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Genesis 2 is not Genesis
Posted: 24 June 2013 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 06:36 AM
HeraldOfFire - 23 June 2013 11:39 PM

I’ll be honest, in terms of musculature I can often get better results out of V5 simply because the morphs are there right now. V6 is limited to V6 morphs, and because they’re very female-oriented, there’s generally less definition for much of them in terms of muscle.

It’s not about being muscle bound, its about how human anatomy works. You can look at an anatomy book and see how even thin women have muscle groups.

I was referring more to the simple fact that right now V6 just doesn’t have many morphs for it. As-is, she’s very basic and even the morph packs don’t really add much in the way of definition. Genesis already has that support and more.

larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 06:36 AM

Just cause you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there. And because you can’t see it you’re not convinced, which is fine. But ultimately even if you did see it, not sure you would care.

That just really implies that the differences are extremely subtle, and still doesn’t actually tell me that you can’t do identical morphs using a unisex figure. I can accept there are a number of improvements overall, even if I can’t spot them myself, but there has yet to be any mention of why they couldn’t do both male and female figures in the same way they did with Genesis 1.

larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 06:36 AM

Pose doesn’t need to be extreme. Probably not appropriate for kids but Gen can just sit down on a chair with her legs spread. Or bend over a bit. And the knees, elbows and underarm are better as well. The underarm is one of the most noticeable improvements.

People like to conveniently forget that Genesis 1 already had correction morphs done by dozens of different PAs to fix a good number of these issues. Zev0’s sets alone can vastly improve the bending on the original mesh, and all without losing any of the flexibility Genesis provided.

larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 06:36 AM

Just use Gen1. You haven’t lost anything. For me if Daz really felt that ditching the unisex figure was needed to get the improvements I got, I’m fine with that.

The issue is that as much as I want to make use of the new figure, there are just too many obstacles in my path to achieving that goal. A true ‘Genesis’ update with a unisex figure and the morphs that the original had would have been instantly welcomed into my runtime. At the very least they could have given us some better options for changing character height rather than ugly scaling.

larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 06:36 AM

But just like how Cookie is still a viable character I don’t see why Genesis isn’t. I don’t fault people for not wanting Genesis2. I didn’t want it so soon either, but after working with her shortly I saw the advantage and was happy to have it in my hands. At the same time I can see why others see the improvements minor, but for me there is no turning back because I see the distinct advantages.

I agree that Genesis still has legs, but I’ve seen this game before and PA’s will slowly but surely be migrating their focus towards the new generation of figures. When this happens it will simply be a case of migrating ourselves or watching content stagnate. Aside from a select few, there aren’t many vendors who supply Genesis items outside of the Daz website. Rendo is a largely Poser based community if the content and forums there are anything to go by, and many of them still use V4 simply because the they have issues with DSON imports.

As of now there’s no Michael 6, but I assure you that when he arrives we’re going to see considerably fewer items for the older generation.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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@ HeraldOfFire There is another thread where people are reviewing the new morphs for GN2 and some find them better to the ones that came for the original genesis. There is more detail. But I wasn’t even talking about morph packs, the base figure is better than the last base figure. And that is good.

As I’ve said many times, I could care less about the whole unisex battle. It has been decided, and not by me. I do care about a better female figure more than I do about her wearing mens clothing, or her natively morphing into a man. I can morph her into a man already if I needed.

However I must call out that I did not conveniently forget about correction morphs for V4 or Genesis. I have many. So I have plenty of experience in the area….Granted all mine were dedicated to fixing issues for V5/Genesis Female or V4. I didn’t have any unisex fixes.

I do have Zev’s stuff, and I can frankly say I never tried them on men. I do think from his promotional artwork you could see he was showing off the benefits on women more than men…means nothing probably. Or something maybe.

