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V6, DAZ’s most successful release? 
Posted: 26 June 2013 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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Male-M3dia - 26 June 2013 06:18 PM

Actually I do make what I want, however too many times you see posts where people say they want something, you give it to them and they either don’t buy it or stick on their wishlists, so it ends up a waste of my time where I could be making something else. Even worse is when you provide something and someone says “I’ll wait until it’s 50% off.” PAs don’t create items for sale for them to be deeply discounted; that’s also a waste of their time. They attempt to provide things that customers want at a price that they think is fair for the time they’ve invested in it.

That said, the last week there’s been a lot of confusion about Gen2 and incorrect statements about being the end of Gen1 simply weren’t true due to mass speculation and lack of information that really should have been more detailed so people actually understood what Gen2/V6 actually was… and because of that, a lot of people stopped buying the Gen1 stuff thinking they were going to end the figure. So if you want PAs to continue to provide Gen 1 products you need to show that support by purchasing those products. If you don’t buy them, then there’s no need for us to take our time to provide you with those products.

That’s what I’m saying.

Well… I had this really long post that didn’t make much sense cuz at the time I was doing a bunch of other stuff and was getting kinda tired…

....and now I am actually tired….so I don’t know how much better this will be.

I know it’s tough for you PA’s, too. And I know that trying to figure out what the customer wants vs. what they say they want can be daunting…

but I think the truth is… people don’t always have money when that really awesome product they’ve been wanting actually comes out and so by the time they do have money, perhaps it ends up seeming like, “Well, I went this long without it… it can probably wait”. I don’t think people are trying to mislead the vendors. I just think that human nature and circumstance often interfere with someone’s intentions.

Genesis 1….Genesis 2

To be honest….just thinking the words, “Genesis 2” actually (literally) causes my stomach to knot up…

....and because I’m tired and not making much sense, I’ll just have to say, “Good luck with that.”

 

 

 

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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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Male-M3dia - 26 June 2013 06:18 PM

That said, the last week there’s been a lot of confusion about Gen2 and incorrect statements about being the end of Gen1 simply weren’t true due to mass speculation and lack of information that really should have been more detailed so people actually understood what Gen2/V6 actually was... and because of that, a lot of people stopped buying the Gen1 stuff thinking they were going to end the figure.

That, I think, is the crux of the problem right there. Daz really should have made an announcement prior to the release of the figure spelling out what exactly the figure is and what the plans for Genesis 1 are.

Personally, I think if they are indeed going separate male and female figures it was a huge mistake to call these new figures Genesis. Victoria 6 and Michael 6 is what they should have gone with and save Genesis 2 for the next release of a unimesh figure.

Some of the speculation of deliberate abandonment of the Genesis figure is warranted reading old forum posts about how Daz sold products right up to the bitter end only to completely turf them on the next update of Daz Studio (Animate 1, anybody?). It’s not like people are without cause to be nervous of Daz’s intentions and their silence isn’t exactly reassuring.

 

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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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..exactly.  This is what I already have alluded to.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 01:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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nobody1954 - 25 June 2013 05:27 PM

1. Fact: I didn’t buy V6. Nothing against DAZ, or Genesis 2,  just not what I’m needing right now. Spent a fair amount on other things.
2. Fact: I have no idea how many V6 and V6 products Daz sold.
3. Fact: Any opinion I have about how the sales of V6 went are simply things I made up. See #2
4. Using facts in an internet discussion is a complete waste of time. People believe what they have made up is just as valid as any fact, perhaps even more so. And can come up with multiple reasons why this is so.
5. Some day, people will realize that discussions of this kind throw considerable insight into how the human mind works.

I missed this earlier… but I feel compelled to comment.
Of course, I can only speak for myself.

It doesn’t matter to me
1. Who may agree with me or not
2. Who may be analyzing me or not.
3. Who may be intimidating me or not.

I will always do what I think is right.

Always.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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JOdel - 26 June 2013 11:14 AM

Oh as if. *Nobody* teaches classes in a school on a program that is effectively free software. Schools only teach programs that somebody in the industry is hiring based on the knowledge of.

