DAZ becoming slow, and slower, and AWFULLY SLOWER???????????? + number of bugs.

elhectroelhectro Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

Hello, I'm writting this because of my frustration.... I have DAZ installed in 2 computers one a laptop with 4g ram, i3 intel second gen, windows 7 and another a desktop i7 3rd generation, 8 g of ram, windows 8.
What I've found is that DAZ is definitely the most unstable software and unpredictable software I've ever found in my life.

This are issues that happen in both computers:
1. Aftter every hard rendering, the program becomes very very slow, and sometimes, I even have to reset, because it affects all the system.
2. Content is installed very different in both computers. In the lap, using DIM, NOTHING appears in Smart Content, as in the desktop, and there are some content that even it's installed in the same location, when I make a scene in one computer, it just don't open ok in the other... For example with Mage tower and its accesories... And this happen also with skysystem.
3. Why is DAZ so terribly bad organized when you install something????? You never know if it's going to be installed in DAZ content, poser content, in props, figures, environment, etc... For example with lisa's nature items. Some are installed in Environments, other in Props/Nature, other in a new menu called Plants.... The same with every store, like stonemason, some products in Environments/Architecture, other in Props/Architecture..... IT's just a BIG MESS!!!! With any item is the same.
4. There are some content, that don't have the option "Merge into scene" just "load, open, etc.." and the only way to access it is selecting "show in smart content" (which by the way has to be done TWICE). so accesing it is so slooow. This items are poised poses for genesis and grimelizer and rag erator (dirty shaders), and others I don't remember..

Issues on the laptop.
1. Now daz is slower than every, freezes all the time, and it's just unworkable. It just happened since I installed the beta version 4.5 and now the new 4.6. Before, I was having problems loading more than 6 figures with cloth, which was fully undestandable, because of the low RAM, in a computer 5 years old. But now, I can wait for 5 minutes to load a scene with just one single victoria figure!!! And then, after a rendering, daz becomes slower....

I don't get it, supposedely there's a new render engine in daz 4.6, and now it's worse...
I really love daz, because it has made me build incedible images I would have never imagined I could ever do. But I strongly believe that something has to be done to make the software a lot more efficient, and a lot more organized. That's my wishlist for future versions. DON'T PUT NEW FEATURES, JUST MAKE THINGS WORK 100% EFFICIENT!!!!
Thanks.

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 25,400
    edited December 1969

    Content organisation is not a DS issue, it's a question of how the installer is set up and what formats the files are in. If items with metadata are not appearing in Smart Content, and scenes are failing to open, that does suggest there may be a problem with your content paths (though, as discussed in another thread recently, saving items loaded from.daz files in a .duf scene can create a file that won't readily load on another machine even if the content and paths are correct).

    Are you using the 32 or 64 bit version of DAZ Studio? The 32 bit version can be quite limited in what it can handle, but the 64 bit version doesn't usually show the symptoms you report.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 2,528
    edited May 2013

    hectorblg said:

    Hello, I'm writting this because of my frustration.... I have DAZ installed in 2 computers one a laptop with 4g ram, i3 intel second gen, windows 7 and another a desktop i7 3rd generation, 8 g of ram, windows 8.
    What I've found is that DAZ is definitely the most unstable software and unpredictable software I've ever found in my life.


    Windows 7 32 bit or 64? if 32 bit you need to enable 3GB switch at boot or your are only getting 2GB RAM for Studio.
    What else are you running on those system?

    hectorblg said:

    This are issues that happen in both computers:
    1. Aftter every hard rendering, the program becomes very very slow, and sometimes, I even have to reset, because it affects all the system.


    What rendering engine? 3Delight? LuxRender? Something else? most if not all Rendering Engines are RAM intensive and CPU intensive and depending on how they were coded or how your system is set up or both they can take a moment or two to "cool down" and give you your RAM back, if they hit the wall with RAM they go for disk cache and all bets are off if you want that thing to stop on a dime and give back your resources.

    hectorblg said:

    2. Content is installed very different in both computers. In the lap, using DIM, NOTHING appears in Smart Content, as in the desktop, and there are some content that even it's installed in the same location, when I make a scene in one computer, it just don't open ok in the other... For example with Mage tower and its accesories... And this happen also with skysystem.


