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Genesis 2 is not Genesis
Posted: 23 June 2013 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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I’ve been misquoted!!!  ;p

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Just because I may have a strong opinion doesn’t make it any more (or less) correct than any other, just that I feel passionately a particular way at that moment.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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What strikes me as odd about the whole Gen2 -Gen1 discussion is that we all know what the reason for Gen1 was - A uni-mesh basis for all characters which allowed for auto-fitting of all accessories and clothing even with extreme morphing.  Except possibly shoes *cough*.  This was a step forward from the V4 model where male clothing was entirely separate from female.  And I am also aware of the limitations that came up - the compromises involved made for less photo-realistic straight human characters.

OK, so Gen2/V6 is an attempt to fix this.  But there already IS something that fixes it, it is called V4.  So don’t tell me how Genesis 2 is better than Genesis 1.  Tell me how supposedly it is better than V4, and why I should go through all the contortions necessary to move V4 mats, morphs and clothing to it since I have a huge amount of it.

I already am using the Genesis 1 family for what it is extremely good at - and intend to keep doing so.  Can somebody make the case of why V6 is better than V4?  I really don’t care about V5.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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diogenese19348 - 23 June 2013 12:15 PM

.. the compromises involved ... straight human characters.

...why V6 is better than V4? ...

It wasn’t just human type characters, Trolls, etc.. all benefit from a dedicated mesh if ultimate definition with reasonable efficiency is the goal..

V6 vs V4… same reasons as always, refinement to the product… mesh, weight maps, bending, farther limits it can be pushed to before breaking…

V4 mats should be working on V6 imo, as there are two few that port over. Not having them work out-of-the-box is a mistake I believe. What should be selling Gen6 skins are better product using the new shaders. If that were the case, people would naturally gravitate away from the V4 skins over time, even if it was as easy as using V4 skins in Genesis(1)

As to how much do the refinements matter, that is always a question that varies from person to person, each person in the end has to answer that themselves.

Finally, the differences or lack thereof for any person will reveal themselves as more characters come out using the new form, as people put it through it’s paces and renders come out.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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robkelk - 20 June 2013 04:53 PM
LycanthropeX - 20 June 2013 02:43 AM

I’m waiting for Genesis 3, it can morph into anything !!!!

Mmmmmmm… Genesis Cow…

(Sockratease hasn’t shown up yet - somebody had to say it!)

...and Poser Pro 2014 got the unflatable pony before we did! 

How could Daz let that happen?

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Posted: 23 June 2013 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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My thinking is as that Genesis should be kept for toon & monster creatures as ultra-realism is not required for those figures. Genesis versatility makes it so awesome to dial up many different toons and beasties shapes and have clothes auto-fit them. Then there’s Genesis 2 for the ultra-realistic human forms demanded by a few artists and possibly animators. Game engines require reduced resolution figure so I don’t see how they will gain from Genesis 2. Also I don’t think hobbyist (like myself) care a hoot about ultra-realism. This is why I feel Genesis 2 was released far too early as many tweaks still need to be done for the ultra-realism. I feel, as others have said, the loss of sales for DAZ from the Poser community not adopting Genesis probably hurt Daz enough to release Genesis 2 earlier than it really should be. Anyhoot, once again, that’s just speculation on my part, but I feel quite plausible. Hopefully content creators will keep supporting the uni-mesh of Genesis, but only time and sales figures will tell. Sigh!

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Posted: 23 June 2013 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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GigaBeat - 23 June 2013 07:50 PM

Also I don’t think hobbyist (like myself) care a hoot about ultra-realism.

I’m a hobbyist, and I don’t care about ultrarealism. Hate it actually. But I do appreciate all the benefits from a better rigged female figure that has better defined details.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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larsmidnatt - 23 June 2013 07:55 PM
GigaBeat - 23 June 2013 07:50 PM

Also I don’t think hobbyist (like myself) care a hoot about ultra-realism.

I’m a hobbyist, and I don’t care about ultrarealism. Hate it actually. But I do appreciate all the benefits from a better rigged female figure that has better defined details.

