Genesis 2 female / Victoria 6 has no numbered surface names

linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
edited November 2013 in DAZ Studio Discussion

edited and removed by user

Post edited by linvanchene on

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,413
    edited December 1969

    You can, if you wish, rename the materials using the Polygon Group Editor in DS. It might even be possible to write a script to do the job that could be run just before export.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,413
    edited December 1969

    Permanently changing the names would break material presets, that's why I was suggesting having a script to do the job as the last step before exporting. The Developer Discussions forum is for scripting.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 1,737
    edited June 2013

    Never mind, late and didn't understand the question on the first reading.

    Post edited by jestmart on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,411
    edited December 1969

    The numbered surfaces only excist on Genesis, M4 and V4. No Generation 3 character has numbered surfaces. However, on the surface tab in DS46, if you look under "Legacy Surfaces" you will see the surfaces for G2F listed by number so you can cross check what belongs with what.

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 1,737
    edited December 1969

    Now I am fully awake and understand the problem. Mattymanx the legacy surfaces are a function of DS's new surface grouping, it doesn't help when exporting G2F to other programs. The number prefixes in the actual surface names for surfaces that share a texture map is a handy time saver. G2F really needs to go back to beta and have this fixed along with adding separate left and right eye surface materials. Maybe even separate left and right surfaces for most of the mesh, after all the morph packs have several asymmetrical left and right morphs.

  • gingercakes47gingercakes47 Posts: 365
    edited December 1969

    I've read the entire thing and am aware of your problem but AFAIK the plug-in creators are always the ones that need to update when there are problems with how it works.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 234
    edited December 1969

    HHUUUUMMMMM....

    I suspect the same issue will occur with the Reality plugin...I must check this out later when I get home from work....

    If it is so, then it will be just ANOTHER reason not to bother with this figure....

    S.K.

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 234
    edited December 1969

    I've read the entire thing and am aware of your problem but AFAIK the plug-in creators are always the ones that need to update when there are problems with how it works.

    This is not a plugin Creators issue, so much as a LOSS of functionality in how GEN 2 material Zones are defined / indentified.

    S.K.

  • SandmanGFXSandmanGFX Posts: 71
    edited December 1969

    HHUUUUMMMMM....

    I suspect the same issue will occur with the Reality plugin...I must check this out later when I get home from work....

    If it is so, then it will be just ANOTHER reason not to bother with this figure....

    S.K.

    I just did a Reality 2 test render of the figure with the default Genesis 2 female materials and another with V6 materials applied.
    The default textures translated really well, the V6 ones only seemed to have some issues with the eyes. I didn't look into it further, so I don't know what material zone is actually affected here, but all in all I don't think there should be a problem using the figure with Reality 2.

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 637
    edited June 2013

    Apparently it's not a big issue for user Paper Tiger over at Renderosity. They posted a very nice nude render of V6 out of DS 4.6 into Octane Render. EDITED OUT link since she's naked.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 935
    edited December 1969

    That can't be a major problem. If any plugin is counting on a surface number name to assign material to a material zone then the plugin is very badly done. As it's not the case, it is at most a little annoyance if you're changing textures/settings in real time in a 3rd party application instead of doing it in DS where you have the legacy surface and you don't remember which map goes to which surface. But there is not so much and you can learn them or put a sticky paper on your screen. I really find there is too much negativity about Gen2 on the forum these days and often for minor things.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • TralenTralen Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I will add my support for linvanchene here.

    The removal of the Skin prefix broke a good portion of my Maya scripts. I will have to spend time fixing this when I could spend that time working. Between this and other issues I think I will postpone the integration of the new figure into my pipeline.

  • millighostmillighost Posts: 170
    edited December 1969


    Unconveniant is that the new surfaces do not have the numbers in front of them especially when exporting to other applications.

    The legacy surfaces had numbers that indicated which surface zones share which map.

    That is good to know, thank for the heads-up! I always found the numbers in the materials very annoying. I am a human; when i think about what the materials of the legs could be called i think it should be "Legs" and not "5_Legs" or whatever the number is. When using an exporter, there is some kind of automation or scripting involved anyway, so let the exporter worry about the numbers and which map belongs where. But when using model in another application (e.g. blender) i like to have material names that describe the material zone in human readable form, and to do so seems to be the industry standard anyway and not naming the materials after the texture file which just happens to be assigned to them. So this surely is a step in the right direction. You would not name the body parts 1_Neck, 5_LeftHand, 7_RightHand neither, just because some numbers correspond to some pose files you typically apply to them, would you?

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • MrWizard1024MrWizard1024 Posts: 51
    edited December 1969

    When using an exporter, there is some kind of automation or scripting involved anyway, so let the exporter worry about the numbers and which map belongs where.

    When you export an .obj to other applications the information which map belongs to which surface zone is stored in the .mtl file.

    ...