    Is that the application or is that the way Windows 7 and Windows 8 differ on where they like to put things? I don't use smart content, I turn it off, the hell with it.

    hectorblg said:

    3. Why is DAZ so terribly bad organized when you install something????? You never know if it's going to be installed in DAZ content, poser content, in props, figures, environment, etc... For example with lisa's nature items. Some are installed in Environments, other in Props/Nature, other in a new menu called Plants.... The same with every store, like stonemason, some products in Environments/Architecture, other in Props/Architecture..... IT's just a BIG MESS!!!! With any item is the same.

    you should get a readme when you install that should tell you where your newly installed content went, it opens up in a browser windows. Some content is Studio and Poser friendly, some is DS 4 exclusive, some vendors use their own rules, Daz has said they will start providing .zip files so you're not tied to the installer. It can be frustrating trying to read a vendors mind but the alternative is I have no control of my runtime and that's unacceptable too.


    4. There are some content, that don't have the option "Merge into scene" just "load, open, etc.." and the only way to access it is selecting "show in smart content" (which by the way has to be done TWICE). so accesing it is so slooow. This items are poised poses for genesis and grimelizer and rag erator (dirty shaders), and others I don't remember..

    any scene you made in DS4.5 is going to be a manual merge that you need implement. Anything before is an automatic. I never thought about it, it's probably DSON and that thing is awesome and I'll box some ears in Utah if they mess it up now.


    Issues on the laptop.
    1. Now daz is slower than every, freezes all the time, and it's just unworkable. It just happened since I installed the beta version 4.5 and now the new 4.6. Before, I was having problems loading more than 6 figures with cloth, which was fully undestandable, because of the low RAM, in a computer 5 years old. But now, I can wait for 5 minutes to load a scene with just one single victoria figure!!! And then, after a rendering, daz becomes slower....

    my legacy (pre 4.5) scenes take a while to load, try resaving then reloading and see if the problem persists.


    I don't get it, supposedely there's a new render engine in daz 4.6, and now it's worse...
    I really love daz, because it has made me build incedible images I would have never imagined I could ever do. But I strongly believe that something has to be done to make the software a lot more efficient, and a lot more organized. That's my wishlist for future versions. DON'T PUT NEW FEATURES, JUST MAKE THINGS WORK 100% EFFICIENT!!!!
    Thanks.


    actually mine is noticeably faster on my i7 920 12GB with some big-@$$ files getting thrown at it so what else is running on those systems and what are you trying to render?

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • elhectroelhectro Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Content organisation is not a DS issue, it's a question of how the installer is set up and what formats the files are in. If items with metadata are not appearing in Smart Content, and scenes are failing to open, that does suggest there may be a problem with your content paths (though, as discussed in another thread recently, saving items loaded from.daz files in a .duf scene can create a file that won't readily load on another machine even if the content and paths are correct).

    Are you using the 32 or 64 bit version of DAZ Studio? The 32 bit version can be quite limited in what it can handle, but the 64 bit version doesn't usually show the symptoms you report.

    First of all Thanks a lot for replying!

    I'm using in both computers a 64 bit system. The reason of why I'm thinking DAZ is a very poorly organized software is this. I'm a music producer and I've been working with a lot of software like Cubase, Reason, Cakewalk... and what I've seen every time I install different plug ins from different companies, no matter where I install them, THEY ALWAYS appear at the same location. I just open the plug in section and everything's there. What I really hate about DAZ is now after installing the DIM, I expected things to be a little different, but it remain the same. I can buy 2 items of the same company, (stonemason, for example) and it would be a mystery where it will install. For example, the series of Dark places which I bought 3 of them. I Installed the three with DIM, two were installed at Daz library/props/architecture/stonemason, and the third was installed at daz library/props/stonemason. For example, with lisa botanicals, all the items are in different locations.... same with a jepes fx bundle, where half of the items are found in smart content, and the other can only be accesed via poser in content library. Now everytime I buy something, it's always a BIG mystery where it will be found. I expected that DIM would help in this, supposedely is and automatic installer that should at least install items from the same company at the same location... Now, after getting too much items, I have to loose time remembering and looking for everything. Hope sometime daz developers do something about it, maybe organizing plug ins by company, or forcing content developers to organize their installers.

  • elhectroelhectro Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Windows 7 32 bit or 64? if 32 bit you need to enable 3GB switch at boot or your are only getting 2GB RAM for Studio.
    What else are you running on those system?]

    It's 64 bit on both computers, and how can I enable 3 gb for daz? I don't know which settings I have...


    What rendering engine? 3Delight? LuxRender? Something else? most if not all Rendering Engines are RAM intensive and CPU intensive and depending on how they were coded or how your system is set up or both they can take a moment or two to "cool down" and give you your RAM back, if they hit the wall with RAM they go for disk cache and all bets are off if you want that thing to stop on a dime and give back your resources.

