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I am so tired of misleading promo images:( (picure proof inside)
Posted: 19 May 2013 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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ReDave - 19 May 2013 09:35 AM

@ChiMakwa: well, I’m not FirstBastion but here are a few tips:
-check the logo on all promos. If there is no logo on a given image, then it’s rendered in an external renderer that is not 3Delight nor Poser (Firefly, actually). Likely LuxRender. .

Sorry, that’s completely untrue.

ReDave - 19 May 2013 09:35 AM

-if there is water in a promo and it looks real, then it’s likely LuxRender, perhaps Octane.

Not necessarily.

ReDave - 19 May 2013 09:35 AM

-compare sky brightness to scene lightness. The two renders above clearly show that one has a dark looking sky: that marks it unambiguously as either a 3Delight or Poser render..

The lightness or darkness of the sky has nothing to do with what it was rendered in.

ReDave - 19 May 2013 09:35 AM

-Skin will look not so much better in LuxRender than in 3Delight/Firefly, in fact it looks sometimes worse.

That depends on the skill of the person who made the render.


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Posted: 19 May 2013 11:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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What part of the Promo Images are what the item can look like when a user has the skill to do a render of that quality is hard to grasp? I’ve understood that from my first render with a figure and one distant light.

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Posted: 20 May 2013 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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So what is the vender suppose to do - bad renders, employ a beginner to do his promos, both of which would lose them sales I wouldn’t buy something that looks bad because the promo artist doesn’t know what he’s doing. I actually want to know what it CAN look like.
You mentioned sicklyield I didn’t buy from that artist for a long time because of the poor promos.
If I see poke through or other ‘mistakes’ in the promo renders it puts me off buying, to me it says there’s a lack of skill or concern for how things look which can mean lack of care or skill in the construction of the item for sale.
Good promos say that the item can look that good, I just have to learn how to do it.

The problem with the hair promos not showing back and sides has been complained about for years and it has greatly improved.

 

 

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Posted: 20 May 2013 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Just a small note to state that I have no issues whatsoever with the quality of FirstBastion’s work; in fact he is in my ‘really have to have’ list of content creators where I have to mentally wrestle my impulse to buy against the desire to eat.  Ok, not that bad, but I do need to keep a weather eye on the pennies.

Promo images are there to promote the product and therefore will tend to be toward the top end of the quality scale.  I agree it is nice when any additional work or content used is noted, and that should be the norm.  As a lot of things are usable in DS as well as Poser it should also be noted which was used.  If the product has content that is specifically for an additional render engine/plug-in, such as Octane, Luxus, Reality, LuxRender, etc., then by all means use that route to create one, or more, of the promo images - and state that was done.  It is also fair enough to use Octane or LuxRender (or anything else?) for a sample promo image, just to showcase the product, but that image should not really be the ‘leading promo image’.

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Posted: 20 May 2013 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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SimonJM - 20 May 2013 08:27 AM

...in fact he is in my ‘really have to have’ list of content creators where I have to mentally wrestle my impulse to buy against the desire to eat..

+1

I’m watching a video from Slide3D right now where the UberEnvoriornment and two lights set to something other than the default light settings are rendering some amazing results. Also the quote about the water, simply not true, here’s one of several tutorials on how to create water in Daz Studio

Lighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6lyEVOHjN0&list=PLIz5Oj4tjilesUb2bFxJHR51MOy0HqCHs

Water
http://www.sharecg.com/v/60417/

these were both rendered in 3Delight and Daz Studio.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Scorpio64 Dragon: Thing is, I don’t really care about the artist’s rendering abilities unless they also peddle in render engines or UE shaders or the like.  I ONLY care about the product I’m getting, and I want to know what I’m getting.  That means I want to see at least one promo image from front and back with ZERO or at most minor postwork, and promo images of all items in the product (I hate when it’s say—a collection of 15 gloves, but they only show like 5 of the models) 
I especially don’t care about uber-top quality promos if said artist has some freebies for download that I can sample, and as I said before, artists who don’t release any long-term freebies lose points with me—I am reluctant to purchase products from them because I’m not certain what level of quality to expect (and this gets far worse when they don’t give any details about their product beyond “10 shape morphs, 12 movement morphs, 10 mat poses and only show like, 7 of the movement morphs and no shape morphs or something like that *and even worse than that if they only show the product from 1 and a half angles or one angle).  I purchase Sickleyield’s and Valea’s products primarily because I know based on their freebies that I’ll be getting quality *not to mention that Sickleyield gives a list of the morphs in her editorials—though sadly Valea does not IIRC.*.  So my only concern at that point is whether or not the product is one that fits my designs or desires in taste.  I know what to expect as far as quality with 3-D-C, AprilYSH, Zev0, 3DCheapskate, Propschick, and many other major freebie vendors as well, but again, I want to see the hair and clothing from different angles so that I can determine whether or not it’s of a design I seek.
With props it’s a bit different and in most cases (except for buildings/scenes and vegetation, or say- an open container or something), seeing the object from different angles isn’t really necessary (the morphs are, though, if it has those)