I would happily take a class or several in Studio if they existed. But no, the closest I could get to that was Maya.

Hi Jodel, colleges aren’t the only schools that use software. Schools from prep up to Tertiary are using animation software. In Victoria we are provided with a departmental computer image containing a range of program’s. many of these program’s are free software like blender, gimp, monkey jam to name just a few. Why? Because most schools are poorly funded and try to stretch what money they have in their budgets as far as they can. The school I’m at actually has a few licences for Photoshop and I- Clone but that isn’t the norm especially for the younger students. More and more elementary level schools are expected to use technology in their program’s. my grade is in the process of setting up a blog that their parents will be able to access to see what they have been up to. We also use videoing of students reflecting on their learning or for role play and creating animations to explain their learning. Just so you know my grade is 1/2 students so we are talking 6-8 year olds.

JasmineSkunk - 26 June 2013 12:04 PM

*Waves madly!* Hiya, Pen!  :- ) {hugs}

waves madly back….missed seeing you around…hugs Pen

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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Male-M3dia - 26 June 2013 06:18 PM

Actually I do make what I want, however too many times you see posts where people say they want something, you give it to them and they either don’t buy it or stick on their wishlists, so it ends up a waste of my time where I could be making something else. Even worse is when you provide something and someone says “I’ll wait until it’s 50% off.” PAs don’t create items for sale for them to be deeply discounted; that’s also a waste of their time. They attempt to provide things that customers want at a price that they think is fair for the time they’ve invested in it.

Well, you make mostly characters (morphs and skins). So, those I pick up if I need a certain skin tone. I’m an impulse buyer myself. Now if I could get decent medieval and fantasywear that is not skimp/skankwear for males (and sometimes for females) I am almost 100% likely to purchase those as impulse buys no matter the price simply because I love doing those types of renders.

I do want to thank you for Ashley though. He was a MUST buy for me. The Wagner bundle is likely to be bought by me on the 1st as he looks like he would make an excellent medieval baron.

However, that being said, I am unlikely to buy any clothing or bundles for Genesis 2 until such a time as I can justify spending on both the figures and the required morphs required to make both the male and female versions as morphable as Genesis original.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 03:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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Returning to the topic of the thread I’d add a wee bit of skepticism to the claim in alleged DAZ publicity letter.

1. To be the most successful DAZ release to date in absolute terms V6 had to sell in excess of 3 million during the first few days. I’m not saying she didn’t, but that kind of blockbuster generally makes larger waves than a letter to some customers. It’s Windows 7 or iPhone league stuff. The New York Times shouldn’t have missed it, or at least the Wall Street Journal.
2. If DAZ is so profoundly successful in professional markets that it could entirely ignore hobbyists, and if those wholesale-buying professionals do not read or participate in forums, then we at least should see a lot of specialized trade publications or at least high profile blogs. I haven’t seen any. I highly doubt Fortune 500 companies will buy a lot V6 Basic Underwear without solid trade mag to explain why they should do so.
3. While the idea that schools are the deciding factor that lets DAZ safely ignore existing user base deserves merit, I’m not sure the schools are that good customer for 3D content. I’m somewhat familiar with the budget policies and acquisitions at schools. Usually it takes several years to approve the software. So schools might get DS 4.6 and Genesis 2 now, but they won’t be buying any additional content beyond what they get in an initial bundle for several years.

I write all this in response to posts that claim us being small and unimportant people, our protests unheard, our complaints pointless. DAZ might ignore the response to Genesis 2 release to their own peril, but that doesn’t mean people posting here aren’t core base of its business. 

To answer MaleM3dia’s arguments somewhat - I was supporting Genesis 1 heavily. I spent several thousands buying lots of stuff. And much good did it to me. During March Madness I spent some $2000 in hope that this was a road ahead only to learn that Genesis 2 is not Genesis at all a couple of months later. After a lesson like this I would be stupid to repeat it with V6. I’d buy G2 kid stuff though, because Genesis never had any kids anyway.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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vienastoks - 27 June 2013 03:06 AM

Returning to the topic of the thread I’d add a wee bit of skepticism to the claim in alleged DAZ publicity letter.

