Digital Art Zone

Kyoto Kid - 03 September 2012 03:36 PM

...so will .duf files open in 4.0.3.47,  3.1.2.32, or just 4.5?

...and by “editing” you mean actually going into the textfile and changing things?

No, they will not open in versions earlier than 4.5 (although .daz files saved in 4.0.3.47 won’t open in earlier versions, not even in 4.0.3.36).

And yes, just the way people edit Poser-format files with incorrect paths.

Given the popularity and demand for being able to port existing Gen4 and Gen3 content into Studio 4 and Studio 4.5 for the sake of organizing content, we already need, and soon will *desperately* need a way to organize installed morphs rather than have it all spill randomly into the parameters tab. I’m still using Studio 4 and haven’t even buckled down to learning how to run GenX yet and it is already beyond ridiculous. And given that GenX can port in expression morphs as well the whole collection is just going to get exponentially worse for being able to find what you are looking for.

We *at least* need to be able to separate out things like expressions into a separate heading. We *ought* to be able to separate out the characters or “morph targets” into something separate from the general morph libraries, and have the general morph libraries (like the Die Trying collection and things like that) in another.

So that when you need to build a new figure you can blend the morph targets to get into the basic ball park, then go into the general morphs to fine tune things, and then use the expression library when you are posing the figure and setting up the scene.

If 4.5 has this already that’s going to be an even bigger reason to move to it once a few addons get updated. But if it isn’t then it needs to be added to the program ASAP if not in Studio 5, then by another 3rd-party organization utility.

...so “theoretically” it could be possible to edit the files so that an older version of Studio could read them properly (not that I personally feel comfortable with doing this mind you).

Also, will any of the current content in the store be converted to the new format?

As I am about to get ready to set things up on the new system I am not sure which version of 4 to install.  I have read so many posts from people concerning stability issues with 4.5 that I am reluctant to install it. and go with the 0.3.47 version of StudioPro(64) I have instead.

In any case, I will also be installing the 64 bit version of 3.1.2.32.

As to performing a clean unsinstall I have a couple utilities available that do a slightly more thorough (though not 100% complete)  job than the Daz uninstallers alone

JOdel - 03 September 2012 03:59 PM

Given the popularity and demand for being able to port existing Gen4 and Gen3 content into Studio 4 and Studio 4.5 for the sake of organizing content, we already need, and soon will *desperately* need a way to organize installed morphs rather than have it all spill randomly into the parameters tab. I’m still using Studio 4 and haven’t even buckled down to learning how to run GenX yet and it is already beyond ridiculous. And given that GenX can port in expression morphs as well the whole collection is just going to get exponentially worse for being able to find what you are looking for.

We *at least* need to be able to separate out things like expressions into a separate heading. We *ought* to be able to separate out the characters or “morph targets” into something separate from the general morph libraries, and have the general morph libraries (like the Die Trying collection and things like that) in another.

So that when you need to build a new figure you can blend the morph targets to get into the basic ball park, then go into the general morphs to fine tune things, and then use the expression library when you are posing the figure and setting up the scene.

If 4.5 has this already that’s going to be an even bigger reason to move to it once a few addons get updated. But if it isn’t then it needs to be added to the program ASAP if not in Studio 5, then by another 3rd-party organization utility.

The Property editor will do that - though it does take an age to populate for a morph-laden figure.

SUGGESTED MESH SMOOTHING MODIFIER IMPROVEMENTS & WORKAROUNDS

Currently while the mesh smoothing modifier is great, it does cause some major headaches,
Applying a universal and uncontrolled mesh smooth to anything but the most organic of organic objects; will rarley produce good results when you dont have smoothing groups to control the effect in certain areas.
Preparing meshes for this modifer requires an awful lot of extra consideration, compromise and trial and error, when it comes to modelling.

1) Can we maybe have a ‘vertex relax modifer’, that would have the similar effect the smoothing modifier when it comes to auto-fit and poke though removal - BUT without the actual ‘smoothing’ of topology in the traditional way.
Example; I have clean edges and corners - with vertex relax it will likely remain that way - while the smoothing modifier will round edges and corners off.

2) Can we please, please have the option make the DAZ .Obj importer take advantage of mesh smoothing group information contained in an imported .Obj? most modlers will export this information - but both Daz and Poser refuse to acknowledge it.

3) IS there ANYTHING that can be done to restrict or limit the use/effect of Mesh smoothing on Custom made Morph targets? right now detailed morphs are near impossible with mesh smoothing enabled - the tool simply butchers them with a steam Iron.

Kyoto Kid - 03 September 2012 04:08 PM

...so “theoretically” it could be possible to edit the files so that an older version of Studio could read them properly (not that I personally feel comfortable with doing this mind you).

No, because the DSON spec changed since 4.0 - and wasn’t usable at all in 3. But going forward, it should be possible to use content from a later version in 4.5 or later.

JOdel - 03 September 2012 03:59 PM

Given the popularity and demand for being able to port existing Gen4 and Gen3 content into Studio 4 and Studio 4.5 for the sake of organizing content, we already need, and soon will *desperately* need a way to organize installed morphs rather than have it all spill randomly into the parameters tab. I’m still using Studio 4 and haven’t even buckled down to learning how to run GenX yet and it is already beyond ridiculous. And given that GenX can port in expression morphs as well the whole collection is just going to get exponentially worse for being able to find what you are looking for.

We *at least* need to be able to separate out things like expressions into a separate heading. We *ought* to be able to separate out the characters or “morph targets” into something separate from the general morph libraries, and have the general morph libraries (like the Die Trying collection and things like that) in another.

So that when you need to build a new figure you can blend the morph targets to get into the basic ball park, then go into the general morphs to fine tune things, and then use the expression library when you are posing the figure and setting up the scene.

If 4.5 has this already that’s going to be an even bigger reason to move to it once a few addons get updated. But if it isn’t then it needs to be added to the program ASAP if not in Studio 5, then by another 3rd-party organization utility.

This is actually already possible BUT it is a very painstaking process. If you follow my tutorial in the Daz Studio Discussions forum, it may help you. You need to pay attention not to the BEGINNING of the tutorial but towards the tail end.

It is here.

TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Partial Body Morph in DAZ Studio Pro 4 Using the DForm Tool by RKane_1

That being said HOWEVER, once you do this once or twice, you will STILL< I am sure, lobby for making the process MUCH more user friendly and making it so many of the processes can be done for you automatically.

Richard Haseltine - 03 September 2012 04:13 PM

Kyoto Kid - 03 September 2012 04:08 PM

...so “theoretically” it could be possible to edit the files so that an older version of Studio could read them properly (not that I personally feel comfortable with doing this mind you).

No, because the DSON spec changed since 4.0 - and wasn’t usable at all in 3. But going forward, it should be possible to use content from a later version in 4.5 or later.

...so basically every release of 4.0 before 4.5 is pretty much going to be a dead end then?

Kyoto Kid - 03 September 2012 04:16 PM

...so basically every release of 4.0 before 4.5 is going to be a dead end then?

Yep, so pray they introduce more stability to the program so you can update and not have to use the old system anymore.

...based on the track record since the release of 3.0, that’s not very reassuring.

What do you mean by dead end? The files will still be forwards compatible, it’s only backward compatibility that’s at issue -and that has always been a problem.

What Features Should Be in DAZ Studio 5?

Excerpted from another thread I started:

1. Something I still don’t see mentioned anywhere are simple, common sense useability improvements like an “Open Recent”  under File which would let people quickly load/access a recently opened file so we wouldn’t have to go scrolling down through folders to find a DAZ scene file we were just working on a few hours ago or yesterday. And I’ve got a whole lot of those! The most recent 10 files listed would help me a lot.

2. Or a “History” tab where we can jump back to a change made a few seconds ago to several minutes ago. Right now, if you make more than just a change or 2 at the most, even if it’s simply rotating a character or camera or 1 morph change, you lose the ability to jump back to a previous state or change. The only thing available right now is Undo, which only lets you undo the last change or two changes back at the most. That is very inadequate! No real ability to go back more than a couple adjustments at the most, and not even a simple “Revert” option under File. Not even!

3. So yeah, a Revert feature would be another good, common sense feature. Because otherwise, if I don’t like the last few or several changes or adjustments of the camera, lights, prop or character movements for instance, I either have to get it perfectly spot on right, or I have to close the file without saving it & reopen it! GRRRRRRR!!!!! Or I have to be Saving every change I make whether I like them or not. Or I have to constantly hit the Undo button.

