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Best Practice for Exporting Carrara Files to Poser? Poser 2014 equals the Death of Carrara?
Posted: 08 May 2013 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hya

Dyed in the wool Carrara user here, but.
......
I’d like to export some of my hard won files from Carrara to Poser to take advantage of it’s sketch render engine.

I’ve had a go with Collada but it didn’t really work.
Maybe I am pushing the wrong button ???

Any advice on this very welcome.

Materials export not really necessary but would be handy.

I’ve had a go at emulating the sketch results in the non photorealistic renderer in Carrara but no luck.

So any advice on this would be most welcome as well.

AND

Smith Micro announced Poser 10/2014 the other day.

Having watched the intro videos I am gob smacked, but the one thing that the new Poser brings into focus is what Carrara
could have been had Daz developed it as it should have. (shame on you Daz)

Apart from Carrara’s model room it looks to me like Carrara doesn’t really have any advantage over Poser at all.
And Carrara’s model room is easily supplanted by something like hex etc,

The only thing that remains to be seen is the speed of render in Poser.

You probably know all about it but you’ll find the Poser Propaganda videos at the very bottom of this page.

http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser10-poserpro2014/

A sad day for Daz and Carrara and a few [plug in developers  .....

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted: 08 May 2013 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Sorry Headwax. I think that Carrara is alive and kicking.

I think that while it has many cool features, there’s more to Carrara still. Can Poser of any flavor generate terrains? Atmospheres? Volumetric clouds? plants, etc. etc. etc.


If all Carrara had was the vertex modeler, then your statement about Hex might be accurate, but you’re forgetting the Spline Modeler and the Meta-ball modeler. Two modelers that I’ve made extensive use of. Not to mention the above mentioned terrain generator.

The cartoon renderer looks intriguing, but I would almost rather do it in post. The other thing that you need to consider is that demo reels and promotional videos are just that. They won’t show the bugs or the limitations.


I wish Carrara had a dynamic cloth room as Poser does, but for me, it’s not a deal breaker. I would rather have a walk designer.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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ah Yes Evil you are right. I am seeing it from my own perspective.
I do stills only at the moment. I don’t want photoreal.
I am more than comfortable with doing postwork.
In fact it’s very rare for me to see a render that couldn’t be improved by postwork.

Clouds I do in post, atmosphere as well.
That way I can “see” what I am doing.
For me Carrara’s clouds are pretty useless as for me they are hit ‘n miss because I can’t see what I am doing.
Skies? I always (almost) use a pic of real sky that I have doctored up.

Terrains? Good point. But I tend to make my own terrains with the vertex modeller.
Particles? Same as clouds etc because I can’t see what I am doing. I prefer to do it in post if I can.

The spline modeller? I’m assuming a third party modeller would also have a spline modeller.
Metaballs - the interface makes it a no goer for me. (Maybe for particles they are good for ‘globbing’.)

Carrara;s plant generator? Gah. I have three of Howie’s scenes and you’d have to say that Howie is a bit of a king as far
as making plants I reckon. But I need to do more than one render in my lifetime and vertex plants render a zillion times faster (for me).

Mind you if you are talking on the phone to your mum then the Plant generator is fun…

Ah yes, the poser propaganda videos don’t show the bugs.


But tell me, when ever did a software developer ever release software that had bugs .... wink

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Posted: 08 May 2013 06:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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HeadWax

If you haven’t already seen it maybe Digital Carvers Toon Pro plugin for Carrara would give you what you want. -

http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=15 

Check out the gallery - you can get a demo to try out.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I get your points, but regarding the spline and meta-ball modeler, how many additional pieces of software should you have to use? I like the functionality of having them all under one roof so-to-speak.


My main point is that if I had the extra lucre to throw around, I may get Poser, but it would probably be relegated to a plugin status. I’ve had most of the DAZ Studio updates because they have some cool new feature. You know how many time I opened D/S this year alone? Once. I wanted to see if it still worked. wink


I just don’t see it as a Carrara killer. I don’t even see how it could be, as it’s missing a lot of the functionality that I require.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Yeah Wax,

I don’t see this new Poser as a Carrara killer.

