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Parented items scale auto change and mess up?
Posted: 07 May 2013 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I have never experienced and have not known,, because,I use group about many case,, so do not try them.
but today I find and feel daz studio scaling is so unique.

1. load primitive or obj . I adjust scale what I need.

2. load genesis. and some clothings ,(fit to)  pic1

3 I parent genesis to obj. because I want to move the obj with genesis.
all clothings and hair can not keep fit and mess up. pic2

4 it seems so unique because,, even if I parent all clothings to the obj(scale changed) as same as genesis,
they can not fit to genesis. pic3

5 after many testing,, I know there is some way to avoid this strange problem.
I may need to first clothings and hair parent to genesis. then genesis parent to obj.
it seems their scale keep with good proportion.

6 but after release all,, the scale perfectly mess up.  pic4

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scalepic1.JPGpic2.JPGpic3.JPGpic4.JPG
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Posted: 07 May 2013 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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As a workaround, can you parent the cone to Genesis, instead of parenting Genesis to the cone? 

Or, select everything and from the menu choose Create > “New Group”?

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Posted: 07 May 2013 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Each bone in a clothing item or figure has an “inherit parent scale”  option in the Tool tab.


I don’t know if that affects behavior when the figure is parented to another figure or not (I’m rendering and can’t check this second), but I know exactly what you mean about Genesis clothes freaking out when Genesis is a child of another scene item.

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Posted: 07 May 2013 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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When you Parent Genesis to the CONE all items default to the cones settings. You should Parent the Cone to GENESIS to keep all items defaulting to Genesis’s settings. And as just said the Group function is much better and was designed to be used for just the reasons you have seen. I never Parent items that do not Auto parent anymore, I group them.

EDIT: Sickle is spot on, the TOP item in a Parent is what ALL items take the settings from.

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Posted: 07 May 2013 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Jaderail - 07 May 2013 04:46 PM

When you Parent Genesis to the CONE all items default to the cones settings. You should Parent the Cone to GENESIS to keep all items defaulting to Genesis’s settings. And as just said the Group function is much better and was designed to be used for just the reasons you have seen. I never Parent items that do not Auto parent anymore, I group them.

There are special circumstances where that doesn’t work, though.  Suppose you want to put Genesis into the giant hand of another Genesis?  It makes much more sense to parent Genesis to the hand.


I got around it by parenting Genesis to the hand, finalizing the hand’s position, and then unparenting the smaller Genesis in place.  The clothes snapped back into their proper positions on unparenting.

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Posted: 07 May 2013 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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SickleYield - 07 May 2013 04:48 PM

There are special circumstances where that doesn’t work, though.  Suppose you want to put Genesis into the giant hand of another Genesis?  It makes much more sense to parent Genesis to the hand.


I got around it by parenting Genesis to the hand, finalizing the hand’s position, and then unparenting the smaller Genesis in place.  The clothes snapped back into their proper positions on unparenting.

And Again you are correct, but as stated if you had not Un-Parented the smaller Genesis the items on it would not have been Scaled properly, and possibly positioned wrong as well.

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Posted: 07 May 2013 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Jaderail - 07 May 2013 04:51 PM
SickleYield - 07 May 2013 04:48 PM

There are special circumstances where that doesn’t work, though.  Suppose you want to put Genesis into the giant hand of another Genesis?  It makes much more sense to parent Genesis to the hand.


I got around it by parenting Genesis to the hand, finalizing the hand’s position, and then unparenting the smaller Genesis in place.  The clothes snapped back into their proper positions on unparenting.

And Again you are correct, but as stated if you had not Un-Parented the smaller Genesis the items on it would not have been Scaled properly, and possibly positioned wrong as well.

That’s why I say “I got around it” rather than “I made it work.”  No argument that the functionality is borked. wink

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Posted: 07 May 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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@Sean Riserch
sorry I did not translate right . I set,,  prop(or obj etc) is parent , genesis is child of obj.
(I often feel difficulilty to tell about parented or parent items,,) ,

I hope,  test it keeping order what I said with my pic,,^^;

when I find this problem,,

I imported obj from blender to the scene. then load genesis subsets with clothing.
I tweaked and adjust scale of the obj a little,(it is a little rug human shape,, I want to
set bone etc,, in daz studio,, to test some)

then I set the obj as parent of geensis.
(simply drug genesis with clothings,  under the node of obj in scene tab)

at a moment,  hair and clothing messed up,,  I could not find why it happend.
because,, I have never feel difficulity, when I make link genesis and prop.
there seems too many possiblity to understand it.

to understand clear, I use primitive,, and new scene , new load genesis,

@Jaderlail,, sorry there seems missunderstanding,,

I can not change the way to do what I hope. if I set genesis as parent of obj,
it is perfectly different meaning for me.

and it is not question, how can I do.  I know there should be way to avoid problems.
(make node, or group etc,, )

I simply say about the problem, which should be but can not in daz studio.

