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Modeling advice?
Posted: 01 June 2013 06:57 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m trying to get back in to modeling. At one time I was fare at it, and could produce models of good enough quality to sell. As it stands I am in desperate need of funds; no I’m living well enough I just have no spendable income.
I got in to modeling practically as soon as I was online. What got me in to this was FMS; flying model sim, and my love of WWI scout planes. The ones available for it were horribly inaccurate, so I started modeling and texturing my own; once I learned how. And I decided this would be the best way to get me back in to modeling. I have had a love for the canvas falcons since I was real young.
Not sure if I want to blame snoopy or Peppard and The Blue Max lol

So far I have just gotten started on the framing. This may turn out to be too high poly, wont know till I’m done lol. Yes I intend to rig it to pose in carrara. But right now I am pondering how to do the wing ridges low poly.

On the old biplanes canvas was stretch over a wooden frame for the wings, so the ribs shown, and the canvas dipped. Even though I can get this with a good displacement map, a disparagement map eats more render time then a moderately high poly model.
Now I had thought about modeling the wing frame and ribs, then using carrara’s bullet physics; soft cloth, to drape the material. But I think that would make it too high poly and I am already concerned about poly count.

Just a screen cap while working. Real early in the start.

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hex_dh2_s.jpg
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Posted: 01 June 2013 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Nice one ManStan I had to go and find some images of a Falcon to see how the canvas looks so ended up here,  USAAC: Pre-war aircrafts
some interesting original historic photos, I see what you mean about the canvas, an organic, semi uniform sort of tatty. Quite tricky to achieve and get to look right, I like the idea of a cloth drape, looks like you will be trying a few methods, I would consider Hex’s paint tools.
Good luck and keep us posted please.
Edit: btw. what is a disparagement map?

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Posted: 01 June 2013 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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An overly active spell checker and a lack of a good proof read lol that’s displacement map.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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This will depend on your target audience. The draped/stretched canvas look can be achieved in many ways without polygon expense. Use box modeling and turn up the smoothing. Turn on the cage to adjust the smoothing effect, use the breaks option to get the membrane look and feel of material stretched like a bats wing.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Here is a low poly wing I created for WWI plane

You then apply 2 levels of smoothing to it.

The centre line of the ribs is pulled out slightly to give the effect of ribbing showing through the fabric

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Lower_Wing.JPG
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Posted: 03 June 2013 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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For something like this I would use a Normal Map. Gives good enough details on a low poly object.

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Posted: 04 June 2013 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Project scrapped.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 02:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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do it just like you’d build the real thing… make your ribs and “stretch” the cloth over them…..

and I mean this *almost* literally…. with separate ribs, smooth the cloth covering and they will take the shape of the ribs…

my sample here is by no means low-poly, but that’s how I did the wings….

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curtiss_engine2_800.jpg
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Posted: 05 June 2013 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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well after beating my head against the carrara wall I had to resave this in another app for carrara to open it right.

hiker_1 I was working on just that. I figured I could build the frame and ribs, take it to carrara and use the bullet physics soft cloth to get the skin drape, then just drop the frame and ribs once I had the shape in the skin. Nope, that would be too easy. It looks like I will just have to model the rib shape in to the wing skin.

{yes the resaved flipped the normals}

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tail.jpg
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Posted: 05 June 2013 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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i made the ribs/frame and then the “fabric” in a single “shaped” piece—it was shaped like the aerofoil, same as the ribs, but like a tube that i could slide the rib/frame into… i did that and then sized the fabric just a wee bit larger than the frame assembly, then i smoothed just the fabric, letting it fit itself over the frame… no dynamic cloth, ballistics, etc…  just smoothing in hexagon…

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Posted: 05 June 2013 06:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I am not sure I understand your process in Hex correctly, any chance of a few screenshots to try and make it clearer please hiker.

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Posted: 11 June 2013 05:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I’m out. It has become blinding clear I am too stupid to be doing this sort of work.

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Posted: 11 June 2013 04:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I get frustrated and move on sometimes, I have some plants half done, not happy, so need a break, but will return soon to the files with a fresh attitude, might pay to have a go sticking bits of cloth or paper on to a little frame just to get some ideas, or there might be some free plane models to download so as to examine the style of modelling.

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Posted: 12 June 2013 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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TapiocaTundra - 11 June 2013 04:19 PM

I get frustrated and move on sometimes, I have some plants half done, not happy, so need a break, but will return soon to the files with a fresh attitude, might pay to have a go sticking bits of cloth or paper on to a little frame just to get some ideas, or there might be some free plane models to download so as to examine the style of modelling.

I have downloaded a few WWI scout planes and the way the are modeled is why I started modeling my own.

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Posted: 12 June 2013 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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It all depends on what where the final model is going to be used.  If, for example, the model was going to be used in Microsoft’s Flight Simulator (MSFS), the generally accepted method(s) would be modeling with as few polygons/faces as possible, and using bump maps to simulate the raised ribs, etc..  The other side of the coin is that for MSFS, you’re almost limited to using 3dSMax or it’s older cousin, gMax and the MS provided exporters, since MSFS has it’s own model format.  (Basically, if it can’t be seen, you don’t model it.)

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Posted: 13 June 2013 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Do NOT get me started on MSFS. I’m a game, that is a rip off.

But, I intend to at least use them in still renders in carrara, probably some animation. I need something that will work for close up still as well as animations. But strictly in carrara.

I plan on rigging it in carrara for full animation; flaps motor stick {if I get that far}. I just get real frustrated real easy.

I’m still tracking down more plans/photos of the DH2 to supplement the book I have. But doing the motor with good detail is going to be a poly burner. I’m playing around trying to see just how much detail I can fake in the texture, bump. I know displacement would be the way to go, maybe. It seems displacement eats about as much time, over all, rendering as high poly.

hiker_1 that is the sort of detail I’m going for, although I intend to do the rigging with the texture; simple plane and alpha.

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