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Best Practice for Exporting Carrara Files to Poser? Poser 2014 equals the Death of Carrara?
Posted: 12 May 2013 03:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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To Kevin.
Many thanks, I downloaded it (Dyn_to_morph) from carraracafe and tried it.. it works. Good help from you.

Regards,

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Posted: 12 May 2013 06:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Once C8.5 is released dyn2morph will be a thing of the past. C8.5 can open Studio DUF. So now can transfer Studio dynamic clothing scenes to carrara.

I personally have never gotten dyn2morph to work for more then 1 frame. And with the revamp of bullet physics in C8.5 you can drape practically any conforming clothes.

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Posted: 12 May 2013 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Dyn_to_morphs.py, the python script I downloaded was tried this morning with 700 frames, and worked perfectly. The other point with dynamic clothing is that I have been using it for years with Poser, and thanks to Phil C the wardrobe is now quite important. Unfortunately, all those dynamic cloths cannot be used in Daz Studio, this is probably the main issue, the second, already indicated is the time for draping which is really faster in the Poser cloth room that with the DazStudio Dynamic clothing, few seconds for one and minutes for the other. By the way if the transfer from Daz Studio to Bryce was as good as the transfer to carrara… it would be really nice…

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Posted: 12 May 2013 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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I watched the Poser Pro vid you suggested Head, and personally, I welcome the new Poser features. Nothing motivates a company more than strong competition. The thought of losing Carrara users over to Poser (which I understand is also more stable than Carrara) is just what the doctor ordered to get them moving once more.

8.5 was necessary and is an essential stepping stone to bigger and better (badder?) things that hopefully Daz already has in their sights.

But it isn’t just a matter of where they are (the features currently being provided), but how fast they’re moving. And I don’t perceive Daz is an “agile” company. 8.5 is taking way too long to get out the door. The fact this thread exists indicates they (Daz) will either have to adapt faster to a growing and highly competitive environment, or risk losing their customer base.

So, Daz, if you’re listening, work on your requirements, development, and testing processes - make them lean and mean. And spend some time communicating with your customer base, listen to their needs, and share the vision of what you are attempting to create!

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Posted: 12 May 2013 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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FractalDimensia - 12 May 2013 10:14 AM

I watched the Poser Pro vid you suggested Head, and personally, I welcome the new Poser features. Nothing motivates a company more than strong competition. The thought of losing Carrara users over to Poser (which I understand is also more stable than Carrara) is just what the doctor ordered to get them moving once more.

8.5 was necessary and is an essential stepping stone to bigger and better (badder?) things that hopefully Daz already has in their sights.

But it isn’t just a matter of where they are (the features currently being provided), but how fast they’re moving. And I don’t perceive Daz is an “agile” company. 8.5 is taking way too long to get out the door. The fact this thread exists indicates they (Daz) will either have to adapt faster to a growing and highly competitive environment, or risk losing their customer base.

So, Daz, if you’re listening, work on your requirements, development, and testing processes - make them lean and mean. And spend some time communicating with your customer base, listen to their needs, and share the vision of what you are attempting to create!

My thoughts exactly.
Except you said them much better than I could smile
Smith Micro obviously have developing Poser as their main priority.
I wasn;t even aware of their working on Poser 2014 until the announcement the otherday.
That shows confidence in their product.

All we get from Daz is gee we are working on documentation and if you are good we will give you a new serial for the beta.
Not that I am complaining. wink

 

 

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Posted: 12 May 2013 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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FractalDimensia - 12 May 2013 10:14 AM

I watched the Poser Pro vid you suggested Head, and personally, I welcome the new Poser features. Nothing motivates a company more than strong competition. The thought of losing Carrara users over to Poser (which I understand is also more stable than Carrara) is just what the doctor ordered to get them moving once more.

8.5 was necessary and is an essential stepping stone to bigger and better (badder?) things that hopefully Daz already has in their sights.

But it isn’t just a matter of where they are (the features currently being provided), but how fast they’re moving. And I don’t perceive Daz is an “agile” company. 8.5 is taking way too long to get out the door. The fact this thread exists indicates they (Daz) will either have to adapt faster to a growing and highly competitive environment, or risk losing their customer base.

So, Daz, if you’re listening, work on your requirements, development, and testing processes - make them lean and mean. And spend some time communicating with your customer base, listen to their needs, and share the vision of what you are attempting to create!


I would seriously doubt Carrara would lose users to Poser. I would think that Carrara users that use content would add it to their tool set. I do agree that DAZ needs to get the Beta done and that some of it’s creakier functions need updating, but for me, it’s still much more flexible than Poser or D/S. The more I look at Poser forums and such, the more I am convinced that “switching” from Carrara would be a step backwards for most Carrara users.

Besides- As Wendy mentioned before, and I alluded to above, there’s no reason not to have both.

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Posted: 12 May 2013 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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SM has actually stepped up their game quite a bit with PP 2014, but for me it still won’t take the place of Carrara. I own every version of Carara since Ray Dream Studio 5.5 (the last version before RDS became Carrara 1), and every version of Poser since P2. You really can own both, but you will have your preferred software. I hadn’t used Poser 2012 for a real reader until Reality 3 came out, mainly because I just don’t get along well with Poser lights. Reality 3 makes it soooo much easier to light in Poser that I’m actually using Poser again.

I got PP 2012 when it went on a really good sale (I think I paid $120), mainly because I wanted to use Anastasia from Blackhearted, and to play with the new SSS. But I was enjoying using Genesis in Carrara so much, I just didn’t feel like fighting with the lighting in Poser. It’s always been a difficult decision for me over the past few years when the new Poser came out whether to buy or not, but this one has several new features that are so much like what DAZ did with Genesis that I do actually want to get it (the fitting room and Subd). Reality 3 will work with it, so I honestly think I’ll get more use out of it than with 2012.

But, after using Poser again over the last couple of weeks, I appreciate both Carrara and DS even more. There are things that they both do so much better than Poser it can get really annoying. That’s not to say that there aren’t things that I like better in Poser, because there are. I really don’t see PP2014 being a Carrara killer, but SM is definitely moving in the right direction. Looks like real compation might be a good thing for for the user. DAZ significantly stepped up the figure and clothing game with Genesis, now Poser is following suit and upping the ante a bit.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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I don’t think Poser is even trying to be in the same category as Carrara, and that’s a good thing. Historically, they’re two very different programs, designed for very different uses. The lines only got blurred when Carrara started trying to be more Poserlike.

I’ve been a Carrara user ever since it was Ray Dream Studio. I’ve had C8Pro for a little while now, and sadly I have to say that Carrara has not advanced far enough that it no longer needs TransPoser. Sorry, but there’s a difference between Being Able To Do Things, and Being Able To Do Things Fluidly. I do a lot of figure/clothing mods, magnets, custom morph targets, stuff that is still either absent or convoluted to work with directly in Carrara, not to mention that texturing is a jumbled mess without TransPoser’s simplified import. I get it that there are workarounds for a lot of things, but it’s just so much quicker, easier, and frankly more pleasant to do all of my work in Poser and just use Carrara for rendering and scene construction.

I’m not griping about Carrara btw. I think it’s AWESOME at its core functionality, building and rendering stunning 3d compositions. But I absolutely despise it as a posing and animation platform. I think both Carrara and Poser work beautifully together, and life was good back when the people developing it had that same philosophy. But no matter what they say, it’s clear that this is no longer the case. When they axed TransPoser, that was a clear message that “You’re either going to use Our Tools, or Poser’s Tools,” and good luck figuring out a workaround if you stick with Poser.

Keeping TransPoser would have been nice, along with all the new stuff they added to Carrara. It’s a shame that I have C8Pro, but still have to use Carrara 5 Pro for all of my work that includes figures. It’s still a (barely) tenable situation, but if I ever do someday have to make a line-in-the-sand choice between Only Carrara or Only Poser, I’d have to take Poser. I’m hoping I never have to make that decision!

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Posted: 13 May 2013 02:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Just some quick words on development of Poser.

SM release a new version every 2 years.  I had to call SM on the phone for tech support several years ago and I got told that a new version gets released about every 2 years by the tech under the way they are working.

Beta copies of 2014 have been out for a few months I found out on the Octane forums.  The current Octane Poser plugin works with 2014 from what I found out.

SM isn’t very good with making new figures, props, etc., unlike DAZ.  SM mostly levees content creation to 3d party.

Was surprised it was being released in May when release in the past of a newer Poser build was usually around August-October.

Manga Studio has been the program that development has been slow in.

Next year will get a new version of Anime Studio if they keep following the development time they have been with that product.

As I said in an earlier post SM is making their products more closely integrated with one another, so I imagine at one point in the future you’ll end up with a SM Program Suite that you can buy which will include: Manga Studio, Poser, Motion Artist, and Anime Studio.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 05:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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evilproducer - 12 May 2013 08:18 PM
FractalDimensia - 12 May 2013 10:14 AM

I watched the Poser Pro vid you suggested Head, and personally, I welcome the new Poser features. Nothing motivates a company more than strong competition. The thought of losing Carrara users over to Poser (which I understand is also more stable than Carrara) is just what the doctor ordered to get them moving once more.

8.5 was necessary and is an essential stepping stone to bigger and better (badder?) things that hopefully Daz already has in their sights.

But it isn’t just a matter of where they are (the features currently being provided), but how fast they’re moving. And I don’t perceive Daz is an “agile” company. 8.5 is taking way too long to get out the door. The fact this thread exists indicates they (Daz) will either have to adapt faster to a growing and highly competitive environment, or risk losing their customer base.

So, Daz, if you’re listening, work on your requirements, development, and testing processes - make them lean and mean. And spend some time communicating with your customer base, listen to their needs, and share the vision of what you are attempting to create!


I would seriously doubt Carrara would lose users to Poser. I would think that Carrara users that use content would add it to their tool set. I do agree that DAZ needs to get the Beta done and that some of it’s creakier functions need updating, but for me, it’s still much more flexible than Poser or D/S. The more I look at Poser forums and such, the more I am convinced that “switching” from Carrara would be a step backwards for most Carrara users.

Besides- As Wendy mentioned before, and I alluded to above, there’s no reason not to have both.

The thing is, say I have them both, but I end up switching a lot of my prioritized renders over to Poser, simply because Carrara is no longer reaching my goals, where Poser is. Carrara could certainly lose people. The only thing I’ve been (only somewhat) paying attention to from Poser, which used to be my main app, are the newsletters they send to my e-mail. Aside from that, I never stop by the SM website or visit any of their forums - or even use any of their products. This is because I was too into Carrara. That can easily turn around the other way.

Another point that fractal dimensia brought up is communication.
I’ve been trying to be a light in the darkness about Daz’s silence, hoping to be saved by some word by now… nothing.
Thanks guys.

I’d have never even looked towards Poser until my buddy comes onto these forums and mention what they’re doing. And I truly thank him for that. But I’d never even imagine switching back to Poser without hearing such news from a trustworthy artist. But there it is… Carrara definitely stands a chance of loosing me to Poser. I’m too busy to always watch to find out what’s going on. And if I can get conforming clothes to sag, tighten, and otherwise create the illusion of being more real, I’ll just use skydomes in place of environments.

Frankly, the point is that Smith Micro is proving to be serious, where Daz3d remains to keep their silence. Granted, it’s probably for good reason, and I’ll just eat these words tomorrow. But people will put their money where their confidence lies. And after seeing the last few SM newsletters compared to what I get from Daz, they certainly seem to be having a lot more confidence in their software, right now - but again… that’s Daz being so silent.

Silence is cool if you back it up with something cool in a timely fashion. But this amount of time is borderline being just plain F…. ing rude!

Won’t change the fact that it would still take a lot to convince “me” from switching away from Carrara. To me… that might be somewhat difficult - since I just love the whole Carrara thing. I have friends who have dumped their Carrara investment(s) already in favor of freeware: Blender, simply because of the drive to move forward. All they would have needed from Daz was a lack of silence. Many people are being turned away simply because “Silence can be cool” is not the card to play while everything is left in turmoil.

So that being said, if too many Carraraists turn away from Daz in favor of Poser, which is not far off from being a true, beneficial step forward in this, particular brand of hobby/profession, Daz could stand to lose that much more resource funding from what was left for silence at a time when all just seems broken - Bam… no more Carrara - which would be a sad day, indeed. A day that I, for one, hope never comes.

Nothing is “Broken” for me. But what about those who run MacOS. You would think that Daz could spare just a tidbit of time to come in and give some kind of report to MacOS owners. Something. No spot render? That would kill it for me.

I defend Carrara with everything I’ve got. But I was really somewhat disappointed when Carrara 8 beta stopped and became official when it did. They were making improvements. It was getting better. But just not good enough. This contradicts my cheerleading - but dog gone it. 8.1 was still a memory-losing app which is strongly illustrated by 8.5b
No end in sight (at least no mention towards it’s contradiction) of a new manual. For people like me, who really put a lot less emphasis on such things, it’s no big deal. But to a professional minded individual weighing the differences and really checking the forums and doing some homework, this shows an aggressive, and somewhat sudden, lack of professionalism from Daz, and an “I just don’t give a shoot” attitude from them. Such a shame. I try to counter this by digging up what I can and making something where folks can find some info if they need it - and, like always, my time for such things runs short (or out) and so it gets left on yet another back-burner. Well I put a hell of a lot of time into that - and have some major plans for editing and generally improving the flow of it. I’ve even begun a whole series of walkthough videos for it. This all took a long time to do - and yet still… not much more word than nothing.

