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A Question about shades of life - nature
Posted: 04 June 2013 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Cybersox13 - 04 June 2013 05:25 PM

I couldn’t help but notice that there aren’t any obvious images where this is done in the samples.

Sorry if the promos didn’t show it well, but there’s a few using multiple materials and instances.  In the big/small scale renders both figures use projection mapping with different textures.  The stone pillar and tree in the chameleon render are different projection materials, as are the rocks and wood in the Treant render.  If the materials in the promos aren’t being projected they’re using the projection shader in UV mode.

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Posted: 04 June 2013 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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DimensionTheory - 04 June 2013 04:44 PM
Richard Haseltine - 04 June 2013 04:18 PM

Does it show correctly in reflections?

Good question, Richard.  Here is a render showing how it behaves, the image is projected from the front and also projects to the back of the sphere.  The sides of the sphere are banded however as the projection is hitting surfaces at an angle there.  Hopefully this is understandable, having it project from each direction to cover bands would be nice but I’m not sure how I’d go about it.

Ah… this image explains a lot. The texture is smearing around the edge of the bend, but the image minimizes this because it’s parallel to the camera (by definition).

The only way I can think of to get the same kind of UV-free functionality and avoid the banding problem (and actually, this would work for animations, too, I think) would be to use Ptex instead. (Not that I’m sure I understand how Ptext works!)

So can you apply the UV-free version to part of an object, e.g. a mat zone, or does it have to be the whole contiguous mesh? What happens if there are unwelded parts? Do you have to make sure to select all of them? Or does it go by node?

This really is cool. Hm. I do get paid Friday…. Peanut butter for the rest of the month! :D

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Posted: 04 June 2013 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 04 June 2013 04:18 PM

Does it show correctly in reflections?

Imho “correctly” is the right word. Yes you can, for sure, but is that reasonable ? If you have to render delicate and well crafted reflexions, be sure camera projection is not the most appropriate technique. This technique, as every others, is not a panacĂ©e. It is good for some projects, not for other ones.

Camera projection was used and over used by professional in the purpose to obtain acceptable results at lowest costs for movies and games, and though it’s replaced today by more sharp techniques (parallaxe objects modelling, vertex texture tesselation, etc…) it returns great results in several cases with few ressources consuming in terms of composition and rendering.

For DAZ Studio users, Camera projections must be perfect for grounds, rocks, hills, trees, walls and street views, and some specific objects. Absolutely not for Victoria.

Imagine you want to build a glorious Spartacus scene, on an old decayed Via Romana looking pavement road. How many millions of polys you have to modelise, How many hours to render them? Just forget it.
You make instead a quick spline object in Carrara, and then “project” on it a Via Appia touristic photo, pre-worked (if I can say) under toshop, and within half an hour you get an “acceptable” 2.5D result, saving a lot of time to spend on your mostly important Freak5 gladiator’s pose and realism.

Just remember DAZ’s early days “Millenium Environment” celebrity.

And, to come back to reflexions, let’s not forget there is somehow a brotherhood with Camera Projection. In some rare situations I remember having used relexions on primitives to resolve some tiling and mapping problemes, of back-camera landscapes and objects.

That being said, I can’t wait to download next friday DT’s shader for testing this week-end, in the hope he will not invent yet another shader next week, lol.

 

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Posted: 04 June 2013 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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zigraphix - 04 June 2013 06:21 PM

The only way I can think of to get the same kind of UV-free functionality and avoid the banding problem (and actually, this would work for animations, too, I think) would be to use Ptex instead. (Not that I’m sure I understand how Ptext works!)

So can you apply the UV-free version to part of an object, e.g. a mat zone, or does it have to be the whole contiguous mesh? What happens if there are unwelded parts? Do you have to make sure to select all of them? Or does it go by node?

I don’t know that Ptex it’s self would help in this situation, as far as I know Ptex isn’t restricted by UVs because it breaks UV space down to individual polys or smooth groups.  It’d really help retain detail etc while baking because it’s essentially spitting out parts of textures it stitches like a panorama at render time, but I’d have the same trouble actually getting the texture onto the mesh.  So it’s how the texture is being applied that’s causing the banding rather than how it’s stored.  The same sort of thing happens when you paint on perpendicular surfaces in programs like ZBrush.

