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Subsurface Shaders… WOW!
Posted: 29 May 2013 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 361 ]
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Mercedesk - 29 May 2013 02:55 PM

WOW! Something happened! The box popped up, and I chose ignore… uuuhhhh, didn’t choose a light set, nor any of those color balls, if I was supposed to, which ones?

Partials?
Presets?

Progress is being made… this is good… I think… better than it was… that’s for certain! smile

Not fully understanding the issues you’re getting, but I did forget to mention the need to check which UVs the skin you have applied uses and to be sure to switch it back to those UVs if the shader changes them.

Hope it all gets figured out.  Yeah, my instructions were PC instructions.  You on a mac? I can ask a friend what the mac method is, if so.

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Posted: 29 May 2013 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 362 ]
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MAB - 29 May 2013 02:58 PM
Mercedesk - 29 May 2013 02:55 PM

WOW! Something happened! The box popped up, and I chose ignore… uuuhhhh, didn’t choose a light set, nor any of those color balls, if I was supposed to, which ones?

Partials?
Presets?

Progress is being made… this is good… I think… better than it was… that’s for certain! smile

Not fully understanding the issues you’re getting, but I did forget to mention the need to check which UVs the skin you have applied uses and to be sure to switch it back to those UVs if the shader changes them.

Hope it all gets figured out.  Yeah, my instructions were PC instructions.  You on a mac? I can ask a friend what the mac method is, if so.

No, it’s all good, PC… not a Mac… I’ll keep working with it. Thanks!

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Posted: 29 May 2013 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 363 ]
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Okay, she’s a bit too shiny, I agree, especially around the neck to torso… but I may keep doing this to get the right settings, and perhaps workout the realism… thanks for the help!

Please double click her to get the large zoomed in version.

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Posted: 29 May 2013 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 364 ]
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In my experience the black colour that some shaders take on when they should be another colour is a combination of Group ID & Shader Scale.

I did post a few pages back here:- http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/22193/P150/#330938 with a sample picture to help.

For clothing items a scale of Small or Medium seem to work for me, the Group ID seems to need to be set to avoid clashes with other materials using SSS shaders that use different settings.

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Posted: 29 May 2013 03:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 365 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 29 May 2013 02:42 PM

More experimentation. This time I lowered the subsurface scatter effect to make it more subtle and bring out the detail in her face. The original settings pretty much annihilated any imperfections and blemishes and gave a more toonish look to her. I think my tweaks came out rather nicely, but what are your thoughts?

No postwork was used in this image.

The skin looks nice, but I see some strange shadows (like partial eyelashes?) across the eye surface. More strange shadows from the front hair strand near the scalp and girls left eye. Is this perhaps a shadow bias issue on your light? I like to use shadow bias of 0.1 when I see issues like the broken lash shadow.

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Posted: 29 May 2013 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 366 ]
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This probably comes a bit late but I have a few thoughts that might shed a little light on things.

One important thing to note is that the !Subsurface Base Shader preset contains no settings. It only loads the base code and attempts to match the settings that were on the surface before the shader was applied. It is better at interpreting the settings of the DS default than it is UberSurface. This is because US has on and off settings for things like reflection.

For instance, if you load Genesis and apply the “Sample Lana - No Gen” mat preset that comes with Genesis Essentials, you can see that it uses UberSurface as its default skin shader. In those skin surfaces the Reflection Strength is set to 100% but, above it, Reflection Active is set to Off.

The SSS shader has an internal switch that drops all reflection calculations but only if the Reflection strength is set to 0%. When the SSS shader reads the original surface it sees that reflection should be set to 100% and promptly turns reflections on.

Similarly, applying over a DS default surface using non-zero ambient strength and ambient maps, the SSS shader will load those settings into the Subsurface color and strength slots. That was a call on my part after discussing it by Dimension Theory. I made that decision based on the fact that ambient works quite a bit differently between the two shaders and because of how many available skin sets there are which use ambient settings to simulate a SSS effect. The Ambient-to-SSS settings may not be ideal after initial application of the SSS base but I figured this might help give a starting point for those wanting to set up SSS based skin.

So the results you get from just applying the !Subsurface Base Shader preset are bound to not look a bit less than exciting. In some cases you may see no difference at all. Now, depending on how the DS or US original surface was set up, you might double click the SSS base and see something that looks really good.

Unlike the code-only base shader, when you apply a material preset such as the toon skins, or a shader preset like gummy and plastic, DS will load the SSS shader and apply all the settings as I intended. I expect we will see many new skin sets which use the SSS Shader in the near future.

The new SSS toolbox from Dimension Theory is loaded with tons of partial presets meaning that they selectively affect certain aspects of the SSS shader settings. These are intended to help people adjust and fine tune the SSS shader settings without the need of hunting down and spinning a lot of dials. Many of them change multiple, complementary parameters at once so you can change things quickly and easily see what is affected by glancing at the icons. I think DT’s set will be really helpful in easing the learning curve of the SSS Shader.

