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When will DAZ have realistic skins?
Posted: 10 July 2013 05:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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snowpheonix - 10 July 2013 03:21 AM
Takeo.Kensei - 09 July 2013 10:58 PM

You don’t see any texture details from far.

I disagree with that idea… “In my opinion”  .. When you pull away, you simply see different details.  Now instead of just seeing pores and mircro hair, you see the larger variation of skin colors that I keep talking about are so important like the area at the bottom of the neck being slightly darker since sunlight tends to tan this part of the body.  I agree with you about light but its rare that we find character skins that look good both close up and farther away where the details now change to if the top of the arm is tanner then the bottom.  Skin for each character and person tells a unique story. 

Skin texture and the characters morph or shape is just as important as lighting. 

The pic is London rendered w/ DAZ3d and FW Ethereal light. smile

I agree about seeing skin variation but that plays a minor role as people tend to make it disappear by adding SSS and other thing in the mix
From your renders I can say that the textures you have displayed do have all the details needed to make realistic renders. The point is there. Even with realistic skin you won’t get realistic renders if the rest is not correct.
As for the shaping, it doesn’t change rendering result (see pic under)

I just had a look at London. The promo pictures are stunning (even if I find the face is the only part well rendered), but it only proves that the artist knows how to properly shade and lightning if you compare to Agent_Unawares’ and your renders
About your grief against using promo pics rendered in Poser, I’ll just say that many artist use poser and know the shading and lightning system better than DS. And making a good render is a good way to sell. DS Rendering can yield as good result. It’s just that the settings are not the same for Poser and DS and there is no easy way to convert

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Posted: 10 July 2013 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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@snowpheonix, Have you looked at the gallery pictures attached to the products you are talking about in Rendo? If you notice, many if not most will look very weak relative to the promo pictures. These are good examples as to what one can expect to actually get on their own if they don’t have a solid foundation in lighting and other aspects of tweaking the settings for a particular situation.

Take a look at this but read what Mark128 had to say about it as well as look at the image.

You are right, one day you will be able to get to that level right out of the box and all of the people who had to work to get that quality of image will have moved on to other challenges. But the thing you are missing is that this is not a DAZ specific issue, this is an industry wide issue. One has to work (or get lucky) in any environment to get the results you are talking about right now.

Think of photography. With the ubiquity of cameras, people are taking a lot of pictures now. For someone that takes a ‘lot’ of pictures they are going to have some amazing ones occasionally, ones that compete with what a good professional photographer would do. The difference is, they can’t do it on demand or consistently. Your argument is one based on seeing this type of phenomenon and wondering why your phone camera can’t take a great picture every time without having to understand the ins and outs of photography or post.

Just as an aside, I’ve noticed that it’s not uncommon for PAs in some stores like Rendo in particular hire others to do their promo work. The PAs that do their own promos (from what I can tell) and do great promos also tend to do better skins, etc… as they have a better grasp on some of the finer points of what to put into the skins to make it easier to get great results. This of course does not negate anything I said previously however.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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snowpheonix - 10 July 2013 12:51 AM

I found London to be a more difficult challenge myself but if you have a good skin to start with, you can make a wonderful finished product.  I think from my perspective, the reason I love the G2 platform so much is the new shape controls that it allows you to have.  A lot of people tend to forget that we are working in three dimensions and they try to make lighting try and make up for not having a good morph on the character.

I agree on this.

snowpheonix - 10 July 2013 12:51 AM

Personally, I can’t get my character to look like the artist but then I’m just using the skin over my own model that has a different shape since the provided V4 morphs never worked with Genesis.  For me, I’ve been building Frankenstein girls all along.. a little from here and a little from there…

That’s pretty much what I do. I often don’t even use the eyes that come with a character, and I can’t stand using presupplied character morphs 100%, even my favorites. Even if it’s an existing person or character, still fun to put your own spin on things.

snowpheonix - 10 July 2013 12:51 AM

This pic was Daz rendered.  I found that lower lights tend to let the remarkable details of her skin shine through… those details help to fool the person looking on..  Just my thoughts, thanks for sharing with me.

