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V6, DAZ’s most successful release? 
Posted: 25 June 2013 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Was anyone really expecting DAZ to issue a press release to the effect of : “...Victoria 6 our least successful release to date…”? 

Success can be defined in many ways.  DS can be classed as successful if you count success by the number of downloads.  Can it be classed as equally successful by the actual revenue the application itself has generated (I’m not referring to content sales figures but actual monies generated by sale of DS in and of itself)? 

In the Poserverse, what makes a figure successful and what doesn’t?  For most, it’s support.  A vendor can make the most amazing figure out there (Apollo Maximus is a prime example) but if there is no 3rd party support, it doesn’t really succeed.  In those terms, V4 would have to be considered DAZ’s most successful release.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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jimzombie - 25 June 2013 06:52 AM

@ chohole: Carrara might be getting some development, but when you put it up against other similar programs it feels like the poor cousin. Just about any Carrara user here will tell you the beta process has been long and painful. I’d be interested to see the feature list for 9, but as far as I know one isn’t publicly available.

I am a Bryce User remember. I see Carrara as getting quite a bit of attention, and 2 upgrades scheduled.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I jumped off of Carrara when I couldn’t upgrade 7 Pro to 8.x Pro without jumping through support ticket hoops. I like to press a button and see the deal and have time to think.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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hal1 - 25 June 2013 06:47 AM

... You can forget about professionnal 3D studio : they don’t use it because it is too complex to use daz models in their workflow and the models are not good enough to be use as they are….

I would agree with this, barring information to the contrary. However, I also believe we are on the cusp of a change in the industry and where DAZ fits into that depends on what steps they take to meet that change. The next generation of tools and processes for creating content of a much higher standard are in the pipeline now with pTex, OpenSubDiv and the like. At a certain point, if one can buy a subscription to content, or significant bundled content that can be dropped in place rather then created, but needs little to no tweaking… studios of all sizes will commit their resources where they most make sense, and not worry about creating pots and pans, plants etc..

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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icprncss - 25 June 2013 07:15 AM

In the Poserverse, what makes a figure successful and what doesn’t?  For most, it’s support.  A vendor can make the most amazing figure out there (Apollo Maximus is a prime example) but if there is no 3rd party support, it doesn’t really succeed.  In those terms, V4 would have to be considered DAZ’s most successful release.

 

I agree.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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To give you a real life example of company hype not meaning what it appears:

I once worked for a music store which primarily sold pianos and organs (remember those?), and gave 10 free lessons with the sale of either. They advertised this as, “our award winning free lessons.” When asked about this, the owner said, “We give awards to our students, so we can say our lessons are award winning.”

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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@ sjhayes2: You think that PA’s have no power of what their products get bundled with?

@ chohole: I am quite aware that Carrara gets more development than Bryce, but there would be a greater return on investment for Carrara, and given funding it could be a gem that could compete with the other 3D packages out there in the same class. With its modelling tools, accessible materials system, render engine, and fx, not to mention native DS/Poser content support it should be the logical progression following on from programs like DS and Poser.

Bryce has a much steeper mountain to scale before it could start taking market share from the other similar apps. I’m a big fan of Bryce and think it could be fantastic given the TLC it needs.

Ah, I see the cause of confusion. I was saying that Carrara was the poor cousin of the full featured 3D suite world, not the DAZ development schedule.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 07:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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sjhayes2 - 25 June 2013 07:33 AM

To give you a real life example of company hype not meaning what it appears:

I once worked for a music store which primarily sold pianos and organs (remember those?), and gave 10 free lessons with the sale of either. They advertised this as, “our award winning free lessons.” When asked about this, the owner said, “We give awards to our students, so we can say our lessons are award winning.”

I just love those explanations.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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The problem with trying to say whether or not a company or product is successful based on what you see in a forum is that it’s an echo chamber and not a representative sample of the actual user base.

I’m a gamer, I primarily play MMO’s such as EverQuest or WoW. A few years ago I was at a fan convention run by one of the companies. Someone there brought up an issue with one of their recent expansions that “EVERYONE” hated - just look at the forums if you want proof. The devs smiled and showed real world numbers. Less than 20% of the entire player base logged into the forums on even a monthly basis. Less than 2% of the people that visited the forums in a month made ANY comment on the topic. So why should they tailor their product for a small but vocal fraction of their market.

Then of course you have to define “successful”.

Is it that it sold more units in the first weekend? I can believe that, the potential market is bigger than when V5 launched and a heck of a lot bigger than when V4 launched. Remember, we’re talking first weekend numbers here.

Is it that it netted more money in the first weekend? I can buy that as well for the same reason as above plus they probably made more per unit since they’ve improved their processes over the years.

So yeah, I can see it being the most successful release in DAZ history just like I’ll bet that M6 will be the most successful in DAZ history.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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hal1 - 25 June 2013 06:47 AM
JasmineSkunk - 25 June 2013 03:15 AM

OK… just clarifying one more time. I am not suggesting that Daz Studio will replace those more powerful and complex tools… I am telling you that many courses are now available that in whatever fashion, use Daz Studio…

... I don’t know why….

I don’t think it means Daz Studio is going to be the next Maya….

I think it means Daz is getting their money from places that extend beyond the hobbyist marketplace… the educational interest information was only supposed to show you that we, the hobbyist, are not the center of the Daz3D world.

Many have asked, “Why doesn’t Daz listen to us anymore? Why doesn’t Daz care what we want? Why don’t they care what we say? How can they stay afloat when so many people are angry and upset? How can they still thrive with the best success to date when more than half of “the community” got P.O’d and left?”