I will say that the correction morphs I have don’t work as well as I would like, especially the crotch, so I find Genesis 2 female a better solution for myself. Based on my experience that is not trying to pretend things don’t exist. There is value to most of the correction morphs I have in some way, but because I was able to do a few test poses with the stock Genesis2 female and see I didn’t need to dial in morphs to fix areas I found that to be a time saver. (or at least I don’t think I’ll be dialing in fixes as regularly) And I grinned a bit.

I can still use Zevs bend morphs If I really want to. PA’s correction morphs have some challenges in their own regard, for examples bend fix really just doesn’t work on a few of my characters. (other correction morphs also have issues too, so it’s not exclusive to this product) It’s probably because of how the characters are morphed. But when I dialed one of my characters into Genesis2 and bend them over they look fine. So for me I’ve got a better bending figure than before including Genesis+ bend fixes from a few venders.

This conversation reminds me of when I was first using genesis and poser users would message me on dA for no reason other than to tell me they could do everything I could with Genesis with V4 and poser, and correction morphs of course. Meanwhile we have had threads in the forum not too long ago that daz should correct the native figure so fewer correction morphs were needed.

I’m glad they opted to improve the base product and not just leave it up to buying correction morphs.

(and of course, being a 3d figure, she’s still not perfect.)

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Posted: 24 June 2013 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 24 June 2013 04:01 PM

...but there has yet to be any mention of why they couldn’t do both male and female figures in the same way they did with Genesis 1…..

I can only assume you have me on ignore mode then.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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Gedd - 24 June 2013 04:31 PM
HeraldOfFire - 24 June 2013 04:01 PM

...but there has yet to be any mention of why they couldn’t do both male and female figures in the same way they did with Genesis 1…..

I can only assume you have me on ignore mode then.

And MallenLane.

The reason they couldn’t do both genders in one mesh as they did with Genesis was they wanted to optimize the mesh [number of polys, edge flow, etcetera] and rigging for the different genders, and have more realistic human bases to build from. You can’t really do that for both males and females at the same time.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 06:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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For everyone who was wondering, Here they are side by side. From right to left, they are Victoria 4 for Genesis, Victoria 5, and Victoria 6. I used a base toon shader and the same outfit for everyone so you can see the geometry side by side. I apologize for v6 having on a different swimsuit, but the one I had for the other two had some fit issues, so I went with her bikini so you can see her form properly

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Posted: 24 June 2013 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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will2power - 24 June 2013 06:19 PM

For everyone who was wondering, Here they are side by side. From right to left, they are Victoria 4 for Genesis, Victoria 5, and Victoria 6. I used a base toon shader and the same outfit for everyone so you can see the geometry side by side. I apologize for v6 having on a different swimsuit, but the one I had for the other two had some fit issues, so I went with her bikini so you can see her form properly

Thanks for that, even with a toon shader I can see the details in V6…and toon shaders are known for washing stuff like that out.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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larsmidnatt - 24 June 2013 04:23 PM

the base figure is better than the last base figure. And that is good.

But not good enough!, The original post in this thread is still valid. Every generations base figure is better than the previous one, so the fact that this one is better is, quite frankly, irrelevant!

Genesis 2, or better, G6, is not an upgrade of the Genesis figure, it is an updrade of the V4 figure, since there was not truly a V5. No, there wasn’t. The existing V5 was a Genesis Morph package, and a darn good one, but it was not a Victoria base model. It was a Genesis base model. The so-called Genesis 2 is a Victoria base model and NOT a Genesis base model. If it were a Genesis base model, it would have both male and female original morphs. It does not. It has only the female.
The fact is that they called it Genesis 2 so they could promote it off the success of Genesis. The V6 package is just a more Victoria-like morph set that should have been a part of the initial release. In calling these items Genesis 2 and Victoria 6, they are tricking you into excepting a shoddy “quick-release” V6 as a “magnificent upgrade” of Genesis. Then the ‘finished’ V6 comes along as it should have originally been done, and everyone stands in line, exclaiming “ooooo, aaaah, wow, I got get me one of those!”

