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Carrara v8.5.0.149 (PC/Mac) Beta Update
Posted: 22 July 2012 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 211 ]
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Kendall,

sorry, should have refreshed before posting…...like 2 trains in the night.  smile

With .duf, one could say that now Carrara will have access to Renderman (and Lux) via a DS4 plugin .

Are you referring to R4C?  I mean, is that what R4C would have provided?

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Posted: 22 July 2012 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 212 ]
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megacal - 22 July 2012 11:15 AM

Kendall,

sorry, should have refreshed before posting…...like 2 trains in the night.  smile

With .duf, one could say that now Carrara will have access to Renderman (and Lux) via a DS4 plugin .

Are you referring to R4C?  I mean, is that what R4C would have provided?


Paolo has made it abundantly clear that R4C will not happen.  I doubt that the initial plans for R4C included DS4 at all.


What I’m talking about is saving a Carrara scene to .duf.  Loading that scene into DS4.5+ and sending what survives to 3DL, or Reality, or Octane, or whatever else DS4 gets access to that Carrara doesn’t.  Hopefully, DS4 will become more capable of loading Carrara specific settings/features, even if it can’t manipulate the content.


Kendall

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Posted: 22 July 2012 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 213 ]
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Personally, I love the Carrara rendering capabilities - mainly the refreshing speed that it has over everything else that I’ve tried - especially when it comes to ray tracing.

Anyways, I just wanted to report a cool find in this new build. To help illustrate, I have a specific “Light Enhancement” (very subtle) light rig grouped in with each of the main characters I’m working with. Previously, when I would bring these characters into a complex scene (or not so complex, for that matter), I’d have to go back and set what the light effects again, like “Only: > ‘V4 Character 1’”, for example. I just made a fairly complex scene, dragged in three of my main characters, and the allocation was still correct! Nice!

On the other point though (I admittedly only caught the last few posts - so I’m not certain where it started), I have messed around with Poser for a couple or more years before buying Carrara. Along that ride, I found that D|S was holding its own in the render quality department - like you’ve mentioned, with enough fiddling with the settings. Once I’ve started rendering in Carrara, I was shocked at the difference in speed - and the power that one has over the quality is excellent. The power of the shader room in conjunction with the amazingly fast raytracer is perfect for the animations I’m working on.
Just my two cents.

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Dartanbeck @ Daz3d          Check out the Carrara Cafe          ►►►  Carrara Information Manual   ◄◄◄

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Posted: 22 July 2012 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 214 ]
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Paolo has made it abundantly clear that R4C will not happen.


Not under the terms DAZ offered. I believe he would do it even now if they made him
an offer that would re-imburse him for his time and effort.


He didn’t burn his bridges as far as I know, or close that door forever regardless.


And, based on the survey, it had wide support from Carrara users who were lining up
to purchase the plugin.


My point is, we could have and should have had a realistic render plugin or integrated capability
already instead of needing DS4 or one of the stand-alones, e.g. Lux.

 

 

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Posted: 22 July 2012 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 215 ]
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Kendall Sears - 22 July 2012 10:58 AM

Please read the RiSpec wiki reference I gave.  There are methods given that allow for different “brands” to specialize


Fine, but CLEARLY the intent of your challenge to akulla3D was to say “how dare you say that the D|S renderer doesn’t give great results since it is a Renderman”. Which means that Renderman = Great renders from your perspective, regardless of application.


Honestly, I have no clue what all of those specs are you’re referencing, and none of that matters. IF you believe what I just summarized, then you must have a simple string of logic that makes you believe that. Just tell us what that is. Something like “yes, all Renderman renderers produce great results for a given scene regardless of app, because…”. Very simple.


Or, if you overstated your case, then just tell us, “yeah, I probably overstated it”. Simple. But throwing a bunch of specs at us and saying read it for yourself is tantamount to blowing us off because you don’t want to admit you overstated. At least that’s how it appears. 


If you want to drop the discussion, I’ll understand.

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Posted: 22 July 2012 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 216 ]
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megacal - 22 July 2012 02:58 PM

Paolo has made it abundantly clear that R4C will not happen.


Not under the terms DAZ offered. I believe he would do it even now if they made him
an offer that would re-imburse him for his time and effort.


He didn’t burn his bridges as far as I know, or close that door forever regardless.


And, based on the survey, it had wide support from Carrara users who were lining up
to purchase the plugin.


My point is, we could have and should have had a realistic render plugin or integrated capability
already instead of needing DS4 or one of the stand-alones, e.g. Lux.

Wait a minute, I don’t see how Paolo’s decision is
dependent on Daz giving him a higher percentage
of the “cut” from sales in the DAZ store.  That’s not
how I recall it went down.

He decided that Carrara’s future is too uncertain
because DAZ is now giving away all the other
softwares for free.  It makes no sense to me.