1. To be the most successful DAZ release to date in absolute terms V6 had to sell in excess of 3 million during the first few days. I’m not saying she didn’t, but that kind of blockbuster generally makes larger waves than a letter to some customers. It’s Windows 7 or iPhone league stuff. The New York Times shouldn’t have missed it, or at least the Wall Street Journal.

Obviously DAZ 3D was talking in respect of DAZ 3D releases , so your comparison is rather specious

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Posted: 27 June 2013 04:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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chohole - 27 June 2013 04:10 AM

Obviously DAZ 3D was talking in respect of DAZ 3D releases , so your comparison is rather specious

I was referring to Victoria 4 as the most successful previous DAZ release. I’ve seen 3 million figure quoted in several places, including, I think, Scott’s writeup on DAZ base character history.

I am sorry I didn’t make this clear enough.

It is possible, that the claim was made on relative data (eg. sales during the first few days), but then it wasn’t made clear by DAZ, and I don’t think that a few days make a substantial enough base for such claim.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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Obviously V6 couldn’t have beaten the sales of V4 over her entire life - that’s what the 3 million figure is - not the release period sales. That would be a ludicrous claim.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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Wasn’t the base V4 free? 

Victoria 6 costs $27.96 (30% off) / $19.59 (51% off PC) and includes the Victoria 6 body/head morphs and the Belle texture.


The Victoria 4.0 Complete bundle cost $24.48 on 2006-12-08.  I’m sure that was just a 30% release discount.  It included
Victoria 4.0 Base
Morphs ++ (which included the genitalia)
Developer Kit
Standard Res Skin Maps
Amarseda Hair
Basicwear for V4


The Victoria 6 Starter bundle costs $55.97 (30% off) / $39.18 (51% off PC) and includes
Victoria 6
Caped Rogue
Garden Party Dress
Nocturne Poses for V6
Nordic Hair
Charm Hair
Nyssa


The Victoria 6 Pro bundle costs $87.47 (30% off) / $61.23 (51% off PC) and includes
Victoria 6
Caped Rogue
Garden Party Dress
Nocturne Poses for V6
Nordic Hair
Charm Hair
Nyssa
String Bikini for Victoria 6
Darkwoods Heroine
Club 58 Dress
Sweet Emotion V6
Casual Sexy Poses for Genesis 2 Female(s)
Udane Hair
Fashion Hair
Norma
Vianne for Victoria 6
Genesis 2 Female(s) Genitalia

I didn’t purchase Victoria 5 until that massive sale in October.  The Victoria 5 Pro Bundle cost $52.48 (58% off) on 2012-10-24.  The base price on the Victoria 5 Pro Bundle and the Victoria 6 Pro Bundle are the same, but I don’t remember if there was an additional discount beyond the 30% release discount on release.  The V5 Pro Bundle included

Victoria 5
Genesis Female Geo-Grafted Genitalia
Gabi for V5
Tori for V5
Chelsea Hair
Hampton Hair
Pure Hair Bubblegum
Alruna
Magna Hart for Genesis
SciFi Bunny For Genesis
Sexy Silky For Genesis
Expressive for Genesis
Handy for Genesis
Pin Up Poses for V5
Posed for Victoria 5
V5 General Poses (15 Victoria 5 Poses)


Dollar wise, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that DAZ gets more money from a sale of V6 / V6 bundle than they did with a sale of V4 / V4 bundle.  Whether DAZ got more money from a V5 sale than V6 sale depends on whether V5 had a 30% or 51% discount on release.

Considering there SHOULD be far more customers now than there were in 2006, I’d think the volume of sales would be greater. 