I’m not sure what to say. Better rigging seems to me something more important to animation, which I don’t do, however I will concede that smoother mesh bending around joints is helpful. That’s why weight maps is so wonderful.

I really didn’t like the old figures (generation 3 & 4) mesh deforming around even moderate bends and I had to use Daz Studio deformers (magnets in Poser) to tweak the the mesh into an acceptable shape after posing the figure. Though eventually some content creators did make some reasonable bend fixes / morph injections for that, thanks guys.

Anyhoot what I’m really on about is how Genesis extended the versatility of toon & monster creatures, giving them access to clothes , etc that was only made for human figures. How often I would want DAZ Troll in some awesome armour made for M4 but couldn’t, but with Genesis now I could. That is sooo sweet! But my fear is Genesis 2 is going to break that versatility of Genesis at the cost of some minor improvements requested by a pedantic few.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I wasn’t sold initially, but after i used the free genesis 2 female basic shape for one pose I was sold. I will still use Genesi1 for toons, men and monsters. I won’t invest on other new figures. No need for me.

But I render a lot of women, and in pinup art the bends and musculature of the figure is a big selling point. I usually would morph or photoshop areas that didn’t look right with Genesis. I have a ton of correction morphs and still feel lacking for genesis 1.

While Genesis 2 is not perfect it bends better by default and has some nice details that people will pick out in renders. Not for everyone though.

And Genesis 2 doesn’t brake Genesis at all. i can still load up genesis just fine and load up a troll and put on a toon outfit.

And I don’t do animation, no time for that smile

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Posted: 23 June 2013 08:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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GigaBeat - 23 June 2013 08:18 PM

Anyhoot what I’m really on about is how Genesis extended the versatility of toon & monster creatures, giving them access to clothes , etc that was only made for human figures. How often I would want DAZ Troll in some awesome armour made for M4 but couldn’t, but with Genesis now I could. That is sooo sweet! But my fear is Genesis 2 is going to break that versatility of Genesis at the cost of some minor improvements requested by a pedantic few.

That’s what I fear as well. I asked days ago and no one could answer me what in Genesis 2 compensates for the big limitations it has compared to Genesis.
It feels like returning to the same stuff from like 10 years ago but incompatible with Poser. :/

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Posted: 23 June 2013 09:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I am sold on genesis 2/Victoria 6, personally as well.  She just looks more realistic to me especially the new facial expressions. The old genesis can look sort of blank there, or her facial expressions look really insipid and not real.  I also really love the hands and the way her mouth looks.

My disappointment- so far- has been with her clothing line, which doesn’t seem to be much more real than genesis 1, and seems to be mostly impractical or fantasy clothing. Since I do sci-fi renders or family friendly pictures I’m always looking for clothing that has a more everyday, and useful for a variety of female character types.

I also would like a few poses which are more practical as well. Some of the v5 poses seem kind of exaggerated to look pretty or sexy, and this is not always the look I’m looking for when poses female characters, although I confess the poses are great. Really. Lots of effort ther.e

In general though, I can honestly say V6 is a win for me. And this is from someone who prefers to render guy characters. Hopefuly the M6 base model will be just as nice.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 09:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Hellboy - 23 June 2013 08:37 PM

I asked days ago and no one could answer me what in Genesis 2 compensates for the big limitations it has compared to Genesis.
:/

I took Genesis 2 for a test spin and saw what was better. So if the free model doesn’t work for you don’t sweat it.  I’m not going to sit around and argue whether they could or should have done it to the original Genesis or not. They didn’t. So I take what they did and review it.

Is Genesis 2 Female better female form then Genesis Female? Yep. And I’m not talking the shapes. I never used V5 and I won’t use V6. But the bending and musculature ARE better in the new figure. Ultimately that is what happened. How they got there is in the past at this point.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 09:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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SereneNight - 23 June 2013 09:28 PM

My disappointment- so far- has been with her clothing line, which doesn’t seem to be much more real than genesis 1,


I would agree here for different reasons. They aren’t pushing the envelope at all and I haven’t purchased anything outside the bundle. In this day and age I think that hair should not need so many baked in highlights, some of the initial hair for Genes2 is very toony and outdated.