I got the impression, from his new bio at Renderosity,
that now sales are doing so well that he can even
support himself with it.

And how did all those new customers come about? 
Could Daz Studio being given away for free have
something to do with it?

Paolo could have decided to simply host the plugin
on his own web site, and reap 100% of the cut from
there.  There certainly was plenty of interest
shown by potential buyers.

So let’s see, there exists many interested potential
buyers, and a means by which he could not even
*not* have to share any percentage of profits with
anyone else - his own web site. 

The daz version of the plugin even already had a lot
of   “marketing exposure.” 

It’s all totally lame, imo.  Mind you, I’m glad to at least
have it for Daz Studio,  but I think the reason for not
making it for carrara was lame.  And here I was sitting
around thinking, for almost a year, that he was making
the darned plugin.

 

 

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Posted: 22 July 2012 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 217 ]
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I meant “even not,” not “not even not.”

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Posted: 22 July 2012 11:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 218 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 22 July 2012 03:23 PM
Kendall Sears - 22 July 2012 10:58 AM

Please read the RiSpec wiki reference I gave.  There are methods given that allow for different “brands” to specialize


Fine, but CLEARLY the intent of your challenge to akulla3D was to say “how dare you say that the D|S renderer doesn’t give great results since it is a Renderman”. Which means that Renderman = Great renders from your perspective, regardless of application.


Honestly, I have no clue what all of those specs are you’re referencing, and none of that matters. IF you believe what I just summarized, then you must have a simple string of logic that makes you believe that. Just tell us what that is. Something like “yes, all Renderman renderers produce great results for a given scene regardless of app, because…”. Very simple.


Or, if you overstated your case, then just tell us, “yeah, I probably overstated it”. Simple. But throwing a bunch of specs at us and saying read it for yourself is tantamount to blowing us off because you don’t want to admit you overstated. At least that’s how it appears. 


If you want to drop the discussion, I’ll understand.


No, I said that DS’s render engine wasn’t “sucky”—his word.  Renderman is currently the most accepted, powerful, and flexible rendering engine in use.  3Delight rates at the TOP of the Renderman stack, vying with PrRenderman for #1 and #2 spots.  So, by definition, it doesn’t “suck.”


And yes, ANY program can get great results from Renderman, including a Text Editor.  I challenge you to find a more difficult interface for 3D work.  The output from a CLI can be just as good as anything from DS, Maya, or Pixar.  Conversely, any idiot can screw up anything even given the best equipment and interface.


Under RiSpec, every interface has the same capabilities as every other.  The difference is effort.  Your lack of motivation does not degrade that fact.  ANYONE can get Pixar quality output since they are using the same technology.  The difference between a mediocre work and a great work is effort, regardless of the tool.


I did not overstate anything, if you are not willing to do enough basic research to come up to speed, then I’m finished dealing with you.  I provided information written for those not versed in the field— information written for the layman.  If you can’t, or won’t, understand it, then we have no base from which to debate.  If I wanted to blow you off I would have told you to go spend the money the rest of us did to get the real documentation to do the job.


Obviously, you have no intent to debate seriously as you continue to throw out suppositions without even the veneer of knowledge.  Educate yourself, then we can talk.


Kendall

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Posted: 23 July 2012 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 219 ]
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I don’t see how Paolo’s decision is
dependent on Daz giving him a higher percentage
of the “cut” from sales in the DAZ store.


Yeah, it was the main reason, but the giveaway promo was the
“handwriting on the wall”......it made him less confident in Carrara’s
future.


We spent a long year hoping things were getting done, only to find the
project was on hold. I’m sure Paolo didn’t want to disappoint the troops,
but I don’t blame him for canning it (for now).


Who would want to spend that much time coding without a guaranteed income?

 

Paolo could have decided to simply host the plugin
on his own web site, and reap 100% of the cut from
there.  There certainly was plenty of interest
shown by potential buyers.

Right, but he had to take the time to code it first…..once it was done, he
could profit regardless of where it sold.

(edited to add)...He could & would have done it if he was able to profit more from current sales,
instead of taking the risk to get paid just from future sales of R4C.

Since it would enhance Carrara’s marketability, I thought it was a slam/dunk
that DAZ would give him a break, especially with the success of Reality DS.


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Posted: 23 July 2012 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 220 ]
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megacal - 23 July 2012 07:07 AM

I don’t see how Paolo’s decision is
dependent on Daz giving him a higher percentage
of the “cut” from sales in the DAZ store.


Yeah, it was the main reason, but the giveaway promo was the
“handwriting on the wall”......it made him less confident in Carrara’s
future.


We spent a long year hoping things were getting done, only to find the
project was on hold. I’m sure Paolo didn’t want to disappoint the troops,
but I don’t blame him for canning it (for now).


Who would want to spend that much time coding without a guaranteed income?