    A more conveniant way may be to use a naming system like this:

    Face_Lips
    Face_Nostrils
    Face_SKIN_Face
    Torso_Nipple
    Torso_SKIN_Head
    Torso_SKIN_Ears
    Torso_SKIN_Hip
    Torso_SKIN_Neck
    Torso_SKIN_Torso
    Limbs_Fingernails
    Limbs_SKIN_Shoulders
    Limbs_SKIN_Feet
    Limbs_SKIN_Forearms
    Limbs_SKIN_Hands
    Limbs_SKIN_Legs
    Limbs_Toenails
    Mouth_Gums
    Mouth_InnerMouth
    Mouth_Teeth
    Mouth_Tongue
    Eyes_Cornea
    Eyes_Irises
    Eyes_Lacrimals
    Eyes_Pupils
    Eyes_Sclera
    Eyelashes
    Tear
    EyeReflection

    This way of naming the surface zones

    - used the new surface names of Genesis 2 Female
    - adds the old prefix SKIN in front of those surfaces that are part of the skin
    - uses the prefixes Face, Torso, Limbs, Mouth, Eyes that are also used by the V6 maps of Belle
    - uses addtional surface zones with their own maps are Eyelashes, Tear and Eye Reflection

    What do you think about this way of naming the surfaces that includes the prefix of the map name?

    Maybe the full prefixes are too long. Numbers are shorter. There must have been some reason why someone came up with the naming convention with numbers the Generation 4 introduced.

    - - -

    Addtional information:

    While comparing Genesis and Genesis 2 Female surface names I also noticed that

    - The plural form of all body parts is used
    - Skinfoot is now Feet etc
    - SkinArms is now Shoulders
    - The ears were a part of SkinHead before and now have their own surface zone Ears but are still part of the Torso map.

    - - -

    Added a screenshot that compares the different surface names of Genesis, Genesis 2 female and the suggestion including V6 map prefixes instead of numbers.

    To Richard and others at DAZ,

    I would like to echo linvanchene and others here in this thread. This problem needs to be addressed to avoid a host of errors and confusion down the road. As 3D figures get better at replicating the look and motion of the human body, competition will increase, and "Ease of Use" is going to be a major factor in people deciding which 3D figure to use. There needs to be a way in Genesis 2 to group related surface names that doesn't break presets and materials in other programs, doesn't involve export scripts and other steps that will increase the confusion. I don't want to prejudge which way works best, but this is a change to Genesis 2 that in a few years you will be glad you made.

    MrWizard1024

  • kurt_8d28cd51c0kurt_8d28cd51c0 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,673
    edited December 1969

    Pakmule said:
    It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

    They work if you convert them to .duf

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 3,411
    edited December 1969

    Pakmule said:
    It also appears to break all the elite textures that still worked with Genesis. You can still use them but it is a very manual process.

    They work if you convert them to .duf


    But watch out! If you make changes in one of the materials on a Genesis 2 Female and save it as a material preset, you can't apply that preset to Genesis or V4 any more! At least that is my experience. Anyone else have success with that?

    I was referred to this thread from my thread here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24694/#364582.

    These new surfaces are turning into a compatibility nightmare. Gotchas everywhere.

  • BlackFeather1973BlackFeather1973 Posts: 739
    edited June 2013

    There's a script now for changing G2F surfaces to Genesis1 surfaces. It was meant for saving G1-compatible material presets, but it might work for your issues as well.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24755/

    Post edited by BlackFeather1973 on
  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 3,263
    edited December 1969

    You would not name the body parts 1_Neck, 5_LeftHand, 7_RightHand neither, just because some numbers correspond to some pose files you typically apply to them, would you?

    It isn't a matter of "corresponding to some pose files", you're looking at it the wrong way round. If you group the surfaces with the same number, you have an instant grouping of all the surfaces that use one of the textures applied to the figure.

    Look at it this way. A "1" surface means it uses the face texture. A "2" surface is the body texture, "3" is the arms and legs texture, etc. It isn't random or capricious numbering of the surfaces, it's a useful reminder built into every single Gen4 or Genesis figure of which surfaces need which textures. Taking the numbers out adds extra work for us users — when the surface names are in alphabetical order, the grouping by texture gets tossed right out the window. And if this is the reason only .duf MATs can be applied to a G2 figure, what about character collections with dozens or a hundred or so MATs?

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 935
    edited June 2013

    In external application when speaking of Professionnal Software you must rely on standard. That means conforming to format like FBX, Obj, Alembic, etc and beeing able to read them

    With Obj default Maps are defined with Ks, Kd,Ka

    The OP is putting them by hand because the software he uses doesn't even read mtl. That can't be described as a bug from DAZ.

    It could be a feature request. but anybody can redefine the surface naming, it's up to everyone.

    The workaround in this case is easy without script : rename all G2 surface and create surface selection sets with G2 old names so that you keep compatibility with old naming and will be compatible with new naming

    It would be better to request a surface selection set in external software as it is a good thing

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 617
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel