What features would you like to see appear in dazstudio 5?

Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
edited December 1969 in The Commons

ok, i re-created this thread from the old archive.
http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=189573
we can start back over with the discussion on this new place...
keep it clean and easy without starting soft/wars.
it's all about ds future opportunities.

What features would you like to see appear in dazstudio 5?
from a point of view as dazstudio is a "CHARACTER CREATOR" and not a modeler. the days we only did quiet life/silent renders comes to an end...
what do you think we need?
(example: how to make your characters to life, realtime rendering,..?)

let's all come to a careful list of useful features. a list with important missed things we certainly need in dazstudio.

these features might be some important decision for many to use dazstudio more as a main program for character editing.
now we have too many transfers between software.
(example: if you would really do good animation, you have to re-rig all in other software)

ps: please do not start a daz vs poser war in these thread!
for questions about genesis not working in poser please directed to SM/Runtimedna forum.


If you have created a studio future request on https://bugs.daz3d.com
please post the link and a short explaning why you made the request in this thread too,

as requested by users,
i post selection of below posted features in a workable list.
here we go,

1) Manual & documentation: pdf & extra explained with video tutorials.
- Quickstart Guide for the real beginners
- more in-depth for more advanced users

(a future request about this can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44135)

2) Pose/system:
- realtime symmetry pose setup (see iclone 5 for great example)
- Genesis dynamic pose vs collision system build poses for genesis base mesh & have poses for most genesis morphs
(a future request about this can be found here:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44221)

Morphing
- Hex vs Zbrush (post by Ramwolff on page2, morph brushes..to correct morph issues when figure bending inside studio...)
- Bake Shape, once I finished making the character's shape, it would save the morph shape out as I made it and strip all the other morphs out of the shape for easier and faster loading (post by Rkane_1 on page5)
- Autofit working for boots & shoes
(future request here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44555)

3)Animation:
- rigged skeleton setup with fullbody & single bodypart IK/FK/CK setup (quick animate footroll & the use of constraints)
- rigged face control, visual expressions/shape genesis face expression's and have also better control of the tongue.
what about ability to create weight maps for Translate the bones, not only for the rotation? see request from smay on page 9)
(a future requests about these can be found here:
visual shape expressions: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44475
better tongue control: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=45932)
rig IK/FK/CK setup: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=42051)

- a well done sequencer (where it's easy to add, remove, copy, replace, slide keyframes on time-line)
-->> no more 2 timelines in studio (it's so confusing and difficult for new users) (future request can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=46464 )
- visual curve of keyframes to easy change speed of action movements in time.
- visual ghost effect (tweening/motion) between keyframes, make previous action visible as ghost.
- constraints, interaction between 2 figures possible
(a future request about this can be found here:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=43282)
- motion path's & turntable options for camera animating
(a future request about this can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44099)

4) Dynamics & physics:
- dynamic clothes creation for everyone (sounds today marvelous designer have the best real option to move on)
- dynamic hair (we have seen some poor examples of upcoming hairplugin, but it sounds it's still not dynamic?)
(a future request about this can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44701)
- collision detection (not only clothes, but also between figures vs figures and figures vs props)
(future requests about this can be found here:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=43919
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44009)
- physics (interact with dynamics, gravity, wind,...)
- hard & softbody dynamics (for more realistic body simulations)
(a future request about this can be found here:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44174)
- ragdoll (easy auto pose hands around an arm, leg or prop)
- particle emitter (no prop, but real emitter)

5) Rendering:
- Shader Mixer needs OpenGL Preview functions
(future request can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44235)
- Global Illumination
- Realtime OpenGL rendering (octance or ?)
(a future request about GPU rendering with octane can be found here:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=44642)
- Area rendering, only render selection of the screen.
- Improved render times/performance
- Better cartoon shaders as Dazstudio default
- viewport mode (like Unreal Engine Editor no more long rendering),
- fast realtime preview example (read post zilvergrafix on page5)
- Batch rendering
ability to give the software mulitple scenes, animations to render which are stored in an internal or external task list and are done one after the other while I am out doing more useful stuff than sitting next to a pc waiting to start the next render.
and pause & resume renders (may be option to save in batch & load for resume)

question about zilvergrafix on page 5
What about some videogame "feel" OpenGl visuals without using the render button?

Lightning:
- Decent advanced lighting options - falloff, shadow color, etc - easily accessed in the normal way (Parameters pane)

6) Genesis figure:
- Shape Manager, load & save gensis morph's you like (opton to load/save not all of the morph's at once, too time consuming with list getting bigger & bigger of shapes).
more info here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=189515&highlight;=

7) GUI:
- content system: easy add, rename & delete categorie folders.
- 1 click option, create thumbnail for save pose, morph,...
- built in paint control for texturing.
- multiple layer system (like in Cinema4d) assign clothes, props to a figure (read more post by donchan1 on page 3)
useful option, without have to create new null objects.
- metadata script builder tab: click & drag (render thumbnail & save metatag info) post by Lindsey read more on page4
- Drag-and-drop textures from an Explorer window into the surface editor (Rhale_2 read on page 4)
- ability to pin rotation and translation from the Scene tab (RKane_1 read on page 4)
- single tool tab which includes morphs, shaping, expressions and posing
(future request can be found here: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=45427)

8) SDK: (done, SDK beta is now launched for public testing!)
- we know it's available to some few developers. my only message on this could be, take your time to develop it well!
we can only hope it contains the needed information at public launch
.

9 ) Export:
- genesis straight T-pose export (problems assign rig in MB)
- Studio Genesis vs Carrara? what would be the future, the Genesis story? is there still enough developing time for both?
- possible feature vision -->> Genesis plugins for export & use genesis features in (C4D, autodesk software, lightwave) something like interposerpro (for poser) only needed if can't do above list in daz programs, else i don't think we need such features fast.
- Dazstudio vs Unity, make studio unity friendly with or without unity plugin

this list is only a selection of features i read that where posted below.
it's not a finished list and not official. it's only a wish list to have more fun and a better character program for all of us.

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Comments

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,444
    edited June 2012

    Better content management. DS has a unique position of being the best content manager for 3d on the market if they could clean it up. Expanded interaction with different file formats, import/export would be nice but not top on the list as DAE would be my focus. Better integration with alternate render engines. Separate areas for Poser, DAZ native, DAE content in the tree rather than the mixed bag it is atm. File structures should remain clean and true to it's base format imo, with catagories and smart content allowing cross format search and organization. Also would prefer a file format base that kept all parts of an item together, textures, meshes, lights, poses* etc... with a 'template' area for things like light/camera/pose* setups.


    * I include poses because they break often when changing characters, not badly but enough that base poses are best for 'templates' with specific poses saved with a character.


    Along this line, would like the interface to encourage saving of full characters with clothing sets, poses. Also, it would be nice if the interface encouraged saving 'sites' complete with lighting, cameras.


    When I mention 'encourage' it refers to the fact that design can strongly direct how people interact with an environment. While many people do save characters/sites the way I mention, and the current design doesn't preclude this (in fact it is very flexible this way) it doesn't do anything to encourage this practice atm.


    I believe 4.5 addressed the issue of better optimizing character load so a saved char didn't load all morphs possible? It would be nice to 'bake' a char once it's the way someone wants it.


    Site management, it would be nice to be able to set up complex sites with some type of proxies, turning on/off full detail parts, the proxies ignored during render (not passed to the renderer.) Along this line, it would be nice to be able to define a low poly/detail proxy for a model for this swap feature so that modelers could at their option provide low/highs in a way DAZ would recognize them as such.

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,579
    edited June 2012

    Use Microsoft Kinect support for motion capture and do decent animation. Its cheap and very powerful.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt_944t9Lc&feature=related

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • WitchStormWitchStorm Posts: 141
    edited December 1969

    I am not looking forward to Daz 5. I bought Daz 4 Pro, and would like it to be fixed before they even think about Daz 5.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,352
    edited December 1969

    Remember that this is in no way an official thread, so don't take it as indicating anything about development timelines. The release of DS4.5RC is more useful for that.

  • Art GianoArt Giano Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'd like to see DAZ Studio improved as a Character creation tool, so for me that would mean perhaps
    -more varienty for Genesis including better choices for face shaping.
    -stronger links with external apps (dare I say even, finding a way to export JCMs, morphs and even tri ax weighting using custom exporters for progs like Modo Softimage Max and Maya?)
    -Better OpenGL preview to include things like soft shadows, realtime displacement and bump, Ambient occluision, SSS etc?
    -Better choice of skin maps and wrinkle displacement/bump maps
    -Better face morphs for animation for things like open mouth shapes, better cheeck and eye morphs - stuff like that.
    -Better eye modeling and shaping, especialy along the eyelid rims.
    -Better shaping morphs which are part-specific. i.e. Eye shapes, mouth shapes etc.

    With the MDD exporter, it suggests one could import animation data onto figures and export nicley animated point oven files to external apps which is great, but how about better tools for recordig body and facial mocap or improving importing that stuff in. And how about better cloth simulation? And how about exportable hair gemetry too (with dynamics).

    Just my suggestions - look forward to seeing what DAZ have in store. Genesis was suge a huge idea for character creation...I'd love to see it continue to develop.

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 947
    edited June 2012

    as I wrote in the old thread: faster save and load times for entire scenes. It's one of the most annoying things in DS for me :D

    Post edited by Barubary on
  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    1. Documentation.

    2. All of the bugs from DS4 fixed

    3. Documentation

    4. A finsished product - ALL SUBSYSTEMS COMPLETE - having things like the shader system & autofix still in beta is ridiculous.

    5. Did I mention documentation?

    I won't waste my time downloading a program that isn't complete and doesn't come with documentation.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:
    1. Documentation.

    2. All of the bugs from DS4 fixed

    3. Documentation

    4. A finsished product - ALL SUBSYSTEMS COMPLETE - having things like the shader system & autofix still in beta is ridiculous.

    5. Did I mention documentation?

    I won't waste my time downloading a program that isn't complete and doesn't come with documentation.


    Are you running Windows?


    Kendall

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,579
    edited December 1969

    Vray plugin for daz:)

  • edited December 1969

    Regarding Area Rendering, here is a link to the 'official' feature request (please add supporting note if you'd like it too): https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=36684
    Regarding dynamic hair, Alessandro's LAMH plug-in will bring that to DS 4.5. It won't support physics in its first version, but that's on the list for the subsequent version.

    Wishlist for DS5 features:
    Lighting: the option for lights to affect only selected surfaces (useful for example to add a point light in front of the face of a character and have it only add a glint on the eyes instead of lighting the whole face).
    Shaders: - user-friendly caustics (like, a workflow that doesn't necessitate to create a special camera plus special lights plus special materials in the shader mixer)
    - faster-rendering indirect lighting
    More rendering optimizations (DS's renderer is s-l-o-w)
    Multi-pass rendering (or update and integration of the ReLight plug-in into the main DS Advanced app)
    Support for instancing (Alessandro said that it's on his to-do list, but he's alone so could surely use helping heads *hint, Daz, hint*)

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    Fille123 said:
    Regarding Area Rendering, here is a link to the 'official' feature request (please add supporting note if you'd like it too): https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=36684
    Regarding dynamic hair, Alessandro's LAMH plug-in will bring that to DS 4.5. It won't support physics in its first version, but that's on the list for the subsequent version.

    Wishlist for DS5 features:
    Lighting: the option for lights to affect only selected surfaces (useful for example to add a point light in front of the face of a character and have it only add a glint on the eyes instead of lighting the whole face).
    Shaders: - user-friendly caustics (like, a workflow that doesn't necessitate to create a special camera plus special lights plus special materials in the shader mixer)
    - faster-rendering indirect lighting
    More rendering optimizations (DS's renderer is s-l-o-w)
    Multi-pass rendering (or update and integration of the ReLight plug-in into the main DS Advanced app)
    Support for instancing (Alessandro said that it's on his to-do list, but he's alone so could surely use helping heads *hint, Daz, hint*)


    DS4.5 already has instancing.


    Kendall

  • edited December 1969


    DS4.5 already has instancing.


    Kendall

    Really!?! Woah... :bug: Is there a demonstration of how to use it anywhere?

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    Fille123 said:

    DS4.5 already has instancing.


    Kendall

    Really!?! Woah... :bug: Is there a demonstration of how to use it anywhere?


    Here ya go.


    Kendall

    Screenshot-21.png
    800 x 609 - 144K
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,736
    edited December 1969

    I am not looking forward to Daz 5. I bought Daz 4 Pro, and would like it to be fixed before they even think about Daz 5.

    ...I second this as I still am using a broken ver 3.1.2.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
    edited December 1969

    Fille123 said:
    Regarding Area Rendering, here is a link to the 'official' feature request (please add supporting note if you'd like it too): https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=36684
    Regarding dynamic hair, Alessandro's LAMH plug-in will bring that to DS 4.5. It won't support physics in its first version, but that's on the list for the subsequent version.

    Wishlist for DS5 features:
    Lighting: the option for lights to affect only selected surfaces (useful for example to add a point light in front of the face of a character and have it only add a glint on the eyes instead of lighting the whole face).
    Shaders: - user-friendly caustics (like, a workflow that doesn't necessitate to create a special camera plus special lights plus special materials in the shader mixer)
    - faster-rendering indirect lighting
    More rendering optimizations (DS's renderer is s-l-o-w)
    Multi-pass rendering (or update and integration of the ReLight plug-in into the main DS Advanced app)
    Support for instancing (Alessandro said that it's on his to-do list, but he's alone so could surely use helping heads *hint, Daz, hint*)


    DS4.5 already has instancing.


    Kendall

    did you test it? the above list is created a while ago... so yes it's possible it's done in 4.5
    daz is working on different features from the list and more.
    some features have already been made, some are still possible future opportunities.

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 1,882
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Fille123 said:
    Regarding Area Rendering, here is a link to the 'official' feature request (please add supporting note if you'd like it too): https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=36684
    Regarding dynamic hair, Alessandro's LAMH plug-in will bring that to DS 4.5. It won't support physics in its first version, but that's on the list for the subsequent version.

    Wishlist for DS5 features:
    Lighting: the option for lights to affect only selected surfaces (useful for example to add a point light in front of the face of a character and have it only add a glint on the eyes instead of lighting the whole face).
    Shaders: - user-friendly caustics (like, a workflow that doesn't necessitate to create a special camera plus special lights plus special materials in the shader mixer)
    - faster-rendering indirect lighting
    More rendering optimizations (DS's renderer is s-l-o-w)
    Multi-pass rendering (or update and integration of the ReLight plug-in into the main DS Advanced app)
    Support for instancing (Alessandro said that it's on his to-do list, but he's alone so could surely use helping heads *hint, Daz, hint*)


    DS4.5 already has instancing.


    Kendall

    did you test it? the above list is created a while ago... so yes it's possible it's done in 4.5
    daz is working on different features from the list and more.
    some features have already been made, some are still possible future opportunities.


    Yup. Tested many times. I can easily create over 100 Genesis instances in DS4.5 32bit. Things start to bog down a little on the screen updates at that point :-)


    Kendall

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:
    1. Documentation.

    2. All of the bugs from DS4 fixed

    3. Documentation

    4. A finsished product - ALL SUBSYSTEMS COMPLETE - having things like the shader system & autofix still in beta is ridiculous.

    5. Did I mention documentation?

    I won't waste my time downloading a program that isn't complete and doesn't come with documentation.


    Are you running Windows?


    Kendall

    No - OSX 10.6.8 on a MacPro 1,1

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
    edited December 1969

    any new input, or new ideas?

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 4,928
    edited December 1969

    The ability to edit poly and edit mesh like Hexagon or 3Ds Max, it would make morphing in daz sooooo much superior! Also an added feature to select only rotations in saving a preset pose. It takes ages to save a generic genesis pose for all genesis characters cos you gotta select all then deselect all scaleing (If you dont and save it, then use that saved pose on another Gn character they turn into some monster of a morph!)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,736
    edited September 2012

    ...first and foremost.: a fully finished, fully functioning, reasonably stable application out of the box with the basic Daz based plugins intact and with an updated SDK supplied to third party plugin developers before release. No more paying to be beta testers please.

    ...the ability to create cloth dynamics, be it "built in" or through a bridge plugin to Marvelous Designer.

    ...an option for a more streamlined UI for those who have used older versions of Studio and/or do not have multiple display setups. It shouldn't take much to provide a "retro UI" skin that displays runtime & content in the standard vertical folder tree format.

    ...installing all application components, files, and modules to one single parent folder (preferably in the C:/Programme Files tree where other applications reside) instead of spreading it among several different locations. There should be no reason for having content or application modules folders in places like "My Documents" (which is supposed to be for productivity software such as text editors, word processing and spreadsheet programmes) or any other location on the HDD than the parent directory. This only makes the application more cumbersome and content/files more difficult to map.

    ...tick boxes in the setup that allow one to bypass installation of the CMS, any other background/automatic process manager, or website links.

    ...better yet, how about an option (e.g. an Install Wizard) in the application set up routine that lets advanced users to fully "configure" the application to one's needs and workflow prior to final installation (a basic version of this already exists in the .exe installers)? This would allow one to determine which features to include and which to not include as well as setting up the directory/runtime mapping and make any changes before the actual installation process is launched.

    ...a simpler method for mapping existing runtimes/directories particularly for those who have custom runtime setups (which would be included in the above)

    ...ongoing compatibility with the .daz file format instead of just the new .duf one.

    ...a background render queue/batch process. This would work similar to the render to .RIB option, allowing one to set up the render process to be executed outside the application at a later time as can be done with the standalone version of 3Delight.

    ...the capability to brew the perfect cup of coffee (one of the Advanced User options). ;-)

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    I would have to say i concur with Kyoto Kid on all of these.

    I would also add:

    -A Metadata editor: I want to be able to, while in the DAZ Studio environment, assign metadata to a file and organize the files as I see fit (not necessarily sticking with the alphabetical regime but organize according to how I think and flow when working.)

    - An easier system for posing, one where I can tick mark Pin Rotation and what-not on the side in a pane structured like a tree and not have to exactly touch the right body part then click on the pin.... oh crap, I touched the leg instead... now I have to back to the... crap, touched the leg again...

    -Morph Stack: Basically make it so when you make a morph on TOP of other morphs used, you can edit a "stack" with tick marks by it of morphs used and remove them one by one or all at once MINUS the morph you just made to isolate EXACTLY the morph you just made without all the other morphs. I would be like Zero Shape.... except for these morphs which i want to stick around.

    - I would like to reiterate the morph brush option much like the weight mapping system where you paint what you want to change first, can apply a blur to indicate falloff, then paint on OR use a dform magnet. Then save as an independent morph.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,623
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...installing all application components, files, and modules to one single parent folder (preferably in the C:/Programme Files tree where other applications reside) instead of spreading it among several different locations. There should be no reason for having content or application modules folders in places like "My Documents" (which is supposed to be for productivity software such as text editors, word processing and spreadsheet programmes) or any other location on the HDD than the parent directory. This only makes the application more cumbersome and content/files more difficult to map.

    It's standard nowadays to separate applications (which go in Program Files under Windows), application configuration information (AppData), and user data (My Documents). You don't have to put your content in My Documents, but that IS the standard. Putting everything in one folder hasn't been considered "best practice" for over a decade, and putting user data in the Program Files hierarchy is very unwise in Windows after XP.

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...a simpler method for mapping existing runtimes/directories particularly for those who have custom runtime setups (which would be included in the above)

    Already exists: Content Library > options menu > Import Mapped Content Folders


    ...ongoing compatibility with the .daz file format instead of just the new .duf one.

    To what purpose? DS still reads .daz files, but they have never been backwards compatible, and have many disadvantages relative to .duf files.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,623
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:

    -A Metadata editor: I want to be able to, while in the DAZ Studio environment, assign metadata to a file and organize the files as I see fit (not necessarily sticking with the alphabetical regime but organize according to how I think and flow when working.)

    It's already there, although I personally think it could be made easier to use.


    - An easier system for posing, one where I can tick mark Pin Rotation and what-not on the side in a pane structured like a tree and not have to exactly touch the right body part then click on the pin.... oh crap, I touched the leg instead... now I have to back to the... crap, touched the leg again...

    Couldn't you do this with the Scene tab?

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...ongoing compatibility with the .daz file format instead of just the new .duf one.

    To what purpose? DS still reads .daz files, but they have never been backwards compatible, and have many disadvantages relative to .duf files.

    Thanks for weighing in, fixmypcmike. I have always valued your expertise.

    What are some of the advantages to the .duf format and could you perhaps give some insight on why you feel it was chosen?

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:

    -A Metadata editor: I want to be able to, while in the DAZ Studio environment, assign metadata to a file and organize the files as I see fit (not necessarily sticking with the alphabetical regime but organize according to how I think and flow when working.)

    It's already there, although I personally think it could be made easier to use.

    I had no idea. That's pretty much what I meant. There are so many things available in DAZ but add lack of documentation on top of not as user friendly as they could have made it and you get double-whammied.


    - An easier system for posing, one where I can tick mark Pin Rotation and what-not on the side in a pane structured like a tree and not have to exactly touch the right body part then click on the pin.... oh crap, I touched the leg instead... now I have to back to the... crap, touched the leg again...

    Couldn't you do this with the Scene tab?

    It would be GREAT if, in the scene tab, once you opened it, you had the two pins available to tick off there as well as all the dials for position (xyz rotation) all in one collapsed list RIGHT THERE.... but i digress. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,736
    edited September 2012

    ...the thing is Daz installers put stuff all over the place. As some have mentioned, to remove all traces of the Studio application from one's system (as when getting ready to do a clean re-install due to file corruption) almost requires wiping the HD and reinstalling the OS and everything else from backups or restore disks because files for the Studio application are buried everywhere and simply uninstalling the application doesn't always remove them.

    As you were aware of, yesterday evening I was struggling with the whole directory mapping issue and which directory path had to go where so that things were "seen" correctly by the application. I never had this difficulty with past updates, including going from 2.x to 3A. Were it not for your assistance, I would have probably just given up out of total frustration like some have and uninstalled 4 altogether.

    As to the .duf format, what happens with older content should the next version of Studio only support that format?

    There have been so many changes occurring since the release of Studio4 that I am concerned the investment I currently have in all this could become useless.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,623
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:
    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...ongoing compatibility with the .daz file format instead of just the new .duf one.

    To what purpose? DS still reads .daz files, but they have never been backwards compatible, and have many disadvantages relative to .duf files.

    Thanks for weighing in, fixmypcmike. I have always valued your expertise.

    What are some of the advantages to the .duf format and could you perhaps give some insight on why you feel it was chosen?

    .daz files could never be opened in earlier versions of DS. Going forward, .duf files in DS4.6 will be able to be opened in DS4.5
    .daz files are binary which can't be read by anything other than DS and can't be edited if they fail to open. .duf are plain text in a standard format (JSON) so they can be read, edited manually if necessary, and importers can be written for other applications.
    .daz files fail if the data-folder files aren't found. .duf will go back to the Poser files to recreate the data files if necessary.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 15,736
    edited September 2012

    ...so will .duf files open in 4.0.3.47, 3.1.2.32, or just 4.5?

    ...and by "editing" you mean actually going into the textfile and changing things?

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 11,623
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...the thing is Daz installers put stuff all over the place. As some have mentioned, to remove all traces of the Studio application from one's system (as when getting ready to do a clean re-install due to file corruption) almost requires wiping the HD and reinstalling the OS and everything else from backups or restore disks because files for the Studio application are buried everywhere and simply uninstalling the application doesn't always remove them.

    I do agree, although this isn't a DS issue as a more general problem with pretty much all software these days. It would be useful to have an option in the installers for whether you want to remove all user preferences (serial number, mapped runtimes, etc.) for when you want a clean install.

    Kyoto Kid said:
    As you were aware of, yesterday evening I was struggling with the whole directory mapping issue and which directory path had to go where so that things were "seen" correctly by the application. I never had this difficulty with past updates, including going from 2.x to 3A. Were it not for your assistance, I would have probably just given up out of total frustration like some have and uninstalled 4 altogether.

    I know we've discussed this before (and as I recall you DID have similar difficulties with the transition to DS3), but I still don't understand why you've had these difficulties. Installers that use different default install paths can cause troubles, and some people use literally hundreds of content folders and get into trouble because of that, or because they relied on using "Other Formats" to get around the directory structure, but your problem could have easily been solved by using the "Import Mapped Content Folders" feature.

    As to the .duf format, what happens with older content should the next version of Studio only support that format? There have been so many changes occurring since the release of Studio4 that I am concerned the investment I currently have in all this could become useless.

    That is a valid point, I agree, although as DS4.5 still supports the .ds format from DS 0-2 as well as older Poser formats, I think that DAZ 3D development understands the need to retain that compatibility. And as we saw with .daz files from the DS 0-1period no longer working properly in DS3+, sticking with the .daz format doesn't ensure that past .daz files will work anyway -- quite the opposite, they are prone to becoming unusable even if they are ostensibly the same format.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:
    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...ongoing compatibility with the .daz file format instead of just the new .duf one.

    To what purpose? DS still reads .daz files, but they have never been backwards compatible, and have many disadvantages relative to .duf files.

    Thanks for weighing in, fixmypcmike. I have always valued your expertise.

    What are some of the advantages to the .duf format and could you perhaps give some insight on why you feel it was chosen?

    .daz files could never be opened in earlier versions of DS. Going forward, .duf files in DS4.6 will be able to be opened in DS4.5
    .daz files are binary which can't be read by anything other than DS and can't be edited if they fail to open. .duf are plain text in a standard format (JSON) so they can be read, edited manually if necessary, and importers can be written for other applications.
    .daz files fail if the data-folder files aren't found. .duf will go back to the Poser files to recreate the data files if necessary.

    Good to know! Thanks!

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