Comparing V4 to V6 is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.  V4 is a base figure, V6 is a character for the Genesis 2 base figure.

jimzombie - 27 June 2013 04:45 AM

Obviously V6 couldn’t have beaten the sales of V4 over her entire life - that’s what the 3 million figure is - not the release period sales. That would be a ludicrous claim.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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jimzombie - 25 June 2013 06:52 AM

@ Kyoto Kid: It would be great to see a solid Bryce 8, and an updated Hexagon. As far as dedicated modelling goes Hexagon is very good. It has a number of features I’d like to see in my current app of choice. I would have been quite happy with Hex as is, but it is particularly unstable on my machine. I would have to take models from Hex into Carrara to fix problems that made Hex crash.

Personally, I’m a fan of G2. I don’t see how the fantasy outfits that came with V6 pro are slutwear, and the bikini, well that’s just standard issue stuff. The bundle is by no means great, and I would have preferred the morphs to any amount of fantasy garb, but you know it isn’t entirely up to DAZ what gets bundled with what.  I will say that the rollout of content has been less than thrilling.

I think if DAZ has become more complex over the years that can only be a good thing, especially as all that extra complexity does not interfere with the otherwise simple workflow. I’m not sure how IDL is complicated, and all that subd stuff is pretty much invisible to the average user. Good SSS can be hard to setup, but with the right texture maps and materials (often provided) it is pretty much apply and render.

@ chohole: Carrara might be getting some development, but when you put it up against other similar programs it feels like the poor cousin. Just about any Carrara user here will tell you the beta process has been long and painful. I’d be interested to see the feature list for 9, but as far as I know one isn’t publicly available.

I could probably have learnt to use Carrara in time, but the program I took up as an alternative was much easier to use and learn. As someone with a keen interest in modelling I was quite disappointed by Carrara’s interface in this respect. It has some great tools, some that aren’t in my current program of choice, but finding my way around the user interface just never happened. If DAZ updates the interface and modelling tools I think it would be a fantastic program, but it seems the focus is on DAZ content compatibility and bells and whistles. I like content, and I like shiny, but I prefer modelling tools.

great to read, that i ‘m not the only one that share this opinion.
if you follow the developers list, you will see what ‘s dead and what not or what’s more important.
a few years ago, i play with carrara too, got free version 6 with magazine update to 7 and 8 and left.
why? because not enough improvement. seriously take a note on carrara today and take a view to blender.
do we need more words?
i saved money on tutorials,content and bought me a version of modo, best money i’ve spend in my 3d hobby.
(modo+zbrush) you can’t find any better today.
now i only wait on a good working studio version for animation so i can use it in my pipeline or a dson to modo.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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@Satira Capriccio: What, why am I quoted here? I think you’re figures for the Victoria products are off. I doubt they are more expensive now then at release. There was actually a lot more stuff in the V4 pro bundle http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-2-pro-bundle - lot more expensive than what you’ve got down too. Historicaly DAZ characters are getting cheaper, not more expensive. V1 cost almost 200 bucks.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 06:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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jimzombie - 27 June 2013 04:45 AM

Obviously V6 couldn’t have beaten the sales of V4 over her entire life - that’s what the 3 million figure is - not the release period sales. That would be a ludicrous claim.

Actually shouldn’t the comparison of V6 be for A4, S4, or G4?  V6 is nothing more than a morph set for G2F the same as those others are morph sets of V4.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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fixme12 - 27 June 2013 05:54 AM

great to read, that i ‘m not the only one that share this opinion.
if you follow the developers list, you will see what ‘s dead and what not or what’s more important.
a few years ago, i play with carrara too, got free version 6 with magazine update to 7 and 8 and left.
why? because not enough improvement. seriously take a note on carrara today and take a view to blender.
do we need more words?
i saved money on tutorials,content and bought me a version of modo, best money i’ve spend in my 3d hobby.
(modo+zbrush) you can’t find any better today.
now i only wait on a good working studio version for animation so i can use it in my pipeline or a dson to modo.

Modo and zBrush are great programs. I’ve got myself LightWave, but would love to pick up zBrush when I can afford another expensive app. I don’t like saving money on tutorials though, I find them too useful and they pay for themselves in skills.

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