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Carrara v8.5.0.149 (PC/Mac) Beta Update
Posted: 09 July 2012 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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There is nothing mythical in what I said. I worked as a producer in a post production company in LA from 1999 - 2004.  The company I worked for did commercials and film (though I almost exclusively worked on commercials).  I am not talking about local commercials - I’m talking about superbowl ads and cutting edge 3d work.  I am sure in the last few years there have been some technical issues that have simplified things for many shots - but to be cutting edge you have to be pushing the envelope.  That always requires specialists.

I NEVER said they modeled everything from scratch - in FACT almost NOTHING was modeled from scratch - hence the CAD model from the car manufacturer example.  Every car commercial we did we used the CAD model.  They stripped it and did some touch up modeling and of course all the rigging.  There are databases of models to shop and we had subscriptions to all of those models.  Every single project used most models from prexisting models - that were than touched up for the particular project.  Those models came from many different sources.  Databases, old projects, purchased models from other post production houses.

My whole point was the part about rigging and getting models to work in professional end set ups is difficult is not true.

Content is useful for professionals.  But the technical challenges presented to the hobbyist (Me) is different than those that occur to the real pro houses.  For example we had three full time computer techs that did nothing but updates for software and communicating with Aliaswavefront to get bugs worked out.  They wrote code to fix compatability issues - sometimes for free (if they would use it in general) or at a cost if it was only for us.

 

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Posted: 09 July 2012 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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I just should add one more point -  When I wrote “they do not need daz models”  I mean there are all ready premade models of high quality available (and have been available for over a decade). 

I know that sometimes they even used poser models in some film shots (where I worked), so I am not trying to say that “genesis” would not be used by a film studio or commercial house.  They probably have been and will be.  But the issues of getting a model into another program might be solved by a tech or a p.a. 

They might use them.  And I bet they do for storyboards and for pre-vis.  When I moved from LA I had never scene a pre-vis or storyboard that use poser (that doesn’t mean no one used them).

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Posted: 09 July 2012 10:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Anyone care to guess (actual facts would be better!) if we are going to get an updated 8.5 on the 14th, or just an extension? 

Some additional Genesis fixes would be nice. Just bought a bunch of Genesis stuff that was on sale - but can only get a few to work right.

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Posted: 09 July 2012 11:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Wow.


You guys are talking about two completely different markets, and saying that the entire world is that way. It’s not.


To say that what Namrettek described is a myth is just nonsense - for the market he’s describing. And of course, on the other hand, in the lower end markets, guys who do commercials for Bob’s House of Used Toyotas on a local cable channel at 3am have completely different needs, budgets, schedules, etc. So they grab what they can get that meets their needs.


Anyway, how did we get into this discussion anyway? Last I saw we were talking about 8.5, and someone was talking about the future of Carrara and why DAZ seems to be steering full steam towards solely content. Nothing about that has to do with professional vs. hobbiest, and who models from scratch.


Anyway, OF COURSE, when you’re doing a feature film and have characters that are going to be speaking and acting throughout a two hour film, you model and rig from scratch, using some extremely complicated and detailed modelling. You need to show slight inflections as they speak, to show emotions, etc. You wouldn’t dream of using V4 for that. So you do something like what Namrettek suggested, and get some guys slaving away at modelling, who then hand it off to some riggers. And to say that’s a myth promulgated to increase the “wow-ness” or whatever is just absurd. I realize most of you guys don’t have much professional background, but geez, at least try to check your facts a little before posting. 

 

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Posted: 10 July 2012 12:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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eyeofSolomon for example does car sales, waste collection etc commercials etc using Carrara
http://www.youtube.com/user/eyeofsolomon/videos
so people certainly do use it for proffessional use.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 01:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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Lol!
You’re right, that discussion shot way off base…
I addressed it because it sounded like namrettek was saying that Carrara is old technology and the pros don’t use DAZ content, so what’s the point if it makes it past 8.5 or not.
And to me, DAZ content is FABULOUS for hobbyists, and Carrara is an excellent (only??) tool to use this content in.
Maybe I misunderstood the point.
I’m not really sure what the point was, then, TBH…. :-\ 

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Posted: 10 July 2012 03:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Didn’t mean to get off topic.  Of course there are different levels of working professionally with 3d.