I have a suggestion as to how:

We are not their bread and butter.

But we’re still kinda important because if it weren’t for us the P.A’s would prolly quit…lol

I really doubt about this. Because professionnal like freelancers, educationnal, illustrator etc won’t buy thousands of dollar of content per year as most hobbyist do.

Educationnal can use the free base of DS and the free item in it : it is clearly sufficient for their purpose (teaching)

You can forget about professionnal 3D studio : they don’t use it because it is too complex to use daz models in their workflow and the models are not good enough to be use as they are. Video game developpers need to buy a commercial licence for using daz model more over for any real time application like video game they need a specific (and costly licence).

But I agree that daz forum is not representative of the whole daz market.

I would like to add one thing. Just look at the content that is released for Genesis and for V6 at her introduction. Does that look like a company whose target audience is the ‘professional’ market? Or the ‘educational’ market. I doubt it.

About the most successful release. The figure is a few days old. So there is only a very limited number of things they can use for the term ‘successful’. It certainly can’t yet figure in returns to just use one example (although I doubt it’ll be a very relevant number). As a whole it sounds just like a particularly meaningless and desperate marketing blurb, not worth the time thinking about it.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I am an expert on very few things, but I am an expert on this:

A vocal forum does not necessarily, or even likely, represent the majority of people with an interest in what the forums are about. They represent a percentage of people that (a) have an interest in the subject matter and (b) use the forums. 99% of a forum can be unified and still not represent a significant percentage of (a).

Granted, forums can reflect widely shared opinions, but my point is that there is no guarantee whatsoever of that. The entire forum can be typing in all caps in disgust, and the majority of DAZ users could still be happily buying up products.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 09:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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dan.shive - 25 June 2013 09:12 AM

Granted, forums can reflect widely shared opinions, but my point is that there is no guarantee whatsoever of that. The entire forum can be typing in all caps in disgust, and the majority of DAZ users could still be happily buying up products.

Or, if you’re totally insane like myself, you can do both. I bought V6 despite being rather underwhelmed by Genesis 2 overall and the morphs bundle. Other than running side by side comparisons and maybe a handful of renders, I’ve barely touched her since. I doubt I’m alone in having purchased her despite having not really been too thrilled with the idea.

Still, it’s obvious the less customizable V6 has a market somewhere. There are arguably as many singing her praises as there are grumpy men like myself bemoaning the loss of flexible morphs. I’m still secretly hoping they have a trump card hidden up their sleeve which will dispel my worst fears and restore absolute faith in Daz and humanity at large (hint, it involves little people not to be confused with ring-chasing hobbits). If that happens, then I’ll move to adopt the figure on a more permanent basis. In the meantime I’m keeping a miserly grip on my money with regards to V6 until I can clearly see a benefit to using her over Genesis.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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I’m not sure what people are doubting about what I’m saying… I’m not going to quote everybody cuz the conversations and quotes would take up more space than necessary, but I really don’t think what I am trying to say is outlandish or unbelievable… I don’t understand the doubt.

What’s harder to believe? That Daz3d doesn’t care about what hobbyists think or that Daz Studio is used by professionals and educators?

Well… Daz Studio is being used by professionals and educators. Look for yourself.
And don’t think that educators and professionals don’t need pretty girls in slutwear… because they do!
Of course they do. They want to sell their stuff, too, after all.

People are assuming that “professionals” are modelers or animators, but that’s not the situation. Professional web designers, for example, may not know anything about vertex points or polygons but they still know about art and design and need a tool that will allow them to create images. Daz Studio creates images and is used by a wide variety of professionals…

And…

Daz has been trying for a while now to appeal to a more professional market. With the release and “innovation” of Genesis (1) and Daz Studio 4 they gained some success. People who have been here for awhile might find it difficult to believe that Poser and Daz Studio are anything but toys because they began that way, but that is not only changing, it kind of seems like the goal…

It feels to me that THAT is the ultimate goal, in fact. To leave the hobbyist and embrace big business…

That being said… I still love Daz Studio. I still love Genesis… I’m not going to buy into Genesis 2 or Generation 6, although I can see why they exist and expect it to be successful… I may still buy from PA’s who create for Genesis (1) for as long as that option remains alive… I am very sad that the market doesn’t seem to be geared for me (or people like me) anymore…. The hobbyist has no real interest in keeping up with the latest and most advanced technology. At least not to the point that they want to do an complete and new overhaul of their libraries with new shiny figures every year or so. Most of us just can’t afford to do that…

...but the professional market NEEDS something new as often as possible…

It’s not that hard to understand, really.

I wouldn’t be the tiniest bit surprised to hear that Daz Studio 5 and Genesis 3 are already on the drawing board… cuz that’s just the way things work in big business…. and it seems to me that is exactly what Daz is striving to do.

Is it wrong?

I don’t know…. It kinda sucks for me, though.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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I do, actually. Yes. And I am not one of the folks who has a hard time believing the programs are being used proffessionally. I have seen it many times now. Nor do I begrudge them the fruits of their labors in terms of having earned their way in the business world. What dissappoints me primarily is that since the merger took place, they seem to be catering ONLY to this.

That is all.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 12:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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I actually find cute that some of us tend to think DAZ or Poser is a heavily popular thing in the grand scale of the 3D world.

Yes, DAZ is largely popular enough with 3D content produces, artists and hobbyists to get a number of commending awards. But if you go into a game development program that focuses on Autodesk or ZBrush, or go to a gaming/filming conference, basically any high-scale professional 3D environment, and even mention DAZ or Poser, you’ll get scoffed at and laughed out of the building…

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