    It's 3delight. I'm always lookin at task manager if daz is still procesing data when it shouldn't and I don't see strange issues there. I believe maybe daz has a problem that doesn't close temp files... or something like that, because it's so strange that system becomes slower after every render.


    Is that the application or is that the way Windows 7 and Windows 8 differ on where they like to put things? I don't use smart content, I turn it off, the hell with it.


    You're right! Smart content SUCKS.


    my legacy (pre 4.5) scenes take a while to load, try resaving then reloading and see if the problem persists.

    the slow, slower, and a lot slower issue in my laptop is happening with new content, and specially after 4.6. When I work in a scene with more than 3 chars, I made my own method of starting it with nude figures, and not get them dressed until everything has the correct pose, position and light. Now, I'm having a real hard problem with scenes with only one fully clothed char, and without anything else, which before daz 4.6 was a little slow but nothing serious. Now, with this one figure scenes, daz freezes for some minutes only because I expand or collapse the content library view port!!! It's frustrating!

    Thanks a lot for answering!!!


    actually mine is noticeably faster on my i7 920 12GB with some big-@$$ files getting thrown at it so what else is running on those systems and what are you trying to render?
  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,762
    edited May 2013

    hectorblg said:
    ...The reason of why I'm thinking DAZ is a very poorly organized software is this. I'm a music producer and I've been working with a lot of software like Cubase, Reason, Cakewalk... and what I've seen every time I install different plug ins from different companies, no matter where I install them, THEY ALWAYS appear at the same location...

    Well there you go confusing the issue with experience of other software. It's much easier to accept if one doesn't realize there is a better way out there ;p

    The reasons for how the 'mess' evolved are complicated and not very relevant actually. The fact is, it is a mess and you are correct, it should be sorted out. It takes resources to do that (sort it out) and DAZ as a company has to allocate what resources they have as best they can. If you search the forums on this you can see much discussion, more then you would care to read. Most here feel your pain.

    [Edit] One other thing related to this. 3D objects, scenes etc.. are much more complicated then keeping track of something like music clips or photoshop plugins. I've worked with all of them, so this is from experience. 3D graphics objects add a whole new dimension of complexity in tracking and managing so it can be quite a challenge.

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 1,715
    edited December 1969

    I'm quite surprised that you encounter this with your machine, since I think yours is far better than mine and mine only starts to slow when I load big or seemingly Very heavy scenes/scenery or adds several lights. Not sure if it helps any, but this is what I have ...

    Prestanda classifaction - 5.9

    Processor - Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2310 CPU @ 2.90 GHz

    RAM - 8,00GB

    Systemtype - 64-bit OS Windows 7 Home Premium

    Graphic card - GeForce GT 530 version 314.22


    Could it perhaps be a virus program (or some other background program) that is causing some trouble? For example...I tend to turn off the inbuilt windows virus protection and use another instead, but it has happened that Windows has turned on their protection without me knowing and than keeps working in the background, which tend to slow a lot of things for me. Just a thought as I really isn't good when it comes to these computer things, I do hope your problems will be resolved

    /C

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 2,528
    edited May 2013

    hectorblg said:

    It's 64 bit on both computers, and how can I enable 3 gb for daz? I don't know which settings I have...


    You don't need to do anything, if one was 32 bit you would but 64 bit windows can see your RAM and use it with no 'trickery"


    the slow, slower, and a lot slower issue in my laptop is happening with new content, and specially after 4.6. When I work in a scene with more than 3 chars, I made my own method of starting it with nude figures, and not get them dressed until everything has the correct pose, position and light. Now, I'm having a real hard problem with scenes with only one fully clothed char, and without anything else, which before daz 4.6 was a little slow but nothing serious. Now, with this one figure scenes, daz freezes for some minutes only because I expand or collapse the content library view port!!! It's frustrating!

    This may be related to your video card. What kind of card do you have and is it integrated or dedicated (does it share RAM with the system or does it have it's own RAM)?
    Make sure your drivers for your video card are up-to-date from the vendor and not from Microsoft (they are usually several versions behind and out-of-date)
    You may also want to check your display settings inside Studio, I use Tool Tips:Off, Hardware Anti-Aliasing:Off, Display Optimization:None, Texture Resources: Performance. You may also want to shut Backface Lighting off too. If you are running an Nvidia control panel in your windows OS you may want to change the optimization to something other than Auto, I'm on a Mac right now and I don't recall where that is.