And yes, as a customer, I DO like to know what render engine was used for the image, and whether or not it was rendered in Poser or DS.  And esp. if postwork was done.  And, ideally, if the product is a set or shaders, shader presets, render engine, or lighting set/system, I’d like to know what the render settings were used (actually, I’d kinda like to see the images under different quality render specs—like say, from medium or upper-mid quality settings upward—and I have seen a vendor or two place a stamp listing render settings on their promo images, though I can’t remember who off my head, and I think I’ve also seen others who list them in their editorial.)

Sorry for yammering so much in my posts.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Please stop repeating the claim that the images were post-worked - this has already been dealt with (they weren’t, other than the background).

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Posted: 30 May 2013 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I guess I’m just a little unsure of why there’s such outrage.  Daz has the most generous return policy of any digital vendor I know.  If you aren’t able to get the desired results from a product with the amount of effort you wish to expend, return it.  If you feel so compelled, send a note to the vendor expressing your dissatisfaction.  Or, if you are particularly attached to the product and want to make it work, contact DAZ tech support or the vendor and request the specific conditions under which the promo images were done.  It seems like FirstBastion has just done a very detailed job of making that explanation.

ChiMakwa - 19 May 2013 03:38 AM

I have spent close to $600 in a relatively short time here at DAZ.

I’ve spent the equivalent of a CAR here.  I continue to spend it because the customer service is amazing.  When I became very displeased with the service, I didn’t shop here until the issues were resolved. Sometimes we just have to politely advocate what we want and then withdraw our dollars if it doesn’t happen.  Daz makes that extremely easy to do because of their satisfaction-guaranteed policies.

Render quality ALWAYS comes down to the experience, effort, and detail-orientation of the artist.  One never gains experience without muddling.  As for the continued complaining… This is just starting to sound like a dead horse.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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It sounds like a lot of the frustration comes from the way that DAZ markets all this to new to the 3D world (or DS) as a one click solution where anyone or their dog can create art just like the promos.  I keep reading references to Ready to Render, as if all one has to do is purchase a product, open it in DS, hit render and voila!  You have an image identical to the promos.

As any number of people have pointed out.  That isn’t going to happen.  Ever.  MAYBE, if you purchase a Ready to Render scene (though I have my doubts about that because there still is more to creating promo level (or better) art than just purchasing a product).

I’ve also spent the equivalent of a car here.  If I’d saved all the money I spent here, I could have afforded a Prius in 2006 when I had to replace my 21 year old Camry.  I’ve not yet stopped shopping here, but I spend far less here than I did in the past.  The Prius c Two may be within my reach :wink:

I purchased the product in question, and thanks to this topic, I finally used it in a scene.  What can I say ... I have just too much content!  While I use (until today) Poser Pro 2012, I was completely satisfied with the render.  No, it didn’t look like the promos (but then, I used my lights, my camera angle, a skydome and Indirect Light), but it sure didn’t look like what’s been posted here as proof that the product promos are misleading.

I did no tweaking other than to rotate the water.  Of course, then I took it into Photoshop and postworked the hell out of it.  Not because the render was crap, but because I wanted more of a watercolor look and feel.

It is customary for promo artists to include content from other products in the promos.  That’s not deception.  Sometimes it is hard to tell exactly what is included in a product (and some promos are so dark that you just can’t see anything).  If there isn’t a promo that shows exactly what’s included (usually there is), that’s where you need to read the What’s Included closely, and if you still don’t know ... ask.  Someone has already purchased the product and will answer.  If there isn’t a vendor topic already started to promote the product, start a topic asking for other’s feedback.  If there is a vendor topic, ask for non promo renders. Don’t hesitate to ask others to show renders either if you think the promos look entirely too slick.  Bottom line ... promo art shows what can be done with the product IF you are skilled.  They rarely show what a beginner or a less skilled customer will be able to produce.  Also, preloads and camera/light presets are not at all the same as Ready to Render.