@SickleYield

Yes I feel , you perfectly understand clear,, what I want to tell. thank you much.

I think,,, without changing the scale of genesis ,,it must not be changed .
and if ds need to change scale,, the fit to items need to change scale as same as genesis.
or ds need to adjust scale,, when I set hair and clothings to the child of obj as same as geensis.

the problem is,, the effect which should be expecteced do not happen.
the effect which should not be expected just happen.  and there seems no reasonable rule.

ofcourse ds simply worked as they coded, and I know there should be way to avoid problem.
but I do not ask the way of how to.

if there is clear convention, when tweaking fit to items and parenting,
daz need to guide with clear documents to user.

I do not know,, I may better to send bug or future request,,
but I feel you (great vendor)  understand what I think, and you know why I think it is problem.
and may cause problem for other user too. 

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Posted: 07 May 2013 09:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Kit, I’m afraid your method is not supported any longer. Many of the FIXES to DS4.5 were added to stop the bug’s that allowed your method to work. Older versions Did allow it to work your way but it was not supposed to. The way DS4.5 now works is the way it was always meant for it to work. I’m not sure a work around is possible with the program working properly.

I have been proven wrong before and I hope I am again so you can do what you wish to do.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 02:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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thank you Jaderlail,, and I actually said I want to move both at same time,
so You adviced me the way , I understand.

I know,, if I set genesis as parent, and set obj or prop as child (like usuall accessory or hand holds, )
they must move with. but it is not my true prupose and goal.

and I do not persist on the way which can not work for me, (actually,, I never do same thing
for my purpose)  just report it here (so I choose , daz studio discussion topic).

“translation”,  “rotation”, and “scale”,  must be “basic” to decide the poze and positon in 3d world.(local or world cordinate system, )
when someone learn new 3d aprication,, we may learn at first how manage these value, in the aprication.
make link as parent is usuall . and daz figure have “fit to” technology for rig figure.

I know many 3d aprication have original way when we arrange obj or rigged figure and poze them in 3d world,
but I think,, how the reguration is unique,, the behaivor need to much the clear rule .
we just need to keep the rule of aprication. and if there is exception,, we just check manuall.

I believe “daz studio” is simple and easy aprication when we play.
we load figure , props, buckground, etc, then set materials, adjust shape , translate or poze them in 3d world as we hope.
then set light, render.

I understand daz have provided or will provide way to avoid problems when It need.
but I am afraid,, these modification is branches. and tempolary. not solve about base problem.

the more learn about daz studio,,  I feel if daz studio need more drastic modification about their trunk and base design
to manage obj and figure in 3d world as user plan.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 02:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I understand fully. And I hope this does get fixed. You are right. Parenting should not change anything it should just parent.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 08:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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In my own experiance of doing the same thing, unparent Genesis from the obj after its in place and the cloths should be fine.  If not, unparent and reparent to Genesis.

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Posted: 08 May 2013 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Mattymanx

if I just set obj as parent of genesis,, scale mess up about fit to clothings.
and un-parent genesis,it simply return everything as default scale.
(but there is no meaning,, It just set everything at start point)

then there is some way to prevent it. I said about the case
1 way is, we set all clothing as child of genesis first.
then set genesis as child of scaled obj.

about this case,, if I unparent obj   , then unparent genesis,the scale corrupt.
not return to default.  it is unusuall.

I understand,, if I keep order how to unparent them.
that means I need to unparent genesis first. then un parent each items from genesis.

I say about these un -suitable and not reasonable behavor of daz studio.

Then actually I have idea to prevent it.

one is use option when I parent genesis. (check off parent in plade)
but on that case,, it change genesis scale.

after that I need to all items parent to the obj as same as genesis.

it can keep the proportion which fit to genesis too.  but it is not so good way,
because,, when I set genesis as child,, it change genesis scale too.  I do not hope so.
 
to protect you think I am so idiot,,
I already know the answer,
I first make group which composed by genesis and fit to items. then set the group as child of the obj

on this case,, How I unparent obj or genesis they do not corrupt.

  it seems best way,, and I understand jadelail or Sickle yard understand it clear. and you know well.

but it shows ,, DS seems have not good regulation about scaling. if I need to set group rist,
ds need to set group auto when I auto-fit some items to genesis. I think so.
and it seemes better to be shown in Scene tab as clear hieralchy.

or may need not set group. if DS was desigend well about manging parent and auto-fit items.
when they are programmed. but about both case,, DS may need to be improved
to clearly show “fit to” node hieralchy in scene tab.

now they just arrange as if there is no hieralchy. so that We can not check which items are now “fit to” or not.
in scene tab. 

 

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