Lastly I want to mention that, although I hope people find it very useful, the base shader is not really meant to be an all or nothing replacement for UberSurface. Each shader has some features that the other doesn’t. Omnifreaker did a great job with UberSurface and it is a very useful shader. I’m probably biased, but I like the new SSS shader and intend to use it for all things SSS and also when I need some procedural bump or soft translucency on an item. smile With that said, I know I will still continue to use UberSurface for many other things.

 

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Posted: 29 May 2013 08:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 367 ]
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Well that answers a few questions I was about to pose.

I agree Uber Surface is an excellent resources and has a few functions that are not present in the new shader base so I too will still continue to use it. However with reading the PDF again and getting the Toolbox today I can see the differences in the two straight way.

What annoys me most is lack of detalled information about US/US2 but this is nor the time or place to moan about that. smile

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Posted: 29 May 2013 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 368 ]
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I haven’t really messed around with US2, to my knowledge. But I do know that, in general, I have always preferred to mix up different shaders for different surfaces. Kind of like how applying a shader perfect for fabrics is unlikely to get me the same level of detail I want for metals/glass. I do have to say, that I do find US and SSS to be quite complimentary to each other for various objects in scenes (like the one I posted a couple of pages back. The car, in particular, used many textures based on US (Fisty’s hardcore utilities, if I remember right for the metals and such), but I LOVE the way the reflections work off of SSS for the “paint job” cheese

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Posted: 29 May 2013 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 369 ]
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Virtual_World - 28 May 2013 05:12 PM

Love this new SSS base shader.  I specially love the effect on the eyes and teeth.  See attached.

Congratulations AOA!!!!

What settings did you use on the eyes and teeth for that image?

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Posted: 29 May 2013 10:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 370 ]
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Greetings,
This is an out-of-the-blue question, but do these shaders handle light directly behind something partially glowing through?

So…let’s say I set up a lightbulb (a light source of some kind) and surrounded it in a lampshade.  Could I apply some variation on a sub-surface shader that showed the glow from the light inside?  It strikes me that the classic image of an SSS is the light behind someone’s ears shining through redly, which could also work as a lampshade, essentially.

Thoughts?

— Morgan

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Posted: 29 May 2013 11:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 371 ]
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Cypherfox - 29 May 2013 10:25 PM

Greetings,
This is an out-of-the-blue question, but do these shaders handle light directly behind something partially glowing through?

So…let’s say I set up a lightbulb (a light source of some kind) and surrounded it in a lampshade.  Could I apply some variation on a sub-surface shader that showed the glow from the light inside?  It strikes me that the classic image of an SSS is the light behind someone’s ears shining through redly, which could also work as a lampshade, essentially.

Thoughts?

— Morgan

Yes you can. but with a disclaimer…

SSS really needs a surface for the light to enter and exit. So if you plop a point light inside a single layer cylinder for a lamp shade you won’t see any thing or you will see a mess hehe.

There are 2 solutions. Either use the flip normals switch to turn the SSS calculation inside out which works but is not going to give very accurate results or you can add a second, inside layer to your lamp shade. In that case apply the same shader settings to both the inside and outside surfaces of the lamp shade except make the outside layer flip normals set to 0 and the inside set to 1.

An easy way to add the layer is to use a geometry shell and off set it slightly.

I posted an example a while back but can’t remember what page it was on.

 

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Posted: 30 May 2013 01:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 372 ]
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barbult - 29 May 2013 03:58 PM

The skin looks nice, but I see some strange shadows (like partial eyelashes?) across the eye surface. More strange shadows from the front hair strand near the scalp and girls left eye. Is this perhaps a shadow bias issue on your light? I like to use shadow bias of 0.1 when I see issues like the broken lash shadow.

I didn’t notice that until you mentioned it. Remedied the problem, and yes you are correct the shadow bias was oddly high for some reason. Thanks for the eagle-eyed observation.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 01:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 373 ]
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Is there any way to turn off Occlusion with this shader?
I haven’t found a way but wondered if there was, my computers not that great and I’m too old to wait for hair to render with Occlusion on.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 01:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 374 ]
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No. Sorry. I would suggest using UberSurface for hair. It has anisotropic highlights too which look good on hair. That is unless you are doing toon style plastic or gummy hair smile  But then I would probably not use transparency maps on that type of hair anyway.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 01:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 375 ]
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I’m loving the base shader!  Been playing with this image for a while, and here’s the (semi) end result…

Goth girl, using a dial spun Genesis and manupliated Tori V5 skin, with the base shader, skin2 applied.

Still needs more work, but I’m happy with how it’s progressing.

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