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Carrara v8.5.0.149 (PC/Mac) Beta Update
Posted: 10 July 2012 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 10 July 2012 06:49 PM
Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM

The “myth” I was talking about was that the “specialists” don’t use canned content.  There is a perception, enhanced and spread by certain elements, that “professionals” create their own models.  This has never really been true.


And here’s why you’re getting an argument, at least from me. That is a blanket, over generalization, which factually incorrect as a blanket, over generalization. Professionals *DO* create their own models. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact that not *ALL* professionals create their own models in every situation. That’s insanely obvious, and no secret. Some have models handed to them from manufacturers, some use free and/or inexpensive premade stuff that doesn’t have an licensing issues, some build their own. IT DEPENDS on the situation, the project, the schedule, the budget, and a million other things.


Of course it was a generalization to rebut a generalization.  And, yes, some professionals do create their own models, especially in non-realistic environs, or in environs where no library of content exists.  Any employer who pays a “professional”  professional level wages to recreate a model that can be purchased for 1/10 of the cost of the man-hours to create the model has US Gov’t level spending issues.

JoeMamma2000 - 10 July 2012 06:49 PM
Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM

I’m under NDA’s so I can’t elaborate too much…


Ooo, do you have a secret decoder ring too?  smile


NDA’s make no difference. It’s no secret that people use other people’s work in some professional situations. It’s only a secret if they’re doing something they shouldn’t (eg, licensing), or some other reason that might be slightly nefarious.


Now you’re showing ignorance.  NDA’s exist more to protect business practices moreso than “nefarious” activities.  Most companies don’t want their methodologies to be known by their competitors.  I only mention the NDA to explain why I had to be vague about details, otherwise, some here will attribute “other” reasons.


And no I don’t have a secret decoder ring, but I DO have contract codes that I have to use to validate my access to certain information.  And for some clients, magneticly encoded access cards.  Nefarious enough for you?


Kendall

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Posted: 10 July 2012 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 07:19 PM

Now you’re showing ignorance.  NDA’s exist more to protect business practices moreso than “nefarious” activities.  Most companies don’t want their methodologies to be known by their competitors.

So that’s what they are… I never really knew what all those initials and stuff meant. I kinda thought it meant, like, don’t say “nada”, or “Never Divulge Anything”.  Cool, thanks for the info.  smile


Actually I’ve had to fire people twice in my career for doing stupid stuff and breaking their NDA’s. And I’ve also worked with legal guys to draft (actually revise) NDA’s. So yeah, I know a little bit about them.


My point was that you don’t need to break your NDA by explaining the generic reasons why some people might choose to use other people’s models. It’s no secret, and fairly obvious. 

 

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Posted: 11 July 2012 02:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Thinking along the lines of the professional demand, or lack thereof for Genesis.  Now I’ve never been in a studio and have no idea how they go about things, but have seen their work in adverts and feature films, on TV and the movies.  Something which strikes me is that, never in animated adverts and very seldom in feature films do we see any attempt made to portray “real” humans or animals with “real” motion.  They are invariably cartoon style, and pretty much proprietary.

See a lot of “real” CG humans in stills in print media - usually in crowd scenes in visualisations.

So, is it only us amateurs who strive for reality with realistic humans and animals, or are the pro’s so good that they can pull it off without it being spotted?

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Posted: 11 July 2012 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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Millions of years of evolution has caused us to notice the tiniest facial ticks.  We are programmed to search out the face of our mother in the first few seconds after birth.  We see faces everywhere and study them.  Babies love to sit and look at faces for long periods of time. 

CG People just don’t look real in close up shots.  They creep us out at a subconcious level.  We might not know why something looks wrong - we just know it.  I don’t think it has so much to do with the textures and materials in different levels of light we can’t even see sub surface scattering on skin.  I think it is mostly tiny muscle movements that are missing.  Hairs on the face that fail to bristle, nostril twitches, different breathing patterns while speaking. blinking, biting the inside of our lips, swallowing - a real person might make hundreds of motions in just a few seconds. 

