Digital Art Zone

 
   
1 of 4
1
How do you deal with 3rd parties who want to see proof that you payed the fee for licensed 3d models?
Posted: 16 June 2013 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  655
Joined  2011-03-26

edited and removed by user

 Signature 

DAZ User Gallery / Facebook / Deviant Art

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3098
Joined  2009-02-24

To be honest, it sounds like the company was trolling you. I’m not sure I’d want to deal with a corporation like that, given a choice.

 Signature 

Find me on DeviantArt
Download my free IBL presets for Luxus
Re-upload of Cresent’s awesome pwToon shaders
Create your own Smart Content

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15695
Joined  2003-10-09

if they are simply not understanding the terms of the EULA, which it appears may be the case given their querying license fees when they’ve already seen that you have purchased, it may be that you need to tell them to open a Copyright Abuse ticket to get the terms explained from the DAZ end.

 Signature 

DAZ Studio Frequently Asked Questions

Index of free DAZ Studio scripts and plugins list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2616
Joined  2007-12-07

Just to play devil’s advocate a moment (as I really think they were wholly draconian and over the top in their demands ...) what would have potentailly happened to them if they had used one of your images in a ‘public airing’ and you had, by mistake, used a background or other product that had a restricted or ‘not for commercial use’ usage associated with it?
Personally I think a simple “please confirm that all components used do not break and terms and conditions” style request would have sufficed.

 Signature 

Some writings by a friend:
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/11.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/13.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/7.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3143
Joined  2004-04-25

What did the contract you signed with client state regarding 3D assets? 

Our clients receive a full and comprehensive list of all assets used and all costs incurred.  All files, including project runtimes, scene files and renders are archived should future questions arise or the client wishes to reuse assets or take the project further.

All software used in a project is also given (along with a full set of time sheets) and if proof the a legally licensed copy was used is provided.  If you have a legally registered copy, any software company will be more than happy to give you a statement verifying this.

As for the use of free models, perhaps the client has had issues with others who have used “free” models that were not free but illegally obtained.

Did you ask the client why they were in need of all this documentation?  If they have been burned in the past, they may be erring on the side of caution.

Without knowing the other side, I can’t make a determination. 

 Signature 

“...not world enough nor time…” 

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4682
Joined  2011-11-25

I recently had someone want to use my art commercially which is the first time this has ever happened to me. Problem was the pictures I used were some of my first hobby work, and the renders in question had free models. I only downloaded freebies which allowed for commercial use, however, sometimes usage terms are not spelled out in readme files or are simply not there or require complicated attribution scheme.. Some content I couldn’t even trace, such as a few 3d apples which could be from anywhere and which all looked alike to me. Since I no longer had the original files, it was impossible to redo with newer content I had bought and paid for, so I was SOL.

I had to decline the use of pictures for which I couldn’t confirm an exact commercial use license or for whom the licensing was too complex or unclear..  This was only right thing to do.  but it brought home the fact that licensing and keeping track of it, is very important.

Fortunately, the person was understanding, however, this taught me a lesson. I no longer use freebie content.

My policy for disclosure is if I pay for an item, I do not feel obligated to disclose what I use in a composition during hobby use, unless I feel like it.  Most 3d artists can see if I use v5 ponytail anyway or if I use someone else’s commercial-use background. This is much the same if I pay to use a piece of clipart or a photo on a brochure. I don’t attribute these items because I pay for them.

If someone buys a render, then people are entitled to know the licensing is in order and a detailed licensing should be available on request.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1949
Joined  2012-02-07

Greetings,
So…this is interesting; I was thinking deeply about this recently, and how to create a database of content fingerprints that would allow you to generate a list of used content automatically.  It wouldn’t handle things like poses which are transient in that they just modify the numbers in your scene, but anything that persists in your scene file like textures or models would work.  It’s possible to make it handle any source, R’osity, RDNA, DAZ3D, and ShareCG, or any others that provide their content in a ZIP format.

It would need to be partially crowd-sourced (although it could be seeded significantly up-front) and it’s not something that can be available ‘tomorrow’, or even ‘s**n’, but it’s definitely doable.

— Morgan

 Signature 

Want wishlist discount notifications, better wishlist sorting, or to see ALL current discounts? http://3dwishlist.com/demo

Look at my deviantArt Gallery, give me feedback and feel free to follow!

This Firefox GreaseMonkey/Chrome Extension tweaks the wishlist and the product pages, adding cool new features to both and cleaning up small UI issues.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4682
Joined  2011-11-25
Cypherfox - 16 June 2013 09:58 AM

Greetings,
So…this is interesting; I was thinking deeply about this recently, and how to create a database of content fingerprints that would allow you to generate a list of used content automatically.  It wouldn’t handle things like poses which are transient in that they just modify the numbers in your scene, but anything that persists in your scene file like textures or models would work.  It’s possible to make it handle any source, R’osity, RDNA, DAZ3D, and ShareCG, or any others that provide their content in a ZIP format.

It would need to be partially crowd-sourced (although it could be seeded significantly up-front) and it’s not something that can be available ‘tomorrow’, or even ‘s**n’, but it’s definitely doable.