They can sell me fantasy and sexy clothes all day, but they didn’t really try yet. It’s the same style stuff we have seen a lot of in this store. Make better form fitting clothing that you couldn’t in the past and not sell me 6 variations of the same under garments.

There is more creative female clothing at that other store. Too bad it’s all for V4 and won’t take advantage of how nice Gen2 is rigged. Maybe autofit will work ok…

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Posted: 23 June 2013 10:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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larsmidnatt - 23 June 2013 09:47 PM
SereneNight - 23 June 2013 09:28 PM

My disappointment- so far- has been with her clothing line, which doesn’t seem to be much more real than genesis 1,


I would agree here for different reasons. They aren’t pushing the envelope at all and I haven’t purchased anything outside the bundle. In this day and age I think that hair should not need so many baked in highlights, some of the initial hair for Genes2 is very toony and outdated.

They can sell me fantasy and sexy clothes all day, but they didn’t really try yet. It’s the same style stuff we have seen a lot of in this store. Make better form fitting clothing that you couldn’t in the past and not sell me 6 variations of the same under garments.

There is more creative female clothing at that other store. Too bad it’s all for V4 and won’t take advantage of how nice Gen2 is rigged. Maybe autofit will work ok…

Yeah, so far, I haven’t been tempted by the gen 2 clothing, hair or textures beyond what came with default vicky. I’ve been autofitting the pieces from my older sets.

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Posted: 23 June 2013 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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larsmidnatt - 23 June 2013 09:42 PM

I took Genesis 2 for a test spin and saw what was better. So if the free model doesn’t work for you don’t sweat it.  I’m not going to sit around and argue whether they could or should have done it to the original Genesis or not. They didn’t. So I take what they did and review it.

Is Genesis 2 Female better female form then Genesis Female? Yep. And I’m not talking the shapes. I never used V5 and I won’t use V6. But the bending and musculature ARE better in the new figure. Ultimately that is what happened. How they got there is in the past at this point.

I’ll be honest, in terms of musculature I can often get better results out of V5 simply because the morphs are there right now. V6 is limited to V6 morphs, and because they’re very female-oriented, there’s generally less definition for much of them in terms of muscle. Because V5’s morphs were designed to be figure independent, they often work better in my opinion, and the sliders can be set as high as you need or as subtle as needed for varying effects.

As for bending, I’ve heard everyone mention it, but I’ve again yet to see it. In fact, there are some poses which seem more awkward on V6 than they did on V5. I’ve run side-by-side comparisons almost tirelessly to try and decide whether it’s really worth my investment in a brand new figure with all-new morphs and an all-new wardrobe. So far for me the only major points of interest have been the extra expression power, and the articulated toes. I’m not sold.

Now it’s possible that the bending issues everyone talks about only occur during the more extreme poses, in which case it doesn’t apply to me anyway as I don’t use such things, but I could concede that it would be beneficial for those who do. The problem as I see it is that every new generation of figure gave significant improvements over the previous generation, and this is the first figure to break that cycle. Sure there are certainly improvements, but they come at the cost of many of the earlier generation’s better features.

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Posted: 24 June 2013 12:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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To be honest, when I saw the debut of Genesis 2, my heart just sank.  I can’t afford to invest in a whole new line while the one I’ve invested in starts to die. 

I have invested so much in Genesis and love it as the most versatile genderless base figure, and now there may be fewer items made for it.  It makes me not want to get on any new bandwagon at Daz.

I wish all the bells as whistles of Genesis 2 had been offered in an option/options to update Genesis, emphasis on optional, of course.  These could even, if necessary, have been options we could have paid for, to generate revenue for Daz, but no.

This is already an expensive hobby, and moves like this are really discouraging, making me think, “Should I get out and cut my losses, or let Daz continue to frequently jack my investments in their technology?” 

Kind of like what the mortgage industry’s greediness did to home values.  Will Genesis not go very much farther up now?

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