The advertising department, once again, streams to the top of their profession because they pulled the wool over so many eyes so that they could go back to selling individual items for every different model.
I bet you still think your paying $3.59 at the pump for gas and not $3.60, which is effectively what $3.5999 is.
Congratulations and hats off to the Advertising Department for yet another financial coup.

Did you think that Hiro 5 outfit only worked for Hiro 5? They added Hiro 5 on the list of compatible figures next to Genesis to fool you, and it worked. That outfit works on Hiro 5, Stephanie 5, Michael 5 and on the Undead Fiend! it works on EVERY Genesis morph set.
Will we able to do the same thing on Genesis 2?
No!!!
Why?
Because Genesis 2 is not a Genesis base model!

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Posted: 24 June 2013 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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Some great points in this thread. i am a big supporter of genesis 1 and it’s ability to use V4 morphs and other figures clothing. I made a significant investment with genesis and DS 4.0/5 in thinking it was the future of DS and DAZ, now I am having to increase that investment by much more and lose much of the functionality I already have to use the new figure,........ that is unacceptable IMO.

I know I can stick with genesis 1 for now as mentioned in this thread, but in time, probably shorter than I would like, that support will be gone with a new version of DS, not to mention less and less items in any store for genesis 1.
I have read many of the posts from MallenLane and applaud them for creating more functionality with genesis 2 and for providing some support for V4 with the new figure, BUT it should have been DAZ doing that!!

To be honest, I really don’t have much trust or faith in DAZ at the moment. Genesis is/was grand new technology and a pleasure to work with. I felt like genesis 1 was just starting to gain traction and now they want me to buy into a new version, Where are the reassurances that in the same short amount of time I will not be asked to support genesis 4 or 5. I am all for investing in advancement and new technology, but so far, much of the functionality in genesis 2 seems like a step or 5 backwards.

I understand business and work in retail myself, but I am really feeling foolish for supporting this company at the moment.. I guess i will stick with what I have and see where this goes and maybe hit same good sales in the future to try and justify all this.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 08:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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It seams to me now that Daz has burnt their candle at both ends. With Genesis they upset the Poser users and with Genesis 2 they upset the Daz Studio users. Well not all of them of course. Anyhoot it will be interesting to see where Daz goes from here. As for myself I bought the Gn2F/V6 Package but will refrain from purchasing any further Gen2 content until I know what is the future of Genesis. I saw Xena’s new outfit Wicked Cutout just released into the store and thought would also look hot on my Gn boys (hey boys want to look sexy too) but alas it’s for Gn2F so will have to pass on it. Sigh!

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Posted: 24 June 2013 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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larsmidnatt - 23 June 2013 09:47 PM
SereneNight - 23 June 2013 09:28 PM

My disappointment- so far- has been with her clothing line, which doesn’t seem to be much more real than genesis 1,


I would agree here for different reasons. They aren’t pushing the envelope at all and I haven’t purchased anything outside the bundle. In this day and age I think that hair should not need so many baked in highlights, some of the initial hair for Genes2 is very toony and outdated.

They can sell me fantasy and sexy clothes all day, but they didn’t really try yet. It’s the same style stuff we have seen a lot of in this store. Make better form fitting clothing that you couldn’t in the past and not sell me 6 variations of the same under garments.

There is more creative female clothing at that other store. Too bad it’s all for V4 and won’t take advantage of how nice Gen2 is rigged. Maybe autofit will work ok…

Not happy that a female was released first but that is the history of DAZ and how they release things but Genesis 02 is really Genesis with some updates.  That’s all.  Thanks to Kattey and Ben and other helpful folks I’ve been able to get all of my Bruno and Female shapes over to Gene-02F.  Took a little while to figure out the best work flow but after that it was pretty easy.  Tedious but easy. 