But Daz content is not aimed at professionals.  I don’t think there is any disputing that.
That doesn’t mean you can’t use it for professional projects.
But I do think it is unrealistic to expect Genesis to become the next big thing in the world of CGI.

Or Carrara for that matter.

At least not any time soon…

I just thought that the complaints against Daz and Carrara are not very realistic.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 05:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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namrettek - 10 July 2012 03:02 AM


But I do think it is unrealistic to expect Genesis to become the next big thing in the world of CGI.

Or Carrara for that matter.

At least not any time soon…

I just thought that the complaints against Daz and Carrara are not very realistic.


Again, I think you’re focusing on the wrong market…


There is a HUGE market, comprised of approximately 1.46 GAZILLION hobbyists (and semi-pro/low end professional users) that, at least in numbers, is far larger than any professional market. At least I believe it’s pretty clear that there are more hobbyists than pros, though hobbyists tend to come and go rather quickly, while pros hang around for a while….


Add up all the Poser users, and Blender users, and DAZ users, and any other inexpensive/free CG software users, and I’m sure the numbers are huge. Those are the people for whom the content market is targeted. That is why stuff like Genesis is, at least in numbers, such a huge market, and why it certainly is arguably the next big thing in the world of CGI. Not the high end professional world, but the larger hobbyist world. The high end professional world couldn’t give a damn about it.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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I think you misunderstood me.

I am a hobby 3d artist.  I spend tons on content.  I am not disagreeing with you.

My initial response was referring to people who keep complaining about Carrara.  People who say they are tired of Carrara and are going to buy Maya.

Then someone wrote that I was spreading a myth about specialists.  That is where I got of topic and started talking about professional studios.


I believe there is a huge market for Carrara.  I use it all the time.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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hey you guys,,,,i think the mane point is that if your a hobbist and you just like doing this sort of stuff,,,,then stay with daz and carrara,,cause yu wont make it any further than right here. if your a pfoffessional then its a dead horse for you to use unless you just want to play around,,i was with daz and carrara for 5-6 years and had taken a year off with some surgery and couldnt get carrara to consistently act right or do any thing that i could actually post up to be sold,,,really sad,,,i didnt faile this product ,,this product failed its user.
haveing said that,,,i still use it and love playing around with it,,i do wish it was more dependable,,i would us it more,,cause i am moveing into other programs and i dont think i will actually purchase 8.5 this time when ever they get it out. i really hate to say that carrara was my first thrall with 3d,,,but after i tryed to get some thing together to actually sell…wellll…what do you think?

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Posted: 10 July 2012 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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namrettek - 10 July 2012 06:25 AM

I think you misunderstood me.

I am a hobby 3d artist.  I spend tons on content.  I am not disagreeing with you.

My initial response was referring to people who keep complaining about Carrara.  People who say they are tired of Carrara and are going to buy Maya.

Then someone wrote that I was spreading a myth about specialists.  That is where I got of topic and started talking about professional studios.


I believe there is a huge market for Carrara.  I use it all the time.


The “myth” I was talking about was that the “specialists” don’t use canned content.  There is a perception, enhanced and spread by certain elements, that “professionals” create their own models.  This has never really been true.  Even as far back as the release of the Video Toaster on the Amiga there was canned content and this content was used in “professional situations.”


I’m under NDA’s so I can’t elaborate too much, but lots of places use significantly more “off the shelf” content than they want known.  This is especially true where “real world” environments are in use.  One might be surprised at how much “scene filler” is added to scenes in recent years.  If one looks hard enough at content created in “HD”, one who is accustomed to working in CG will easily see these “props.”  Many places have started using green/blue screens instead of sets and digitally adding the environments later.


I’m going to stop here before I get into trouble.  It is not beyond the pail that DAZ brokered content would be used in these situations.  Don’t discount the possibility of more use in the near future.


Kendall

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Posted: 10 July 2012 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM
namrettek - 10 July 2012 06:25 AM

I think you misunderstood me.