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • OK Now I turned on 'java' & going 2 C if pastes properly this time. If java was required 2 make it paste properly, that is a bad idea.  U should make your site work like other forums where it pastes WHAT WE SEE WHEN WE TYPE =D  You have a bug in your forum design...

     

    ~ I've never used DAZ B 4, & the 1'st things I noticed (on 32 bit Windows XP SP3, on 3Ghz Pentium 4 [Passmark around 600 in single thread mode] IBM S50 PC + 1GB RAM) R:

    1) Extermely slow & opens tons of processes, needlessly wasting CPU even on things as simple as a file save dialog box = 100% CPU just 2 have a save box open.  Closing the save box releases the CPU! HAHA

    2) N E time U change something in a scene, if U R using N E other programs or go back 2 the desktop, the preview ('scene' in the center with figures) can disappear & display the wallpaper or parts of some other window that was present in that area.  DX interfacing problem??

    3) All the functions R absurdly slow, like the whole thing is not actually written 4 PC X86 type CPUs or something, & is running under 'emulation'. There is no other reason but BAD PROGRAMMING that it should consume tons of CPU just 2 open various little 'action command' type boxes within the program, or sliding some action bar thing should stick & hang while U wait 4 it 2 catch up with your mouse.  that's something I expect when running something in say, 'VMWare' or some other type of 'EMULATED' environment (where it's not actually talking directly 2 the CPU, but going through some kind of 'translation' layer where it 'emulates' commands instead).  The fact that I can play fast 3D GAMES on this machine (not the most modern ones of course, as it's a 3Ghz Pentium 4) proves that this is a problem with the way DAZ is WRITTEN, and NOT the fault of the MACHINE.  These 'old' 3D games have  'cartoonish' type 3D like the DAZ 'preview' pane is showing in the 'walkthrough' tutorials, yet the games R so infinitely FASTER!  Somebody needs 2 translate DAZ into some kind of 'game language' or something 2 make it work properly.  This reminds me of how Micro$oft makes the OS so insanely bloated with 7 & 8 & so on that people actually believe they need 4GB of RAM & a quad core 2 check their E-Mail or something =)) Give me a break.

    This machine I use is very FAST if U simply use the right software. Some software is really slow & bloated, like 4 instance Google Chrome is horribly slow compared 2 Firefox, & Winamp is horribly slow compared 2 VLC, which is still slower than MPC-HC, and 'LAVFilters' is slower than 'FFDSHOW' 4 video, & 'AC3Filter' is faster than 'FFDSHOW' 4 audio, & so on.  It's all a matter of choosing the right SOFTWARE 2 make the machine run fast & reliable =)  I can play back 1080p HD videos on this machine.  Another trick is 2 disable 'legacy' support in the BIOS, and disable also the 'quiet fan' mode.  It's not even in the case as I have a big dell heat sink on it & bla bla in 'Frankenstein' mode HAHA  Next month I might be running some other machine I got for free off the street.  Part of the fun is making old junk run fast & stable =)

    There are MILLIONS of 'slow and junky' PCs in the world that MILLIONS (billions?) of people use often.  If you could make DAZ run fast even on old hardware (which is most certainly doable, as 3D games run fast & have even nicer graphics than the preview window does) then U can make a LOT more sales.

    You must account for the fact that when you make your software so painfully slow, you lose a LOT of customers because the REAL cost of using it also (in many cases) must include HUNDREDS of dollars for an upgraded or faster computer! =(

    Here is my suggestion: Hand DAZ off to a computer gaming maker that writes stuff that can run quickly on 'trashy' old PC-based hardware like the X-Box (I am not a gamer but I hear they R just a regular little PC in a tiny box for gaming).  Have them make your thing faster so millions more people can use it and you can therefore get potentially millions more sales, because people can enjoy playing with it as an INTERACTIVE TOY rather than having to wait like 3 minutes just to watch the 'barefoot dancer' change her position = WTF?!  =))

    If U need some more tips on what U can do 2 fix this thing 2 appeal 2 a much wider market, let me know at 'balkanguy at live dot com'.  Since I am 'new' to it I give an accurate impression of what an EXPERIENCED computer user notices is wrong.  Obviously, something this slow would IMMEDIATELY turn off a novice or 'amateur' type PC user.  I was hoping for a fun toy I could use to pose characters and enjoy making them do different things, but what I get is this super-slow molasses 'watching paint dry' experience where everything moves at a snail's pace'

    Think of it like this.  Think of the 'center window preview area' like a game playback window... like as if the user is playing a computer game in that area.  Make it quick & RESPONSIVE!  & if they want 2 'render' something 4 'photo-realistic' results, so B it... provide some 'rendering' buttons, but hell... even an old machine like this can do fancy games with fun-looking characters.  It doesn't need 2 B really smooth 4 previews, but waiting so long just for the MENUS and CONTROL BARS 2 respond?  Your program is BROKEN!  Imagine that kind of lack of responsiveness in a media player or office application or something. That's just sad =))  The fact it's a 'rendering' app doesn't give U an excuse 2 make it's basic functionality so painfully, annoyingly slow.  Please fix it. I would really like to use it if it were fast, like it COULD be.