The effect I’d be going for getting rid of the bands is called Cube Mapping in 3DCoat which is what I use, I’m sure ZBrush has it but I don’t know what it would be called.  Essentially it would be this same effect in three dimensions, projecting on the X/Y/X axis instead of just Z (coming from above/below and left/right of the camera as well as forward/backward which it does).  Adding transparency to the banded areas then laying that all together should look proper, you could multiply alpha through diffuse to get automatic variance so it’s not fading perfectly.

If you’re familiar with the EYEris shader it has a specular flare effect that offsets highlights from their original position, under the hood changing the value on X would make it move left/right regardless of where the light is.  It might be possible to pull the texture three times and put two of them through an offset of 90 degrees on X and Y to get them on the sides before adding them together.  Sounds like a pain in the ass but feasible.

As for material zones there shouldn’t be any issue applying these to some and not others.  Un-wielded parts shouldn’t cause much issue, the same or less issue than UV mapping.  I’m assuming since the texture is universal the displacement would move the separate parts together rather than splitting.  When applying the presets you select which material zones you want them on first, much the same as using UberSurface.

EDIT:

Actually now that I think about, it the 3D fractals I used were originally completely un-wielded on each poly and I had to figure out how to get them together.  That was only because of the faceting effect you get from lighting on un-smoothable surfaces though, nothing to do with the shader I don’t believe.

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Posted: 04 June 2013 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Here is an animation showing some behaviors of the shader.  I switch from AO only to mostly directional lighting a couple seconds in to show how shadows help divide like surfaces.  Hopefully this is a good display of how it works.  Remember that any of the 107 materials can be used in UV mapping mode as well, either with this shader or with UberSurface (so you’re not stuck with the effect).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoIhbaBBJ0Y&hd=1

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Posted: 05 June 2013 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Thanks, I thought that was likely to be the result of reflection - but as noted, it should often be possible to work around it or disguise it. Another option might be to use the sight vector as the projection axis, but then a reflection, although not smeared, would be different from the direct view which might be obvious in some cases and not in others.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I would like to ask about the grass shader on this project. On the first promo shot is that the grass shader on the ground? Would love to see it if not. Thinking I will get this, but the grass is what could really sell me on it.

Thanks :D

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Posted: 05 June 2013 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Well you’re in luck because I just finished uploading a video test using some grass lol, and yes the main image uses one of the grass presets for the ground.

I did this short clip to show a couple more concepts.  Here I’m essentially using meshes as masks for the shader.  There’s a half sphere under the ground plane parented to the one above which I’ve applied the grass shader to.  Since the shader isn’t stuck to UVs moving these objects doesn’t move the texture, so the grass texture is stationary and only it’s shown area changes.

I’m also showing how texture rotation works on the ground plane, that checker texture is actually projected.  Rotating the texture backward makes the shader apply textures at an angle, letting me compensate for perspective by decreasing pattern size in the distance.  I have the same rotation on the grass shader to make sure it’s detail adjusts as it moves closer to the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6S5thFTco&hd=1

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Posted: 05 June 2013 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Very nice! Thank you.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 03:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Is there a Directions for Dummies anywhere for this product? I can’t seem to adjust the tiling. X Tile, Y Tile and Z Scale don’t seem to do anything when I move the slider up or down…I’m certain it’s user error (it almost always is), nevertheless, I need help..!

Thanks.

M.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Can you provide a bit more info on what you’re doing?  The first thing that comes to mind is making sure you’re in Projection mode, UV mode and Projection mode have separate tiling sliders.  It’s also something that’s only shown in render, it won’t do anything to what you see in 3D view (this is a restriction of how shaders and 3D view talk to each other).

I’m currently working with someone on Q&A type documentation to add, hopefully that will help cure some confusion concerns smile

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Posted: 05 June 2013 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Well, I thought I’d start with something simple, so I applied the shader to a plane. I suppose I should have realized I would only see tiling changes in a render. That said, I am quite clueless about how to make sure I am in projection mode vs. UV mode…

Q & A documentation would be much appreciated! grin

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Posted: 05 June 2013 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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There is a slider near the bottom of the list labeled “UV Mapping - Projection Mapping”, when you set that to 0 it’s in UV mode while setting it to 1 will enable Projection mode. smile

UberSurface presets are the only ones that don’t load with this enabled, so unless you’re using those it should be projecting.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Ah, of course. Thanks!

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Posted: 06 June 2013 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Hi, I just bought this set, and every time I apply a shader it’s very flat even on a hilly terrain… with no shadows or anything.
I can’t find any documentation on the product or how to adjust the shader for acceptable results.

Anyone know how to use this product?

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