I am a hobby 3d artist.  I spend tons on content.  I am not disagreeing with you.

My initial response was referring to people who keep complaining about Carrara.  People who say they are tired of Carrara and are going to buy Maya.

Then someone wrote that I was spreading a myth about specialists.  That is where I got of topic and started talking about professional studios.


I believe there is a huge market for Carrara.  I use it all the time.


The “myth” I was talking about was that the “specialists” don’t use canned content…


Kendall

I think then there was just a misunderstanding -

I said -  big studios use purchased content, and have for over a decade.


I did say they would not need Daz content. 
I may be wrong about that.
The truth is I have no idea how many big studios currently use Daz content in final scenes.

But I love using Daz content and Carrara.  I want carrara 8.5 and I want Carrara 9.

I will not be making any money any time soon with my 3d, but I do have a lot of fun with it, and I do not have 3500 dollars for Maya or years to learn it.

 

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Posted: 10 July 2012 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM


Even as far back as the release of the Video Toaster on the Amiga there was canned content and this content was used in “professional situations.”

Kendall

MMM toast.

Imagine on the Amiga was the first 3d program I ever used.  It took hours to render a ball.  I quickly lost interest…

I also had Vista pro.

Couldn’t afford a toaster, though I had a friend that had one.  It was really cool.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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namrettek - 10 July 2012 03:55 PM
Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM


Even as far back as the release of the Video Toaster on the Amiga there was canned content and this content was used in “professional situations.”

Kendall

MMM toast.

Imagine on the Amiga was the first 3d program I ever used.  It took hours to render a ball.  I quickly lost interest…

I also had Vista pro.

Couldn’t afford a toaster, though I had a friend that had one.  It was really cool.

I had an early model Toaster, jumper wires all over the PCB.  Pre-transporter effect software.  They shipped us the Toaster before Lightwave was ready.  Lots of Genlocking going on around that time as well.  Just imagine rendering at 7MHz on a moto 68000 with 512K of memory in HAM mode.  Yup, did that, and got paid for the results too.

Funny thing was… 7Mhz was blazing fast at the time grin  Then we got our beta Amiga-2500UX from CATS.  Sys5 Unix and a 14Mhz m68020, but we had to send it back after testing :-(  I was on several teams writing early 3D software for the Amiga back then.  I wrote a beta of a GUI 3D wireframe modeller for the C=128 in Z80 CP/M mode… too bad the C=128 died (edit: market, not machine) before we could get in through C= testing.  Still have the (working) C=128 boxed around here.


Kendall

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Posted: 10 July 2012 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM

The “myth” I was talking about was that the “specialists” don’t use canned content.  There is a perception, enhanced and spread by certain elements, that “professionals” create their own models.  This has never really been true.


And here’s why you’re getting an argument, at least from me. That is a blanket, over generalization, which factually incorrect as a blanket, over generalization. Professionals *DO* create their own models. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact that not *ALL* professionals create their own models in every situation. That’s insanely obvious, and no secret. Some have models handed to them from manufacturers, some use free and/or inexpensive premade stuff that doesn’t have an licensing issues, some build their own. IT DEPENDS on the situation, the project, the schedule, the budget, and a million other things.

Kendall Sears - 10 July 2012 02:36 PM

I’m under NDA’s so I can’t elaborate too much…


Ooo, do you have a secret decoder ring too?  smile


NDA’s make no difference. It’s no secret that people use other people’s work in some professional situations. It’s only a secret if they’re doing something they shouldn’t (eg, licensing), or some other reason that might be slightly nefarious. But there are tons of above board, professional situations where people use others’ work. No secret whatsoever. And it’s not a bad thing, people use what they need to use to get the job done. Just like people use 3D software to generate the images. They didn’t write every line of code of that software, did they? No, and the software does 90% of the work of generating the image. So unless they, pixel by pixel, generated the image by hand, they used a LOT of other people’s work to make it.


But if some goofy modeller out there is trying to convince everyone how great he is at modelling when in fact he used some DAZ content, I can assure you he’s not “the industry”. 

 

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