in mind and still own the RIGHTS to the item. The only rights given are for Rendering and animation so it appears they do care what their work is used for or they would sell the item FULLY and not hold the rights of use. The why can only be answered by the artist that created the item in question if they decide to answer it. Not by others guessing at it.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,829
    edited January 2014

    Plus of course it can be too easy to extract mesh from a game, especially if the person making the game ignores, or is not skilled enough to comply with, the stipulations that are in the DAZ 3D license about encoding it and such to prevent this happening.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Leo ChenLeo Chen Posts: 560
    edited December 1969

    You might try contacting the artist to see if they would agree to a license, I'm not sure how that might work. But essentially yes, only items sold be DAZ itself and items by RawArt and Jack Tomalin have game licenses.

    1.
    So, items made by DAZ itself and RawArt and Tomalin can be used in game without "game licences"?

    2.
    Which artists require extra "game license" for their products sold?

    Thank you in advance.

    BTW, may I suggest DAZ put an icon to indicate the products which require extra game license.

  • Leo ChenLeo Chen Posts: 560
    edited December 1969

    Nethan said:

    so at Toon Alien the PA (Publishing Artist) ist 3D Universe and the Vendor ist Daz3D (Daz3DOrginal Logo)

    i can use it with the Daz3D Game License (dont need the 3D Universe Game License too)

    thats correct ?

    sorry to ask again - dont wont get troubles later )

    thx

    neth

    Yes. DAZ 3D owns it and the DAZ 3D Game License covers it.

    Did you mean he still need an extra "Game License" from DAZ 3D for the products he bought?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,829
    edited January 2014

    You might try contacting the artist to see if they would agree to a license, I'm not sure how that might work. But essentially yes, only items sold be DAZ itself and items by RawArt and Jack Tomalin have game licenses.

    1.
    So, items made by DAZ itself and RawArt and Tomalin can be used in game without "game licences"?

    2.
    Which artists require extra "game license" for their products sold?

    Thank you in advance.

    BTW, may I suggest DAZ put an icon to indicate the products which require extra game license.

    Everything needs an extra Game License if it is going to be used in Games, and even then The DAZ 3D game license only includes Daz Originals, and is only for making new games. It does not cover people who want to use DAZ models to mod games, that is not allowed at all.

    Anything that is owned by a PA needs a license from the PA in question, and at this moment in time RawArt is the only PA who sells a game license, and that is the same price as the DAZ 3D license.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Leo ChenLeo Chen Posts: 560
    edited January 2014

    chohole said:

    Everything needs an extra Game License if it is going to be used in Games, and even then The DAZ 3D game license only includes Daz Originals, and is only for making new games. It does not cover people who want to use DAZ models to mod games, that is not allowed at all. Anything that is owned by a PA needs a license from the PA in question, and at this moment in time RawArt is the only PA who sells a game license, and that is the same price as the DAZ 3D license.

    Thank you,chohole.

    1. so, the extra "game license" from DAZ only cover the products made by DAZ, not all the products sold by DAZ?

    2. the DAZ 3D license you were talking about RawArt's items is "DAZ's game license" or "regular license"?

    3. How about software and plug-in? lights and pose and animation? Are they all need an extra "Game License"?

    Post edited by Leo Chen on
  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,017
    edited December 1969

    Nethan said:

    so at Toon Alien the PA (Publishing Artist) ist 3D Universe and the Vendor ist Daz3D (Daz3DOrginal Logo)

    i can use it with the Daz3D Game License (dont need the 3D Universe Game License too)

    thats correct ?

    sorry to ask again - dont wont get troubles later )

    thx

    neth

    Yes. DAZ 3D owns it and the DAZ 3D Game License covers it.

    Did you mean he still need an extra "Game License" from DAZ 3D for the products he bought?

    Basically, what you pay $20 for at DAZ to use for rendering, costs $200-$1800 at places like Turbosquid where the difference is that on Turbosquid you can use is as long as you don't resell it as a 3D prop. So, you get what you pay for.

Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel