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A new bryce or an old question?
Posted: 27 May 2013 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]
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So forgive me if this has already been asked before,  Im not exactly new around here but new to this section of the forums. I do have a curious question about the features in Bryce 7.0.
While the program seems a bit unstable from time to time, the reason I prefer using Bryce over other landscaping programs like vue and terragen, is that I am far more comfortable with Bryce. And while I agree that switching over to a different application will be easier to use for certain projects, I feel like Bryce has a lot more to offer then many are aware of + it has an amazing lighting system that only downfalls in its render time.

So my question to everyone is, will there be a new Bryce with upgraded features ( mainly the render engine, and stability when handling large scenes ), or is this an old question that has been picking away at the picnic basket ( whatever that means ).

And if Bryce is in its final stage of life, what other programs would you consider to be a Bryce superior?

( I ask this in all good intentions, I don’t mean to offend the Bryce-aholics here as I am one myself )

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Posted: 27 May 2013 11:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The question has been asked before, but the answers are probably buried several pages down.  Those in the know have said there are no current plans to upgrade Bryce, it isn’t in the development que.  You have asked for what many want, but until it’s decided to further develop Bryce we have what we have.

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Posted: 27 May 2013 11:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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That is a shame, I didn’t have my hopes up but always safe to make sure right XD?  I don’t want to leave Bryce, but are there many systems that are as easy to use in comparision to Bryce? Just like to have a list of information on hand of what other people think of other programs

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Posted: 28 May 2013 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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@Apoc:  I think you’ll get lots of opinions about Bryce and how it compares to other programs.  But if you look through the four show us your renders threads, you may have to hunt for 1-3, you’ll see Bryce can do more than many realize.  Just looking through the show us your renders 4 should give you an idea what can be done.  As for leaving Bryce, I think you might find many here use more than one program to meet their needs.  So it’s really a matter of which program you decide meets your needs best.

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Posted: 28 May 2013 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Im already well aware that Bryce can handle more then meets the eye, as its not the program but the person who uses it. I can do some amazing things with paint.net that photshop users can’t cause I am well diverse In it :D. My only question is , are there any programs that people think are as easy to learn as Bryce with continued updated support? or is Bryce one of a kind in its unique aspects?

Basically I was hoping for a comparsion with Bryce to other programs is all im really asking smile

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Posted: 28 May 2013 01:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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At the moment, neither Bryce, Carrara or Hexagon have a firm schedule when they will be updated.

The instability issue is mainly due to memory. Bryce does everything in memory. As a 32-bit application, the limit is 2 GB. You can make Bryce large address aware and can use up to 3.5 GB provided your computer has at least 4 GB.

The slow render engine is somewhat a myth. Quality needs time and you can see this with other 3D applications as well. There are many strategies to speed up a render. Bryce is a very versatile program and it doesn’t stop at landscapes.

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Posted: 28 May 2013 01:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Hi Apoc23, even though Guss is correct that Daz haven’t told us of their plans to develop Bryce further, they also haven’t told us they don’t plan to develop it either. In fact much of what they have said leads us to keep up the hope that eventually Bryce will enter into another development cycle eventually, it’s just a shame that they can’t/wont tell us when that may happen. It’s not unusual for Bryce to struggle on for long periods with no sign of updating and remember Daz has spent a lot of time and money giving us a programme that is more than ten times better and more functional and introduced more features and improvement than any upgrades anyone else has ever given. This leads us to think that Daz wont intentionally let Bryce die.

As for alternatives, you’ll most likely find as many different opinions as there are different people. At the moment David Brinnen is doing direct comparisons between Bryce and Octane and has a thread showing some of his results.
Personally, my short dabble in Vue would lead me to think that it would be a good alternative for me, the main drawback being that to get anywhere near the same results that Bryce is capable of, you have to purchase a lot of the ‘modules’ making Vue an expensive alternative.

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Posted: 28 May 2013 01:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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@ TheSavage:

Yes I seen david’s experiment with octane. I believe I like the Bryce renders a bit better but the results are great non the less! I was wondering if anyone else has already done these sort of tests with other applications to see how well they match up.
And I do also like vue quite a lot. I do feel as though its a bit impractical for some simple things that I can usally leave up to Bryce with no problems.

@Horo:
I remembered a post where you mentioned that part of what eats memory in Bryce was the undo function. Other then closing down and re-opening Bryce, and using smaller resolution textures, I don’t have to much information on how to prevent crashes on Bryce. I would also love to learn tricks on how to improve my renders without having to upgrade to a new system smile. At the moment, I usally start my renders at night and they take about 8hours max to complete. This is of course without the super-fine anti-aliasing and heavy effects along with a small render resolution .

Aside from the amazing neat things I seen with Bryce, im still curious of its max potiental? I do still wish to learn others opinions with how well Bryce fairs agasint its top competitors :D

If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t there a topic about this before the site change? I feel like I’m not the first person to ask this hmm

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Posted: 28 May 2013 02:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Apoc23 - 28 May 2013 01:54 AM

@Horo:
I remembered a post where you mentioned that part of what eats memory in Bryce was the undo function. Other then closing down and re-opening Bryce, and using smaller resolution textures, I don’t have to much information on how to prevent crashes on Bryce. I would also love to learn tricks on how to improve my renders without having to upgrade to a new system smile. At the moment, I usally start my renders at night and they take about 8hours max to complete. This is of course without the super-fine anti-aliasing and heavy effects along with a small render resolution .

That’s right, the undo-buffer. A very bad thing I’ve discovered a fortnight ago is with the Objects Library. If you click on an object, then on another and yet another, then leave the library with the [X] without selecting anything in the end: each and every object you clicked on while in the library is in the memory until you quit Bryce.

There are many things to consider when speed is important and I cannot recall all. High frequency bump slows, IBL and transparent materials, high IBL quality settings (double quality, double render time) and soft IBL shadows are among the worst as far as speed is concerned. Maximum ray depth setting should be as low as possible because each additional ray depth adds around 15 to 20% to the render time. Most of the time, you get away with 3 unless transparent materials are used, then you need 1 more for each transparent surface the ray has to cross. Rays per pixel in the Premium Render options doubles render time each time. The good news here is if you add more premium effects, the render time will not considerably increase. Then you have the Anti Aliasing settings in the Render Options that can be adapted for speed against quality. Plop render a difficult part and see how far you can lower the quality and how much speed you gain.

 

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Posted: 28 May 2013 02:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Wow this is great advice :D Thank you so much! I should one day sit down and test what I and my cpu can really handle and is confortable with

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Posted: 28 May 2013 03:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I have fun seeing now far I can push my Bryce before it screams at me.  I am nowhere near as techniically minded as many here, but od like pushing Bryce.  Saving often and using the incremental saves is usually my saviour, as when I crash I never have to far to go backwards to the last saved version.

My latest render, as Horo and others have said I could have continued playing around and got my final result in Bryce, but I did cheat and lightly postwork it, using a photography type filter rather than keep plugging on, but did get a reasonable final result.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/19391/P675/#335820

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Posted: 28 May 2013 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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you must teach me the secret to how you make your trees so healthy and lively smile?
do you create each one individually? or do you just create a few trees and give them a lot of brances?

After creating my space scene a few posts back, was the first time I ever experienced Bryce crashing on me other then for small bug.
It made me think if I reached my max in terms of complex scenes? Of course I could of post worked the whole thing by rendering piece by piece… but what fun would that be raspberry?
I do get a kick as much of a kick from pushing a program to its potiental, but I do fear wiether or not Bryce can handle my more crazed adventurous projects.

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Posted: 28 May 2013 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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The front trees are imported trees rather than Bryce native trees. I have a small collection of tree models, which I add to as and when I can afford them.  The back ground trees are Bryce trees, and my first experiment with using instancing. I was late starting to use Bryce7 as I had to wait till I could afford to upgrade my old and trusty PC before I could really use it. (old PC was sadly under the recommended spec and aging, like me. cool smirk  think single core and only 1gb ram}

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Posted: 28 May 2013 06:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Apoc23 - 28 May 2013 01:54 AM

I would also love to learn tricks on how to improve my renders without having to upgrade to a new system smile. At the moment, I usally start my renders at night and they take about 8hours max to complete. This is of course without the super-fine anti-aliasing and heavy effects along with a small render resolution .

Apart from all of Horo’s most excellent advise, I’d also add that quite a lot of people avoid Super Fine because they perceive that it will be a long render time, so they go for Fine Art, which as we have discovered here is the least efficient render setting, it seems to take the worst of Normal and Super Fine and creates a really slow render time.
In reality the Normal and Fine use one render engine and the Super Fine uses a completely different (and more efficient) engine.

Another thing that people don’t always take into consideration is that when doing a normal render, there is the anti aliasing pass to consider. This final pass isn’t included in the Bryce render time estimation and depending on what materials etc are used in the scene, can add considerably to the overall render time (sometimes as much as a third again) When using Super fine, this anti aliasing pass is not necessary and therefore the Bryce render time estimate is a more accurate reflection of how long it’ll take.

Contrary to popular opinion I haven’t found soft shadows adds much to overall render times and I use them a lot. I usually default to using Super Fine with True Ambience and soft shadows and rarely get a render that takes more than 4-6 hours, most of them are about 1 hour when I’m only doing them to post on the forum (commercial renders I do for my clients can take a lot longer). Unless there is glass in the scene I set the Max Ray depth to 3 and If I remember correctly setting 48 bit dither also increases render times.

IBL along with TA increases render times but TA optimising the HDRI makes an improvement, though IBL with TA means you don’t get an accurate nano preview either in the sky lab or the top left viewport preview. Plop rendering and experience help a lot in that respect.

David’s Obscure Lighting method helps reduce render times whil adding very realistic lighting set ups. Full instructions are on his various video tutorials covering the subject.

And just for reference, I use a 7 year old bog standard Mac-Book laptop for all my Bryce work, so I’m not on an all singing all dancing super computer. smile

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Posted: 28 May 2013 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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So what you are saying is the more quality the slower. the less quality the faster? I am rendering a landscape which may take a weak to finish. The more terrain the more time it take to render.

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Posted: 28 May 2013 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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There are lots of variables which will either speed up or slow down a render.

Without seeing a rough screen grab or something of your scene and your render/material/light settings it’s difficult to say exactly what you could do to speed up a particular render, but, yes on the whole; better quality takes more time to render than poorer quality (though often the differences aren’t really too different and there are exceptions as in using the Fine Art setting which will give no better results than Super Fine art and yet Super Fine Art will render much quicker because it’s a completely different and more efficient render engine.

A week sounds extremely excessive though and I wouldn’t be surprised if we couldn’t help you to cut that down drastically. smile

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