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Genesis 2 female / Victoria 6 has no numbered surface names
Posted: 23 June 2013 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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That can’t be a major problem. If any plugin is counting on a surface number name to assign material to a material zone then the plugin is very badly done. As it’s not the case, it is at most a little annoyance if you’re changing textures/settings in real time in a 3rd party application instead of doing it in DS where you have the legacy surface and you don’t remember which map goes to which surface. But there is not so much and you can learn them or put a sticky paper on your screen. I really find there is too much negativity about Gen2 on the forum these days and often for minor things.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 07:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Posted: 24 June 2013 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I will add my support for linvanchene here.

The removal of the Skin prefix broke a good portion of my Maya scripts. I will have to spend time fixing this when I could spend that time working. Between this and other issues I think I will postpone the integration of the new figure into my pipeline.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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linvanchene - 21 June 2013 10:18 AM

Unconveniant is that the new surfaces do not have the numbers in front of them especially when exporting to other applications.

The legacy surfaces had numbers that indicated which surface zones share which map.

That is good to know, thank for the heads-up! I always found the numbers in the materials very annoying. I am a human; when i think about what the materials of the legs could be called i think it should be “Legs” and not “5_Legs” or whatever the number is. When using an exporter, there is some kind of automation or scripting involved anyway, so let the exporter worry about the numbers and which map belongs where. But when using model in another application (e.g. blender) i like to have material names that describe the material zone in human readable form, and to do so seems to be the industry standard anyway and not naming the materials after the texture file which just happens to be assigned to them. So this surely is a step in the right direction. You would not name the body parts 1_Neck, 5_LeftHand, 7_RightHand neither, just because some numbers correspond to some pose files you typically apply to them, would you?

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Posted: 24 June 2013 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Posted: 24 June 2013 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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linvanchene - 24 June 2013 01:19 PM
millighost - 24 June 2013 11:03 AM

When using an exporter, there is some kind of automation or scripting involved anyway, so let the exporter worry about the numbers and which map belongs where.

When you export an .obj to other applications the information which map belongs to which surface zone is stored in the .mtl file.

...

A more conveniant way may be to use a naming system like this:

Face_Lips
Face_Nostrils
Face_SKIN_Face
Torso_Nipple
Torso_SKIN_Head
Torso_SKIN_Ears
Torso_SKIN_Hip
Torso_SKIN_Neck
Torso_SKIN_Torso
Limbs_Fingernails
Limbs_SKIN_Shoulders
Limbs_SKIN_Feet
Limbs_SKIN_Forearms
Limbs_SKIN_Hands
Limbs_SKIN_Legs
Limbs_Toenails
Mouth_Gums
Mouth_InnerMouth
Mouth_Teeth
Mouth_Tongue
Eyes_Cornea
Eyes_Irises
Eyes_Lacrimals
Eyes_Pupils
Eyes_Sclera
Eyelashes
Tear
EyeReflection

This way of naming the surface zones

- used the new surface names of Genesis 2 Female
- adds the old prefix SKIN in front of those surfaces that are part of the skin
- uses the prefixes Face, Torso, Limbs, Mouth, Eyes that are also used by the V6 maps of Belle
- uses addtional surface zones with their own maps are Eyelashes, Tear and Eye Reflection

What do you think about this way of naming the surfaces that includes the prefix of the map name?

Maybe the full prefixes are too long. Numbers are shorter. There must have been some reason why someone came up with the naming convention with numbers the Generation 4 introduced.

- - -

Addtional information:

While comparing Genesis and Genesis 2 Female surface names I also noticed that

- The plural form of all body parts is used
- Skinfoot is now Feet etc
- SkinArms is now Shoulders
- The ears were a part of SkinHead before and now have their own surface zone Ears but are still part of the Torso map.

- - -

Added a screenshot that compares the different surface names of Genesis, Genesis 2 female and the suggestion including V6 map prefixes instead of numbers.

 

To Richard and others at DAZ,

I would like to echo linvanchene and others here in this thread. This problem needs to be addressed to avoid a host of errors and confusion down the road. As 3D figures get better at replicating the look and motion of the human body, competition will increase, and “Ease of Use” is going to be a major factor in people deciding which 3D figure to use. There needs to be a way in Genesis 2 to group related surface names that doesn’t break presets and materials in other programs, doesn’t involve export scripts and other steps that will increase the confusion. I don’t want to prejudge which way works best, but this is a change to Genesis 2 that in a few years you will be glad you made.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Pakmule - 26 June 2013 10:00 AM

It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

They work if you convert them to .duf

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Posted: 27 June 2013 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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fixmypcmike - 26 June 2013 01:09 PM
Pakmule - 26 June 2013 10:00 AM

It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

They work if you convert them to .duf

But watch out! If you make changes in one of the materials on a Genesis 2 Female and save it as a material preset, you can’t apply that preset to Genesis or V4 any more! At least that is my experience. Anyone else have success with that?

I was referred to this thread from my thread here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/24694/#364582.

These new surfaces are turning into a compatibility nightmare. Gotchas everywhere.

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Posted: 28 June 2013 02:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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There’s a script now for changing G2F surfaces to Genesis1 surfaces. It was meant for saving G1-compatible material presets, but it might work for your issues as well.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/24755/

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Posted: 28 June 2013 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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millighost - 24 June 2013 11:03 AM

You would not name the body parts 1_Neck, 5_LeftHand, 7_RightHand neither, just because some numbers correspond to some pose files you typically apply to them, would you?

It isn’t a matter of “corresponding to some pose files”, you’re looking at it the wrong way round. If you group the surfaces with the same number, you have an instant grouping of all the surfaces that use one of the textures applied to the figure.

Look at it this way. A “1” surface means it uses the face texture. A “2” surface is the body texture, “3” is the arms and legs texture, etc. It isn’t random or capricious numbering of the surfaces, it’s a useful reminder built into every single Gen4 or Genesis figure of which surfaces need which textures. Taking the numbers out adds extra work for us users — when the surface names are in alphabetical order, the grouping by texture gets tossed right out the window. And if this is the reason only .duf MATs can be applied to a G2 figure, what about character collections with dozens or a hundred or so MATs?

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Posted: 28 June 2013 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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In external application when speaking of Professionnal Software you must rely on standard. That means conforming to format like FBX, Obj, Alembic, etc and beeing able to read them

With Obj default Maps are defined with Ks, Kd,Ka

The OP is putting them by hand because the software he uses doesn’t even read mtl. That can’t be described as a bug from DAZ.

It could be a feature request. but anybody can redefine the surface naming, it’s up to everyone.

The workaround in this case is easy without script : rename all G2 surface and create surface selection sets with G2 old names so that you keep compatibility with old naming and will be compatible with new naming

It would be better to request a surface selection set in external software as it is a good thing

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Posted: 08 July 2013 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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