If Carrara falls because of this, it will be Daz3d’s fault, and I’ll be very angry indeed.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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The Blender-Carrara thing is a good illustration of the problem. Carrara is a mediocre modeling app. Sure, both Carrara and Blender do a lot of the same things, but Blender is just so much better at it. And so is Hex, though it’s less fully featured and at times buggy.

It’s just not good enough to go down a checklist and say “Well sure, Carrara does this, that, and that,” so no need for Poser (or the more magnanimous but equally misguided “no reason not to have both” - that only makes sense if the two programs work well together). The fact is, it’s not about What Can It Do, but What Can It Do Better Than The Other Guys? A lot people prefer Blender for modeling, and a lot people prefer Poser for posing and animating. Rather than putting Carrara through years of Development Hell trying to make it Better At Everything, it would make a lot more sense to just focus on its core functionality and then make it better integrated with the other software people like to use.

I think DAZ’s whole philosophy is misguided. The fact that people are lining up right now to drop $500 on the latest Poser, despite the fact that DAZ Studio has been free for years, says all that needs to be said. You’re not going to out-compete those guys. But the frustrating part, is that there was never any need for competition to begin with. Both DAZ and SmithMicro would be better off if both of your companies found ways to work together rather than against each other, and you’d have less disenfranchised customers getting caught in the crossfire and left behind.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 11:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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It’s not Competition,. between SM and DAZ,.

Poser’s original owners sold it,. which threw Daz (a content developer for “poser” content) into a spin, then, after the dust settled down,. The new owner sold it again,.... Now,. if you’ve built your business on selling “content” for another companies application,. and that application was being sold, and it’s future wasn’t certain,. what would you do,..

Daz decided to Buy some existing 3D software (which could also use all their content),. and develop a simple to use 3D starter program which would have a “Free” version,. and a Full (paid for) version with Pro features.

That strategic move means that Daz content sales are no longer reliant on Poser software, or posers owners.

Daz Studio has always had a free version,. but the “Pro” version with all the tools was initially sold at a Pro price.
it has been made available for “Free”,. but may not always be free,.

There will always be a “Free” basic version, of Daz Studio,. even if / when the Pro version “free offer period” is over.

Many of the people who will buy the new version of Poser are already Poser owners / users, and probably have been for several product versions,. they’re buying it to get the “latest features”,. and that’s the same with most software, not just 3D.

I include myself in those poser owners who will buy the new version, despite the facts that most of what the new version can do, is already available in the current version..

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Posted: 13 May 2013 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Transposer was a great little tool. I think it’s being “dropped” by DAZ was more of an evolutionary thing, as well as PR thing (people had a hard time understanding why the new version(s) of Poser weren’t supported with Tansposer), and a result of having having products that were in competition with Poser. DAZ was stuck using the original Poser sdk code that was used for Transposer2 in C5. In fact, Eovia wasn’t able to broker a deal to use the newer sdk to include support for the next version of Poser with Transposer when they were developing C6. That was when the development for the native support for Poser content in Carrara began.

Once native Poser content support was available in Carrara without the SDK, that made it more of a competitor to Poser, and the fate of Transposer was pretty much a done deal before DAZ bought Carrara from Eovia. Of course once DAZ bought Carrara, I’m sure that eFrontier didn’t want to play nice with DAZ either, since they now owned two programs that could reduce the sales of Poser. Plus, Carrara was a bit of a competitor to their flagship product Shade. Obviously the situation hasn’t changed with SM either.

I find it slightly entertaining that every time a new version of DS or Poser come out, that the speculation of the demise of the other, and Carrara begin. I have to agree, that the new, even more restrictive and obvious say nothing policies at DAZ since new management has taken over is really not helping them a bit. Of course their numerous mis-steps over the past couple of years no doubt has hurt their bottom line and the speed of development of Carrara. I’m frustrated with DAZ, and my patience is beginning to wear a bit thin as well. But if I take a deep breath, stand back and look at things logically, I realize that C is still a great tool, usually fun to use, does what it does well, and I would rather use it over DS and Poser.