We have no problem with an animated character not looking real we accept their universe, but something that is pretending to be like us, but is not falls into that uncanny valley which tends to disgust people - so real and so NOT real.  Our subconsious says that creature pretending to be human is NOT breathing. 

Stills CAN fool us, medium length shots, especially motion captured (and blured) action shots can fool us if done well and quickly.  This happens quite often with head replacement on stuntmen.  It’s hard to spot.  but it doesn’t even require CG.  It can be done by a talented compositor.

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Posted: 11 July 2012 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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@Kendall Sears and Joemamma2000

The funny thing about all these discussions are -  I started them by complaining about people slamming on Carrara, I didn’t really have any agenda about “profesionall artists”.

We are each describing parts of an elephant.  I’m talking about the trunk, your talking about the foot and the tusk… 

The world of professional CG contains a lot of different levels.  People do what it takes to get the job done as quickly and as cheaply as possible. 

Sometimes cheap means spending 500 dollars for a model instead of 10.  Especially if your artist cost 2500 dollars a day and you don’t want to “try” something out…

And sometimes cheap means spending 10 dollars and working for 25 hours to get that something to work.

Some artists are actually quite paranoid about how they get their job done.  And with good reasonl.

Kendall you mentioned the video toaster.  When the video toaster came out I think it cost aroun 1500 dollars.  No one “professional” would buy it - I mean TV companies.  They didn’t believe something so cheap could actually work.  In the end the video toaster built their own amiga shell (without the name Amiga) and packaged it together and sold them for around 10,000 dollars (I may be wrong on the exact dollar amount).  They sold them like crazy to news channels all over the country. 

There are reasons to not let producers know how you do your job.  Not to trick them, but they can be completely CG stupid!

I had a producer (from production side)  actually ask my inferno artist if he could pan the camera around behind the actor.  The problem was we were viewing their FILM footage.  That producer honestly did not understand that a compositor (2d)  looking at their film (shot in a camera) could not move the camera angle.  It’s all magic to them!

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Posted: 11 July 2012 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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Roygee - 11 July 2012 02:12 AM

Thinking along the lines of the professional demand, or lack thereof for Genesis.  Now I’ve never been in a studio and have no idea how they go about things, but have seen their work in adverts and feature films, on TV and the movies.  Something which strikes me is that, never in animated adverts and very seldom in feature films do we see any attempt made to portray “real” humans or animals with “real” motion.  They are invariably cartoon style, and pretty much proprietary.

See a lot of “real” CG humans in stills in print media - usually in crowd scenes in visualisations.

So, is it only us amateurs who strive for reality with realistic humans and animals, or are the pro’s so good that they can pull it off without it being spotted?


One thing to never forget about feature films is “Merchandising!” in the famous words of Yogurt.  Product recognition is a large part of sales, especially for impulse buys by, and for children.  Making a character “instantly” recognizable, even from a distance—or some would say, especially from a distance—is an extremely valuable asset.


Children have a hard time discerning faces quickly, even so far as to mistake strangers for their mother in public.  So to make a character uber-realistic would be counter productive for collateral sales—especially where children are concerned.


Kendall

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Posted: 11 July 2012 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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namrettek - 11 July 2012 11:34 AM

  ... snip…

Kendall you mentioned the video toaster.  When the video toaster came out I think it cost aroun 1500 dollars.  No one “professional” would buy it - I mean TV companies.  They didn’t believe something so cheap could actually work.  In the end the video toaster built their own amiga shell (without the name Amiga) and packaged it together and sold them for around 10,000 dollars (I may be wrong on the exact dollar amount).  They sold them like crazy to news channels all over the country. 