I have tried so many versions of Poser going back years.
I have trouble putting clothes on figures and posing them in Poser, so I can’t see Poser beating out Carrara.
Remember Daz IS updating Carrara AND we (many of us) haven’t really fully explored the full power of Carrara.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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just get both!

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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No offense to Headwax intended! A great artist and contributor to the community here, but I hope this thread dies a quick death.


Why? Because we get the same type of hand-wringing threads whenever there’s a new release of software that has feature overlap with Carrara. Usually it’s Daz Studio, but I’ve also observed the same thing with Bryce and DAZ’s other software. Not only D/S, but also C4D, Modo, and Blender. All these threads tend to do is throw doubt in the minds of any potential new users that poke their heads in here, and it’s usually all speculation, rumor and user anxiety.


Just remembe, the pixels are always less jaggy on the other side of the fence! wink That and just because you have Carrara doesn’t mean you can’t have Poser 2014- It will make a great plugin!

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Curse the forum troll for posting her suggestion before my pudgy fingers could type my overly verbose response!

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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LOL…

I read they are using Bullet for hair. This is like the 3rd incarnation of Poser hair…

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Hmmm…. Since most hair is on the head, is that like getting a Bullet to the head? tongue wink

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Posted: 08 May 2013 07:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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0oseven - 08 May 2013 06:58 PM

HeadWax

If you haven’t already seen it maybe Digital Carvers Toon Pro plugin for Carrara would give you what you want. -

http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=15 

Check out the gallery - you can get a demo to try out.

Yes thanks I have that. Very good but not quite what I want. I use it for delineating objects/shaders etc with lines so I can isolate them or exaggerate them in post. Great for collage effects etc - but the toon shader doesn’t do it for me. smile

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Posted: 08 May 2013 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Hya Wendy,

Oh I will get both. I don’t have anything else to spend my money on except alcohol, women, fast cars and putting coins in the plate at C on Sundays. But seriously, yes I will. I would never desert Carrarara. wink

evilproducer - 08 May 2013 07:29 PM

No offense to Headwax intended! A great artist and contributor to the community here, but I hope this thread dies a quick death.


Why? Because we get the same type of hand-wringing threads whenever there’s a new release of software that has feature overlap with Carrara. Usually it’s Daz Studio, but I’ve also observed the same thing with Bryce and DAZ’s other software. Not only D/S, but also C4D, Modo, and Blender. All these threads tend to do is throw doubt in the minds of any potential new users that poke their heads in here, and it’s usually all speculation, rumor and user anxiety.


Just remembe, the pixels are always less jaggy on the other side of the fence! wink That and just because you have Carrara doesn’t mean you can’t have Poser 2014- It will make a great plugin!

Heh, Evil, ah I wouldn’t take offence, what worries me is that Poser 2014 is pretty flashy - you know you can get the little balls to bounce in real time and make skittles fall over and things.

smile

Basically what I am saying is that Poser 2014 could be everything that Carrara should have been.

If Daz was on the ball.


With 2014 I’m still expecting to have to fiddle with the sphere zones etc after conforming new clothing - which is a pita.

To me it’s Poser’s “answer” to genesis but instead of competing with genesis they have gone on a tangent that surprised everyone.

In other words they have targeted a more “professional” market. ( meaning people who want to get
their hands on nuts and bolts)

Which I think is where a lot of Carrara users are at - relative to Daz Studio users .

Tsarist.

Yes I hate poser’s window and controls myself but that means I am not familiar with them (maybe I should read the manual!)
Explore Carrara? Ah yes, I have explored a few corners - just for Renders that is all. I am satisfied that I am reasonably proficient
with some aspects of Carrara - meaning wher I personally want to go.

Daz updating Carrara? Yes that is good.
But it appears from their attitude/past history that it is not their priority.

Poser seems to have Poser as it’s main priority.