When it isn’t noted what was used to render the promos, it’s wise to ask.  Never assume the promos were rendered in your application.  DS / Poser / Reality / Octane / etc., along with custom lighting, produce very different results.  It’s one of my frustrations that Poser renders are very seldom included in product promos.

Well ... that’s my $0.02. 

(and congratulations to anyone who is able to render a Stonemason product straight out of the box and have it look like the promos.  Mine never do.  Which is not to say that Stonemasons products are .defective or his promos misleading.  They are anything but.  But, I believe most of the lighting that’s included with his products is DS.  Then too ... I’ve rarely been happy with the lighting that’s included in any product.  It’s usually far too bright.)

KaribousBoutique - 30 May 2013 03:02 PM

I guess I’m just a little unsure of why there’s such outrage.  Daz has the most generous return policy of any digital vendor I know.  If you aren’t able to get the desired results from a product with the amount of effort you wish to expend, return it.  If you feel so compelled, send a note to the vendor expressing your dissatisfaction.  Or, if you are particularly attached to the product and want to make it work, contact DAZ tech support or the vendor and request the specific conditions under which the promo images were done.  It seems like FirstBastion has just done a very detailed job of making that explanation.

ChiMakwa - 19 May 2013 03:38 AM

I have spent close to $600 in a relatively short time here at DAZ.

I’ve spent the equivalent of a CAR here.  I continue to spend it because the customer service is amazing.  When I became very displeased with the service, I didn’t shop here until the issues were resolved. Sometimes we just have to politely advocate what we want and then withdraw our dollars if it doesn’t happen.  Daz makes that extremely easy to do because of their satisfaction-guaranteed policies.

Render quality ALWAYS comes down to the experience, effort, and detail-orientation of the artist.  One never gains experience without muddling.  As for the continued complaining… This is just starting to sound like a dead horse.

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Posted: 30 May 2013 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Satira Capriccio - 30 May 2013 06:30 PM

I’ve also spent the equivalent of a car here.  If I’d saved all the money I spent here, I could have afforded a Prius in 2006 when I had to replace my 21 year old Camry.  I’ve not yet stopped shopping here, but I spend far less here than I did in the past.  The Prius c Two may be within my reach :wink:

I purchased the product in question, and thanks to this topic, I finally used it in a scene.  What can I say ... I have just too much content!

LOL!  I’m so glad I’m not alone… I’m also impressed that your Camry was old enough to drink in the US!  Wow!

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Posted: 30 May 2013 11:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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It sounds like a lot of the frustration comes from the way that DAZ markets all this to new to the 3D world (or DS) as a one click solution where anyone or their dog can create art just like the promos.  I keep reading references to Ready to Render, as if all one has to do is purchase a product, open it in DS, hit render and voila!  You have an image identical to the promos.
I just want to specify that I am not one such person.

It is customary for promo artists to include content from other products in the promos.  That’s not deception.
And myself, I have zero problem with this.  Although it’s kinda nice to have the credits since there have been times when I’ve seen a set of hair or clothes and thought “what model is that, I MUST have it…!”

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Posted: 31 May 2013 02:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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opal42987 I don’t care about the venders rendering ability, what I care about is the vendors attention to detail and whether or not they care about presenting their product well, if they don’t care enough about the promo’s etc I’m inclined to feel that they may have used the same casualness in creating the item in the first place.

I agree with the statement about which render engine was used, but that is mostly done.
Back views are becoming more and more common than they used to be.

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Posted: 12 June 2013 03:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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I have to say this has been a very interesting topic to read!

I myself have been a 3D hobbyist for almost three years now and whilst I’m by no means a pro, I’m much better than I used to be. I now render exclusively with Reality/Lux so its always nice when vendors include options for such engines.

Funnily enough I’m hoping to become a vendor myself some day (when I find a niche), so this thread has proved very useful.

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Posted: 06 August 2013 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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I have no issue with how the product is presnted. In fact it was clearly marked whether it was done in Poser or DS.

My only *small* gripe is that I’d like to see the full geometry (without textures) so I can get a feel for the dimensions and scope of the piece.
(Vendors like StoneMason usually provides these along with his “Beauty Shots”)

I have had no issues at all with any of FirstBastion’s products and have found them to perform as expected and advertised.

Lighting is an art form that needs to be learned, not provided.

(My 2 cents)

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