As for a lack of wardrobe .... well MallenLane made a really nice extra for Gene-02F that converts V4’s clothing and shoes over very nicely.  At least the few items I’ve tested out.  One is particular that I was a little nervous about was B9999’s Warrior Princess.  It’s got some boots.  Well we all know the short history of shoes and how they DON’T convert very well over from Gen 4 figures.  Seems ALLOT better.  I’m impressed. I looked over the mesh afterwards and can’t say I need to pop open ZBrush at all for them.  MallenLane is a genius as far as I’m concerned.  I’ve read that a few folks ran into issues using her helper files but for me so far it’s all good.  I just dial up the V4 shape, convert, dial out the V4 shape and then dial up what ever shape I want afterwards.  Can’t be much easier than that really! 

There are some niggles I do have.  The surfaces tab is really a mess with all the weird new options that are crammed in there.  It will take me some time to get used to that.  YUK! 

Here is the Warrior Princess using my own shape I made in ZBrush called Strong Girl and the face is a mix of Shay and Ruthe!

 

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Posted: 24 June 2013 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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I don’t see myself buying any Genesis 2 stuff unless they eventually make kids and teens. I am quite happy with the original Genesis figure and its versatility.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 10:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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RAMWolff - 24 June 2013 09:52 PM
larsmidnatt - 23 June 2013 09:47 PM
SereneNight - 23 June 2013 09:28 PM

My disappointment- so far- has been with her clothing line, which doesn’t seem to be much more real than genesis 1,


I would agree here for different reasons. They aren’t pushing the envelope at all and I haven’t purchased anything outside the bundle. In this day and age I think that hair should not need so many baked in highlights, some of the initial hair for Genes2 is very toony and outdated.

They can sell me fantasy and sexy clothes all day, but they didn’t really try yet. It’s the same style stuff we have seen a lot of in this store. Make better form fitting clothing that you couldn’t in the past and not sell me 6 variations of the same under garments.

There is more creative female clothing at that other store. Too bad it’s all for V4 and won’t take advantage of how nice Gen2 is rigged. Maybe autofit will work ok…

Not happy that a female was released first but that is the history of DAZ and how they release things but Genesis 02 is really Genesis with some updates.  That’s all.  Thanks to Kattey and Ben and other helpful folks I’ve been able to get all of my Bruno and Female shapes over to Gene-02F.  Took a little while to figure out the best work flow but after that it was pretty easy.  Tedious but easy. 

As for a lack of wardrobe .... well MallenLane made a really nice extra for Gene-02F that converts her clothing and shoes over very nicely.  At least the few items I’ve tested out.  One is particular that I was a little nervous about was B9999’s Warrior Princess.  It’s got some boots.  Well we all know the short history of shoes and how they DON’T convert very well over from Gen 4 figures.  Seems ALLOT better.  I’m impressed. I looked over the mesh afterwards and can’t say I need to pop open ZBrush at all for them.  MallenLane is a genius as far as I’m concerned.  I’ve read that a few folks ran into issues using her helper files but for me so far it’s all good.  I just dial up the V4 shape, convert, dial out the V4 shape and then dial up what ever shape I want afterwards.  Can’t be much easier than that really! 

There are some niggles I do have.  The surfaces tab is really a mess with all the weird new options that are crammed in there.  It will take me some time to get used to that.  YUK! 

Here is the Warrior Princess using my own shape I made in ZBrush called Strong Girl and the face is a mix of Shay and Ruthe!

 

Oh, lovely render. Very realistic. I agree about the surface tabs, I confess, I do not know exactly what all those options are. :Sighs:

I’m gong to have to now look in the store for v4 clothing. I’ve come to realize my library for female clothings, especially more practical garb is kind of scanty (Er, no pun intended).

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Posted: 24 June 2013 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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LycanthropeX - 20 June 2013 03:30 PM

Mega Ultra Morph? so you want to call her Mum?


Oooh, I like that!  Kinda catchy!

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Posted: 24 June 2013 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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Thanks for the nice compliment SereneNight! grin

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Posted: 04 September 2013 03:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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I feel like almost everything in the Shop is geared around female characters. I was trying to create a male character to use as a reference for some of my artists (I’m designing a science fiction card game) and it was frustrating trying to figure out what products would work with the Male Genesis figure, or even to find things that were specifically designed for males.

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