Photoshop has had these features for about a decade now. They understand that even though cool new cutting edge features are all cool & sexy, doing so at the expense of common sense, everyday usability is NOT good! There’s no reason you can’t have a program with all the latest bells & whistles that’s also user friendly. Seriously, how hard would it be to add these features for DAZ?! It would make things so much easier to do. Just simple, common sense things like those. Maybe not real sexy for the CG geeks, but still, for everyday usability, these things would be wonderful! 

4. And backward compatibility with current generation DS4.0+ DAZ scene files where I have all my characters, props, scenes, lights saved to render. I shouldn’t have to even mention this. But I’m afraid someone or some development team is going to make a decision that the current DAZ Scene format “should be phased out just for the sake of adding some cool, new bright shiny format” with new bells & whistles and we won’t be able to open all our pre-2013 files and tweak & render them anymore. So add a new format(s) if you need to, BUT keep it (5.0)compatible with current 2010-2012 DAZ Scene files.

Very reasonable isn’t it? 

MarkR151 - 03 September 2012 04:41 PM

2. Or a “History” tab where we can jump back to a change made a few seconds ago to several minutes ago. Right now, if you make more than just a change or 2 at the most, even if it’s simply rotating a character or camera or 1 morph change, you lose the ability to jump back to a previous state or change. The only thing available right now is Undo, which only lets you undo the last change or two changes back at the most. That is very inadequate! No real ability to go back more than a couple adjustments at the most, and not even a simple “Revert” option under File. Not even!

My undo goes to 20.

MarkR151 - 03 September 2012 04:41 PM

4. And backward compatibility with current generation DS4.0+ DAZ scene files where I have all my characters, props, scenes, lights saved to render. I shouldn’t have to even mention this. But I’m afraid someone or some development team is going to make a decision that the current DAZ Scene format “should be phased out just for the sake of adding some cool, new bright shiny format” with new bells & whistles and we won’t be able to open all our pre-2013 files and tweak & render them anymore. So add a new format(s) if you need to, BUT keep it (5.0)compatible with current 2010-2012 DAZ Scene files.

I just opened a file from DAZ Studio 3 and everything came in perfectly. DAZ Studio will open older file formats, it just won’t save in the old formats.

Coldrake

Richard Haseltine - 03 September 2012 04:34 PM

What do you mean by dead end? The files will still be forwards compatible, it’s only backward compatibility that’s at issue -and that has always been a problem.

...well currently I have Pro 4.0.3.37 (64).

With all the troubles I have read of concerning 4.5’s instability and the fact it is near impossible to perform a full clean uninstall of all the application’s files from one’s HDD, as I mentioned, I am reluctant to install it.  Since .duf files will only be readable from ver. 4.5 upwards, that to to me says 4.0.x is a dead end with regards to new content releases if (as it appears is going to occur) that all support for the older .daz format is abandoned in favour of .duf.

So I am faced with three options for the new system, spend all the time setting up Pro4.0 knowing that it it is already “dated” and will not open the newer file format.  Install 4.5 and deal with the instabilities even people (who have systems with twice the RAM of my workstation build) have been experiencing.  Or, don’t install any version of Studio4 and as RKane_1 above said, hope a more stable version is released.

So far it is looking like the last may be the best.

As I have mentioned I invested a lot of hard earned money (on a limited income) in this pursuit not only in the form of software and content but in purchasing the components to build a system that will continue to support in the media as it changes and hopefully eliminate a lot of the frustration I’ve experienced working under such limited constraints. To feel that a lot of it could soon be for naught is not very comforting.

This is why my first point several posts above is that whatever format Studio5 takes, it needs to be complete and stable before it is released for sale.  Offering a free beta download is fine, other software providers do this. However, when the final product is to be rolled out of the hangar everything needs to be “flight ready”.

True.

However, unless and until DAZ summarily removes all of the legacy content (i.e., pre-Genesis) from the store, I think we can be *reasonably* confident that Studio will still be able to read whatever formats it originally came in. We might not be able to decipher the thumbnails, but the items will load when the patches of noise are clicked on.

For my own part, I’ve found DS4 to be more stable than DS3, although I do still get the occasional program quit. But I’m still holding off from installing DS4.5 so long as plugins aren’t updated, and/or I am unable to run DS4 on the sdame computer so I can switch back and forth if I need to.