Yes, indeedily doodily.  The original Toaster was right at $2000 MSRP, if I remember correctly, but sold for the $1500-$1700 range in most shops.  It wasn’t so much the price that held back sales, as much as the fear of computer graphics in general.  Initially NewTek wanted all of us to sell the Toaster for “Grand Ideas” but the Industry CG as the time was pathetic, so everyone dropped back to selling the toaster as a Really Cool Genlock! for Weather Broadcasts and such.  Local news organizations really snatched up the Toaster for video overlays, especially the built in “Over The Shoulder” preset.  Dana Carvey’s support of the Toaster helped greatly.  As did the relative success of the effects for seaQuest and Babylon5.


If I remember correctly, the “bundled” Toaster systems sold in the $5K range, not $10K.  This was more for making sure that working systems were shipped than for pricing measures.  With the Toaster’s success, a lot of PC shops tried to jump into selling Amiga/Toasters and they had NO clue what they were doing.  I was helping to operate a C= repair shop in Louisville at the time, and we got oodles of fried Amigas from PC shops trying to install MFM harddrives into the Amigas.

(EDIT:  Just verified via Wikipedia that the Toaster bundle was $5K.  Maybe age hasn’t affected my memory as badly as I thought grin )

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Posted: 11 July 2012 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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I actually worked in high school and college as a commadore repair tech in the early to mid 90’s (not for
Commodore itself of course but a computer repair shop in NM).  We made so much money and so many happy customers.

I fixed mostly c64, 128, and occasionally an amiga (they rarely broke) and when you consider that most of the c64’s I fixed were built in the mid 80’s they were pretty well made too.

What does this have to do with carrara?  I guess not much.  Except that I bet a lot of people that use Carrara probably had or used an Amiga…  ( I had four at one time or another). 

 

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Posted: 11 July 2012 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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Actually I do have a carrara issue.  Does unshaven not work in Carrara?

I just tried it out and it just has a sort of outline of the beard and nothing in the render.

It only says Daz studio in the product info, but I was hoping with the whole genesis thing it would work in Carrara…

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Posted: 11 July 2012 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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is a new beta dropping in the next few days or is there going to be an extension to the serial code? Seeing as it will run out in 3 days smile

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Posted: 11 July 2012 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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namrettek - 11 July 2012 12:19 PM

Actually I do have a carrara issue.  Does unshaven not work in Carrara?

I just tried it out and it just has a sort of outline of the beard and nothing in the render.

It only says Daz studio in the product info, but I was hoping with the whole genesis thing it would work in Carrara…

That may be a shader issue, you may want to check that (look at the alpha).

Personally I think that’s a redundant product for Carrara, dynamic hair can do much the same job. There may even be a dynamic beard product already.

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Posted: 12 July 2012 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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RoguePilot - 11 July 2012 03:38 PM
namrettek - 11 July 2012 12:19 PM

Actually I do have a carrara issue.  Does unshaven not work in Carrara?

I just tried it out and it just has a sort of outline of the beard and nothing in the render.

It only says Daz studio in the product info, but I was hoping with the whole genesis thing it would work in Carrara…

That may be a shader issue, you may want to check that (look at the alpha).

Personally I think that’s a redundant product for Carrara, dynamic hair can do much the same job. There may even be a dynamic beard product already.

There was no alpha in the shader. 

There is a dynamic beard product for Carrara and it is really good - better than unshaven actually.  It would be nice however to have characters that have the same beard instead of having to try to match the same look with different products. 

Ideally everything could be done in one package.  Unfortunately some packages are just so much better with certain things.

I put the question here because I don’t know if this is a beta issue, or just a non compatibale issue…

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Posted: 13 July 2012 04:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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CoolArtDude - 11 July 2012 03:20 PM

is a new beta dropping in the next few days or is there going to be an extension to the serial code? Seeing as it will run out in 3 days smile

I’m wondering the same. Working to a deadline of tomorrow and the code stops at midnight!

Fantastic upgrade BTW. So far v. stable on OSX Lion.

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Posted: 14 July 2012 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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ok where is my new serial!!
will have to run it in trial I guess

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Posted: 14 July 2012 02:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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