That’s generally true, for portrait shots especially. Remembering to get some light even in the shadow areas is important, because unless you’re using indirect lighting or an unbiased renderer the lights won’t scatter like they do in the real world. I still find a little more contrast in the lighting more appealing.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 03:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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Takeo.Kensei - 10 July 2013 05:18 AM

I just had a look at London. The promo pictures are stunning (even if I find the face is the only part well rendered), but it only proves that the artist knows how to properly shade and lightning if you compare to Agent_Unawares’ and your renders

Hey, no dropping a comment like that and running off without details! What’s obviously off about my skin shader settings? I do want to know as I’d like to get closer. That look has a certain charm to it.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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@Agent : Not fleshy enough. Not soft enough and you don’t see SSS effect that blurs details which adds to the softness. The highlights and shadows are too hard. There is not enough light which make the shadows dark. And the big detail : the ears

The promo renders give a sense of delicacy which I don’t find in yours

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Posted: 10 July 2013 06:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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So mostly camera settings, then. The promos all have DOF, which is what’s giving that soft look [SSS too, but the blurring is much less on the in-focus areas]. I’ll try brightening the IBL as well. Thanks!

What’s wrong about the ears? If it’s the blocky textures, I can’t really help that; they’re pretty bad unfortunately.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 06:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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I’m throwing the towel in, I give up. LOL

Added in 2 more rigs for a total of 20 lights and rotated the camera. I may try later with a more basic skin.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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Ok, fine, one more. Forgot to turn DOF back on in the last render, which doesn’t appear to make a lick of difference atm.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 08:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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I’m not sure what to say about that one. It’s close but still seems off, kind of fuzzy. Is that shading rate set high enough that it’s killing the details?

This is changed lights and DOF, and then a softer character morph. I think I may have to add a pure ambient light in, and change the main light to come from an angle instead of straight on. The SSS and highlights are getting blown out now as well.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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I keep my shading rates at .1 or .2 (shadow bias on lights are also .1)

I’m going to try with this setup http://www.3duniverse.co.za/store/product/?DAZ-Studio-Light-Dome rather than a rig of a bunch of raytraced spotlights.

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Posted: 10 July 2013 09:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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I decided to just focus on MM Tamesis’ skin in it’s default state since she (Surreality) seems to already have it setup in a fashion that would require a ton of lights as it is. This is what I got with default MM Tamesis and 3DU’s 20 light rig (I set 4 in front to specular and turned shadows off on all of the rears). The red tint I believe is coming from the SSS maps on Tamesis since by default it’s a dark red version of the diffuse (or looks it).

I wish she would come back to this thread. LOL

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Posted: 10 July 2013 11:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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This is one of the most realistic renders I’ve seen. I thought it was a mis-categorized photo until it said London for V4. Of course, it was rendered in Lux and she’s not quite sure how she did it. She did it by mistake. lol

It has some obvious issues in the arm/shirt area, but good grief.

http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Lady-In-red-384439085

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Posted: 11 July 2013 01:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
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Vaskania - 10 July 2013 11:10 PM

This is one of the most realistic renders I’ve seen. I thought it was a mis-categorized photo until it said London for V4. Of course, it was rendered in Lux and she’s not quite sure how she did it. She did it by mistake. lol

It has some obvious issues in the arm/shirt area, but good grief.

http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Lady-In-red-384439085

By “accidentally/out of nowhere” He (Javier is a guy) means that he’s not sure how he came up with the concept for the character. His renders tend to range from pretty good to great depending on the model and render engine he uses (sometimes he uses 3Delight, sometimes blender, and others Lux.)

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Posted: 11 July 2013 01:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
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lface8 - 11 July 2013 01:26 AM
Vaskania - 10 July 2013 11:10 PM

This is one of the most realistic renders I’ve seen. I thought it was a mis-categorized photo until it said London for V4. Of course, it was rendered in Lux and she’s not quite sure how she did it. She did it by mistake. lol

It has some obvious issues in the arm/shirt area, but good grief.

http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Lady-In-red-384439085

By “accidentally/out of nowhere” He (Javier is a guy) means that he’s not sure how he came up with the concept for the character. His renders tend to range from pretty good to great depending on the model and render engine he uses (sometimes he uses 3Delight, sometimes blender, and others Lux.)

Ah ok. Oops on the gender thing. I looked at the icon and not the name. lol

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Posted: 11 July 2013 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
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Vaskania - 10 July 2013 11:10 PM

This is one of the most realistic renders I’ve seen. I thought it was a mis-categorized photo until it said London for V4. Of course, it was rendered in Lux and she’s not quite sure how she did it. She did it by mistake. lol

It has some obvious issues in the arm/shirt area, but good grief.

http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Lady-In-red-384439085

I had to really look hard at that image to notice it was even a 3D artwork. That is by far the second-most amazing, most realistic render I’ve seen to date, though no where could I find what software he used for it. As for which one gets first place, it’s actually a child’s portrait. which was rendered in 3DS Max using reference photos. Not using any Daz figures or textures though, so it doesn’t really count here.

That ‘Lady in Red’ image is the sort of realism I aspire to. It’s almost faultless.

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