I think the real difficulties for us happen when we see things that we would really like to see in Carrara, or things that were a Carrara only feature, and are now available in Poser and/or DS. We begin to question our use of Carrara, and our “loyalty” to it. The thought of having to change to something else when we have invested so much time and effort into really learning Carrara isn’t a pleasant one. Nor is the idea that software like Poser and DS are now catching up to Carrara, and DAZ isn’t doing as much as we think they should to keep Carrara in the leadership position as their flagship product.

Just keep in mind, the only constant in any sort of computer based industry is change. Sometimes that change is something that we eagerly embrace,  other times it’s something that we dread, and it often forces us to make additional investments in hardware and/or software, and/or training and re-learning that if the parent company had handled in a different way, we wouldn’t need to do. We all want Carrara to keep it’s current edge over the rest of the Poserverse, as well as remain a respected app in the rest of the 3D world. Unfortunately the fate of Carrara lies in the hands of DAZ, who are not communicating well with their user base (this includes all their other products and services - not just Carrara), which is actually enhancing the effects of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) with regard to our beloved Carrara.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that Carrara is the same software it was prior to the release of information on the new version of Poser, If it did what you needed a week ago, the new Poser will not change that. But, it’s also good, if you can afford it, to use and become familiar with more than one application, because they all do something the other one doesn’t, so they are great additions to the toolset even if they aren’t your main or favorite one.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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A few people will by the newest Poser and upgrade for reasons that don’t include DAZ being free or one DAZ Studio or one program being better than another.

Offhand these reasons include (some of these have been mentioned by others in other posts):

1.) Poser is sold in stores and some people who buy it after seeing it in a store may never have even have heard of DAZ 3D.

2.) Smith Micro and NewTek had a deal in which they gave Poser Pro 2012 away with purchase of Lghtwave at one time.  Some new Lightwave user who may not have tried using DAZ, but who have learned how to work with Poser because they got it for free will want to upgrade since they are comfortable using the software and don’t want to learn how to use another program that can do similar things.

3.) Poser may be a required program for someone to use in a university or at work.  So again the focus is why bother with a free program that does something similar when I need the one that isn’t free for work.  (In a related example, I have Open Office, but i had to but Microsoft Word and Excel for work,  because according to the various lawyers I’ve worked with,  clients, other lawyers, etc.expects to see a Word file and so do other individuals I may have to send a file to, even though Open Office can do the same thing.  It just looks more professional and gives an appearance that your company isn’t so cheap that they had to use free software.)

4.) SM has a very aggressive marketing campaign and often get professionals who work in the comics filed, etc. to do live web seminars for the public for the programs they make.  SM also gets professionals in those fields to promote their products.  (Example SM has had TokyoPop artist as guest at comic conventions to promote Manga Studio and other software.)
SM’s Blog also helps promote Poser, by showing off various videos, art, etc. that others have made and gives info on current development.

5.) SM has manuals for their programs, which is why some may want to use it over DAZ.

6.) Integration with other SM programs.  A good number will buy Poser or stick with it because the use other SM programs that work with it and are integrated with it.

  (My first 3D Program was Bryce & I had used SM’s Manga Studio EX before for a long time.  I bought Poser Pro 2010 months before I had bothered to download and install DAZ Studio & even had meet people from DAZ at a Comic Con who reminded me DAZ Studio was free.  Why did I wait so long to try DAZ, because Manga Studio had Poser info in the user manual and I learned that other programs I was interested in buying from SM like Anime Studio had Poser stuff in its’ user manual.  I figured it was best to to learn one program that was connected to one I used, even though it wasn’t free and I had learned about the Pros and Cons of it compared to DAZ Studio 3 by talking to DAZ reps. 

Thankfully, I did try DAZ Studio about 2 months after I had gotten Poser and found it easier to work with, and made that my preferred program to use and upgraded it to Advanced and buying every plugin I could over the next year.)

7.)  Poser Fusion allows integration with high end expensive “Professional” programs.

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Posted: 13 May 2013 05:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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Dartanbeck - 13 May 2013 05:08 AM

Carrara definitely stands a chance of loosing me to Poser.

Dartanbeck - 13 May 2013 05:08 AM

If Carrara falls because of this, it will be Daz3d’s fault, and I’ll be very angry indeed.

big surprise {blink} {blink} shock

Truly the end of the world is nigh!

Alright, I trimmed a lot of context away from poor Dart. I know he has not been feeling well lately too - this could be fever delerium. wink

I have made this case too from the pro-Carrara camp. DAZ is doing a massive disservice to its software products with its laughable marketing. It is a sad thing to witness.

Should I be looking at adding Poser to my arsenal?

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