Yeah, but anyone who is in business for himself does
not have a guaranteed income!  The only way to have
a “guaranteed” income is to get a job.

I don’t know how it could get any better than to have
the survey results of all the people who were interested
in buying it.

 

 

(edited to add)...He could & would have done it if he was able to profit more from current sales,
instead of taking the risk to get paid just from future sales of R4C.

yeah, well, apparently he is profiting more from current sales now:

His bio on renderosity seems to be gone now, but he said something
about how glad he is to finally able to support himself totally on sales
of his plugin.

My estimation of things is that he’s probably making more sales because
Daz studio is now free, and people want to render in luxrender.

Since it would enhance Carrara’s marketability, I thought it was a slam/dunk
that DAZ would give him a break, especially with the success of Reality DS.

I thought it was a slam dunk too. (Lame).

I wish I was able to code myself.  Programming makes
me want to tear my hair out.

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Posted: 23 July 2012 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 221 ]
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he said something about how glad he is to finally able to support himself totally on sales
of his plugin.

Bravo Paolo! cheese

Coders are magicians to me. smile

 

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Posted: 23 July 2012 01:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 222 ]
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Personally, I love the Carrara rendering capabilities

Dartanbeck,
I agree…..Carrara does a great job as far as it goes…..it’s fast and has
a lot of options…...it’s adequate for most of what I want to do. 


But it’s subjective, and I’d like to see more realistic renders and physics abilities.


Kendall,

Each type of renderer has its own strengths and weaknesses, and if one is smart s/he will utilize the strengths of all available tools.  Even straight raytracers like POV have their uses .

  What limits Carrara? Why can’t it render as well as, e.g. 3Delight or Lux?

Don’t they all use algorithms and simulate bouncing photons?

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Posted: 23 July 2012 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 223 ]
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Kendall Sears - 22 July 2012 11:37 PM

  ANYONE can get Pixar quality output since they are using the same technology.


Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.

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Posted: 23 July 2012 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 224 ]
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By the way, Kendall, I apologize if something I said got you so angry. That wasn’t my intent. I really am trying to learn here, not debate or argue. Just looking for some answers.


Honestly, the sense I got from your statements was nothing more than this:

That an expert 3D guy who does feature films and makes insanely gorgeous renders in one of the professional “Renderman” apps could take one of his insanely gorgeous scenes over to DAZ Studio (assume export/import is not an issue), and using the exact same scene, and exact same tools provided in DAZ Studio (lights, shadows, materials, etc.), produce a virtually identical, insanely gorgeous render. Implying that nothing in the DAZ Studio toolbox is limited or hampered compared to his other apps.


A very simple question, has nothing to do with the skill of the user, and doesn’t require reading stacks of specs.


Here’s a hypothetical to illustrate my question::


IF, for example, DAZ Studio has a Renderman renderer, but, for example, the lights don’t have any capability for generating soft shadows (again, this is a hypothetical), and the spec doesn’t require soft shadows, but the scene you’re rendering needs soft shadows, then the insanely gorgeous scene obviously will have a render that is going to look sucky. Nothing to do with the Renderman renderer, but because the main app doesn’t have some feature not covered by the Renderman spec. If something like that were the case, then it’s perfectly legitimate to say the DAZ Studio renders suck, not because of the excellent renderer, but because some features in the main app were either missing or limited or whatever. See what I’m getting at?


And the answer to that is not a stack of manuals or specifications, it’s a simple yes or no. Nothing to do with the abilities of the user, solely a function of the application.

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Posted: 23 July 2012 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 225 ]
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megacal - 23 July 2012 01:31 PM

Personally, I love the Carrara rendering capabilities

Dartanbeck,
I agree…..Carrara does a great job as far as it goes…..it’s fast and has
a lot of options…...it’s adequate for most of what I want to do. 


But it’s subjective, and I’d like to see more realistic renders and physics abilities.


Kendall,

Each type of renderer has its own strengths and weaknesses, and if one is smart s/he will utilize the strengths of all available tools.  Even straight raytracers like POV have their uses .

  What limits Carrara? Why can’t it render as well as, e.g. 3Delight or Lux?

Don’t they all use algorithms and simulate bouncing photons?


To a degree and not necessarily.  grin  Raytracing and Radiosity do indeed simulate the path(s) of the rays of light.  Other methods/features do not necessarily simulate light per-se.  The algorithms used for “advanced” surface features make a difference—introduction, or removal, of (micro)facets, sub-division, normal or bump mapping, etc all make a huge difference, and the distinct methods used make a HUGE difference.  As everyone here should know, advances in rendering technology happen every day.  Carrara’s limitation is that the renderer is pretty much the same now as it was then: little advancement.  This is not to say that Carrara’s renderer can’t do excellent work, we all know that it can.


Kendall

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