— Morgan

I think this would be quite useful.

I admit, this is something I did not think about when I first started using daz.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6134
Joined  2005-08-29

I’ve seen a similar situation many years back when a school was using Macs (with Mac OS 7) and the community IT manager wanted to see the licenses for the OS:es, which there wen’t any as it came with the machines and was not even sold separately, upgrades was free back then.
Ended up getting a written letter from Apple that stated those facts (which saved the school from being assimilated into the Windows borg.

The similarity is, the license was also in the EULA, which neither the IT manager nor the lawyers could read and fully understand.

So I think Richards advise is the best, make them get the info from the source itself.

 Signature 

=============================================
My DAZ Gallery  | The adventures of Lomund
Free RPG adventures for DnD, O:FR and more: http://4eyes.code66.se
Community Volunteer

Proud member of the Bald Wizards Club
I always look on the bright side of life, ‘cause I never expected the Spanish inquisition!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  707
Joined  2008-07-16

Well… recently someone who used my work in a short film was required by the (can’t come up with the right word at the moment)... the festival’s “promotors” to prove they paid for every item used… they requested that I open up my donation box at ShareCG so they could make a donation and prove they paid for the work… they sent me $20 for the item… which was very cool.
Personally I did not expect anything since that was a free item and it clearly stated it was “Free for commercial use”, but it was what the promotor wanted and the person ended up having no choice if the wanted to enter.
I suppose it varies from nation to nation and in some cases people may go over the top just to provide a buffer zone without creating personal liability.

 Signature 

VISIT MY ShareCG FREEBIE GALLERY

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  275
Joined  2003-10-09

Years ago I was caught in a similar situation.  After jumping through all the hoops and challenges such as you describe above, and providing everything they asked, and clearly establishing my rights, I STILL did not get paid.  The company was Eastman Kodak Company (I can say the name because they are now bankrupt) so why would I not have trusted them up front?  This kind of thing happens more than people imagine.

Eventually, I gave up hope of ever getting paid but about a year later, I learned from another vendor that they had been treated the same way, except for a much larger sum of money.  It turns out that Kodak was having money problems and was robbing from Peter to pay Paul - stalling smaller vendors to keep the big ones happy.  I believe they intended to pay, but just did not have the cash and were stalling until “things got better” - which they never did.

Clearly, you are being stalled - most likely for financial reasons, but if your client is a middle-man for another company it could be more complicated.  Bottom line… from my experience (40+ years in the production business) no ethical company would require the level of proof that is described above.  There is something fishy here - I hope you get paid.  Let us know if that happens.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1787
Joined  2005-06-08

Anything that I’m making for commercial use I’ll keep a source list on a spreadsheet that includes the product name, sku if it has one, order number, order date, and site’s url on a spreadsheet — that having been said I keep all my 3D order histories in a spreadsheet, so the info’s already handy.  I like spreadsheets.  Most people don’t, and that ratio’s probably worse for artists.  If some company put me through the ringer linvanchene went through I’d've probably bailed — I wouldn’t've thought of Richard’s solution.

But my commercial work runs more to tshirts and greeting cards — I’ve never had to deal with corporate vetting, and although I understand their need to protect themselves this seems to have gone much farther than necessary for that, and if it’s not in the original contract then I think linvanchene should charge them for the extra work.

Liking the idea of a render-asset tracking app!  Given the info in the DIM DAZ could probably come up with one for DAZStudio without to much trouble — outside of that Cypherfox’s idea sounds good.

 Signature 

~

Hat-wearing member of the Bald Wizards Club

Eyebrow-Free Face Textures — A List

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1854
Joined  2008-02-14

Having worked for legitimate film production companies in the past,  the paper trail expectations noted above are well within normal business practices for commercial distribution and broadcast and publishing.  Errors and omissions insurance requires them to have the documentation. 

DAZ provides invoices for every purchase so keeping track of these licensed assets is atleast doable,  though time consuming. 

 Signature 

PUBLISHED ARTIST
First Bastion’s Environments here at Daz

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  110
Joined  2003-10-13

As for Freebies, some, like my self , include permission for commercial use statements in the Read mes. If that’s not sufficient, well, we may have to come up with a standard EULA for Freebies, I guess.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  12046
Joined  2005-10-07

maybe they don’t understand they are only buying the right to your render?

if they want to use the face of the character you used, for their own uses, i’d imagine they’d have to buy the content ?

 Signature 

Ð tongue laugh ° ° ° ° ° ö Ø

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3143
Joined  2004-04-25
Misty Whisky - 16 June 2013 02:07 PM

maybe they don’t understand they are only buying the right to your render?

if they want to use the face of the character you used, for their own uses, i’d imagine they’d have to buy the content ?

The OP has stated the work was done for a corporation.  That means the work is most likely to be used commercially.  The company is protecting itself since they will be the ones who are sued if their is some violation.  Since they commissioned or otherwise obtained the work, it will then fall to them to pursue the artist.  This means they will have to spend the time and money as defendants on the original suit and then as plaintiffs on a second suit.

To a company, it costs much less in time and money to have all your ducks in a row before you sign the check.

 Signature 

“...not world enough nor time…” 

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 4
1