I think there-in lies the Pith.
(whatever a pith is)

EDIt PS Evil, I forgot to say I use Poser 2012 as a plugin in for Carrara, most expensive plug in I have wink

 

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Posted: 08 May 2013 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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head wax - 08 May 2013 06:49 PM

I am more than comfortable with doing postwork.
In fact it’s very rare for me to see a render that couldn’t be improved by postwork.

Sweet!
I also know that you own Project Dogwaffle: Howler! Render however looks best for you in Carrara - for sketches, you might try super over saturation with a few lights on the subject - just for kicks. Try a few styles - even using various versions from the Draft settings - Sketch… whatever. The point here is to just try a few different type of renders of the same image, playing with lights some more, once you decide upon the favored render output, etc.,

Now go into Dogwaffle and press “k” for “K’iller plugins. Check out all of the various options there. I’m sure you’ll be able to achieve better sketch results using these sort of combinations. The cool thingtoo… is to turn the hue off on your brush, and crank up the bleed through, so your just smearing what’s there, without adding new strokes - this could be used to shade with your thumb or fingers as you could with a sketch book. If you don’t have one yet, geta decent tablet/stylus. If not, get a cheap one. I have a Wacom Graphire 3, which is no longer made, but was sort of there really affordable, yet decent, popular line back a few years - and it’s still a strange divice to me - but Dogwaffle turns the thing into a complete art room filled with acrylics, oils, watercolor, tempra, all of the different lead values of sketch pencils, foil, copper etching, bamboo weaving stuff… oh and a whole airbrush studio too.

The real trick is learning how to access these incredible possibilities. Unfortunately, as excellent as the online documentation is, Dogwaffle really requires those video tutorials with Philips super friendly and informative demonstration style in order to really pop those functions into a clear understanding of what to do in order to achieve this… sort of thing.

Where many other apps might use layers, dogwaffle just uses another brush. Brushes are Dogwaffle - and Dogwaffle is brushes. When in doubt… use a brush. Yu can use any other software to copy something to your clipboard, go to the Dogwaffle brush menu and chose Clipboard >Paste to new brush. Even a high res full image can be done this way. Now you go and store a copy which will give you a temp file and a popup window that can be assmall or large as you’rcomfy with in your work space.

Oooops… I’m babbling…

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Posted: 08 May 2013 08:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Heh Dart, not blabbing smile

Ah yes, thanks for The K hint.
I’m happily wacomming away for a few years.

After receiving feedback from my
I’ve spent an entire week with a few different programs including dogwaffler trying to get the effect I want.
And you know what?
I got the best effects by changing everything in Carrara (all the shaders) before I did my renders - then tidied them up in post.
Fancy that . smile

But it’s lot of work with my old scenes - usually around 1 - 1.5 gigabytes.
So with new scenes I make them simple so the work load is not so much.
I combine a few different renders (eg high ambient etc with shadows)  in post and make sure I render figures separately so I can treat everything with different levels saturation etc, and also use them as masks for the postwork so I can separate elements with atmosphere and contrast - just as you would when you are painting.

but I really need to be able to take old work and change the “style” without spending an hour or two manipulating the shaders before I render.

thanks for the waffling advice. I posted a few questions on your thread but had no answer that I can see yet.

I had an idea on the way to work today after watching the Poser 2014 videos on cartoon renders which should be doable in Carrara

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Posted: 08 May 2013 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Have you ever tried compositing your renders using Carrara?
Carrara is immensely powerful for that, as it’s acceptable resolutions are, what… limitless?
Render to the final resolution for everthing you render. I’m lucky this way because I always render at 1280 x 720 for my videos.

But the final resolution needs to be the size of the primary backdrop. Then use that as your scene backdrop, before or after any post work. I know you do stills, but you can actually use Dogwaffle to turn a still into an animation, and Carrara lets you use it in nearly anything.

So now you build your next layer. If it’s already a render, you can make that the shader of a plane - now you have all the power of the shader channels to manipulate the look of that layer. Lights and shader channels, along with fog, clouds, fire, ocean, light cones, lens flares, auras… Jam that render off and load that into the backdrop and rinse and repeat.

Carrara is a very powerful compositing tool. Add Dogwaffle and you begin to run out of limits. wink

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