    4) You should make the thing portable, so it can be run from a USB stick =)  If U R worried about 'licensing' issues U could make it so each computer the user wants 2 run with certain 'paid' plugins must set the stick 2 only play those plugins on machines that have a license installed on them through some kind of 'digital dongle' or whatever.  It's not that hard.

    5) Make your install manager work properly.  Now it gives an error message because 'path not set'.  It should AUTOMATICALLY set the path to a 'default' location rather than me having 2 google 2 fix this bug in your install process.

    6) The user should not have 2 'select noting' 2 choose options. There should B a button or menu item 2 select each function.  That kind of 'hidden elite special user Easter egg' bull$hit is a huge turn off, like Blender with it's 'hidden' menu options if U magically know (how the fuk?) 2 highlight some tiny line in the middle & drag it up 2 display some 'hidden' menu options... give me a break.  If the user needs 2 'click nothing', what YOU really need 2 do is provide a clearly labeled BUTTON or MENU ITEM so they do not HAVE 2 read some 'tutorial' 2 find that option.

    Philosophy of good programming, in order of importance:
    Fast as possible without sacrificing functionality (choose the right 'language' without snail-like 'emulation' bull$hit, etc.)
    Interface clearly labeled in English wherever there is room (not 'alien art scribble icons' on buttons, unless it's very clear what they do)
    Provide menu options 4 every function (so people don't have 2 guess or read a manual, but simply browse around)
    Don't waste screen space with empty space or oversized stuff.
    Give the user the option to run it WITHOUT a skin, so their native Windows skin will be used. I like classic, customized dark =)  If U simply had NO skin, it would automatically look like people already LIKE!
    Keep the program as small as possible without losing quality or functionality (like getting rid of 'iternational languages' in an 'English' distribution, giving the user the option 2 de-select non-critical components, etc.)

    BLA BLA BLA! =)

  • BTW: Reading some more comments here, is there really no way for the user to rearrange their plugins in the 'content' lists in DAZ? That's absurd... especially since it 'keeps moving things around on it's own'! You should either make it consistent, or at least give the user the ability to CUSTOMIZE that. Firefox has a bazillion 'add ons' that can change menus & other things. It can certainly be done. Another thing I just notices is it does not seem there is N E way 4 me 2 delete my own redundant comments. U should give a 'remove comment' option @ least 2 the people who posted their own comment, like if they accidentally repost, or want 2 modify their post. Your forum has some problems like this that should be fixed =)
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 22,708

    You do realise that you have resuurected a 2½ year old thread which would be about a very much older version of DS than is currently available.

  • DAZ Studio (not DAZ) uses OpenGL, not Direct X. it may well be that your PC does not have a good implementation of OpenGL which would account for much of your performance discrepancy between games (DirectX, probably) and DS (OpenGL) and for the display glitches. Windows XP is not, in any event, fully supported - the Open Image IO library used, for example, does not work on XP - and of course 32 bit imposes limits on applications such as DS that handle large amounts of data (and you don't get the Iray render engine, though even with a 64 bit OS upgrade I ssupect you'd be limited to CPU rendering which is slower). Games are generally optimised for the specific content they handle, and so can be fast at that (speed is, after all, a requirement of anything but a turn-based game) while DS needs to handle many different mixes of data.

    I'm really not sure what you mean by

    The user should not have [to] 'select noting' [to] choose options.

    so it's hard to comment on that.

    In DIM, the missing path usually occurs when you are installing soemthign like the Photoshop bridge or GoZ - you of course need to tell the installer that you have those applications, if you do, which version you have, and where it is installed.

    Content is not "plug-ins", and you can rearrange the files on disc if you wish - at the expense of breaking the CMS and updates via DIM. The by-file view is in the Content Library pane, under the various "... Formats" headings. You can also create OS shortcuts/aliases to files and arrange those, which is a safer option.

    Smart Content being totally blank sounds like a conflict, possibly with security software - assuming that the CMS engine (PostgreSQL) is installed. Are you using ZoneAlarm on the machine with non-functioning Smart Content?

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