Digital Art Zone

 
   
1 of 3
1
I am so tired of misleading promo images:( (picure proof inside)
Posted: 07 May 2013 07:20 AM   [ Ignore ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

Happened with me about 100 times, but now I just got enough, so I decided to post my thoughts about the subject.

What is my problem you ask? Well, my problem is the missleading, and miniature-sized promo-product images in the daz shop. Here is my latest and favourite example: “a walk across water”. (product page: http://www.daz3d.com/a-walk-across-water)

Look at the promo images: they are incredible small, even via zoomed lightbox: the promo images size in the daz shop is usually around*500pixel. 500 pixel in 2013, in the age of HD monitors!
So okay, you can’t see anything from the mini-promo pix (my monitor is 1980*1020, so you can guess what I can see from an 500px image regarding texture quality, etc.). 
So… you need to decide via these mini-pics.

And this leads to the main problem: the promo pics lies to you! After getting the product, and loading up the so called “ready to render 1 click automatic scene with lights” product, you getting crap, low resolution textures, sometimes without bump and displacement maps, also the rendered product is nothing like the promo image, even when they put “rendered in Daz3d” at the bottom of the (miniature) promo image.

Here is the proof: look at this promo image, and check out the somewhat nice, reflective water.  Note: the set supposed to be “one click”, with pre-made lights, material settings, etc. (And yes: I did apply everything in DazStudio Pro, it’s not hard to click on 3 icons in smart content).

So please, please Daz - actual render (Daz and Poser) images in the shop in HIGH rez! ... without postwork. 
That’s what the costumer wants. Not uber-postworked-photoshop-uberenvironment light-rendered, miniature images (every render looks good in small size, we all know this trick:)

ps: no, I dont want to do magical tricks in the material editor, these scenes supposed to be “what you see what you get”, that’s why we buying them. If I want to work with materials for 3 hours, just to get the water on the promo pic, I have Maya or UnrealEd for that.

Image Attachments
dazpormo.jpgdazpormo2.jpgdazpormo3.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  13404
Joined  2003-10-09

Are you sure you are using the DAZ Studio scene file, not eh Poser prop?

 Signature 

DAZ Studio Frequently Asked Questions

Index of free DAZ Studio scripts and plugins list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

Thanks for the reply, Yeah, I am sure, there is a big “DS” and “PS” in the filenames, so it’s easy to identify them. (Also tried with Daz Install Manager as well).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2261
Joined  2007-12-07

Interesting - this is a set I have and there seems to be no ‘ready to render’ option as such, ‘just’ a .daz file that loads the scene, lights and cameras.  In the scene there is no skydome as you seem to have.  There is a DS light option, but that merely replaces the sveral lights loaded originally with a single distant light for ‘Ambient’ and a Reality lights option which does the same for a Distant light called Sun.

 Signature 

Some writings by a friend:
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/11.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/13.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/7.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

Thanks for the reply

“loads the scene, materials, lights and cameras” - if this is not, then what is ready to render?:)  Also why the textures are so crappy?  Where are the nice sharp textures from the promo picture? How can I achieve this eye-candy water then? What to do? Isn’t it supposed to looks like the same (or at least almost the same) like the promo water?

Look at these textures (attachement) - If I had a high resolution promo image in the shop, and I can see these Xbox360-era textures, I would not buy it - but all I had is an 500pixel promo pic. (I will retexture it anyway with high rez textures, no prob, but hey… misleading advertisement….)

Anyways, if anyone can tell me *what to do*, if I want to achieve the nice-eyecandy water from the promo pic, I will be thankful. Really, I am curious…

Image Attachments
textures.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

BTW, there are some vendors, whose promo pic are not “fake” - you get the same high quality after loads up their scene/props, like Stonemasons, P3DA, Nightshift3D.

Never had this problem with Stonemason props for instance - highrez textures, reflections, bumpmaps, specular settings in materials, etc.

Just to be fair:)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2261
Joined  2007-12-07

Sorry, but there is a ‘ready to render’ category in Smart Content and some products come with that all set up ...

I suppose the .daz scene could be deemed that!  I’ve used the product in the past and been quite happy with it, though i agree the water does not (from memory) look quite as good but then maybe it is reflecting the sky (a sky which is not included?).  Let’s have a test.  Pick one of the cameras that load with the scene, pick a render size and I’ll see do a render based on that and see what results I get.

 Signature 

Some writings by a friend:
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/11.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/13.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/7.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

Thanks for the quick reply SimonJM!

Let’s have a test, nice idea!  Pick the scene (smart content/presets/walkacrosswater), put some lights on it (realitysun will do, comes with the package), and let’s render with the “footbridge3” camera (this is most likely the one used in thbe promo pic with the “no swimming” sign).  Let’s render it at 2000*2000pixel (highest quality) to check out the below average textures (especiall on the ground).  Also let’s put a skybox above the scene, to see if the water reflecting it or not.

Here is a quick render from me (active viewport), I did load up the scene, with the lights comes with the package, I did use a skybox to make sure that’s not the prob with the water - and here is the result. Very far away from the promo pic, especially the water:(


it is possible to achieve a nice pic, with really-really heavy postwork (even need to put reflections on the water in Photoshop, and multitexturing the ground) see the sample pic 2. But that’s really heavy postwork, almost 50% is “photoshopped”, and a very bit-o-render left:)))

Image Attachments
postwork.jpgquickrender.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2261
Joined  2007-12-07

Ok, will do but ... will just say that the Reality light will not give a good result if used as a standalone light as that is just a single Distant light which will, by default, remove all previously loaded lights, but I’ll give it a go.  I, too, reckoned the #3 camera was the one smile

 Signature 

Some writings by a friend:
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/11.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/13.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/7.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  2261
Joined  2007-12-07

Ok, done the tests - water does not look that good it has to be said (a quick peek at the surfaces tab shows it has 0 reflection and refraction), but the ground is, IMHO, pretty good.  I gave the water a quick tweak and ... well, let’s just say I’m not showing that image ... wink

Image 01 is with just the Reality Sun, Image o2 is with default lights

Image Attachments
Test_01.jpgTest_02.jpg
 Signature 

Some writings by a friend:
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/11.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/13.html
http://www.lizardsofthehost.co.uk/7.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
New Member
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2005-04-04

Thanks for your help and for the tests!

I think it’s safe to say now, that the promo image is kinda “fake”-ish; looks like all we can achieve is the result we see on your image (and on my renders too). Which is “okay”... but doesnt looks like the promo, by any stretch of the imagination lol

the ground is not so bad, but for close up renders in high rez, it’s just unuseable.

I am really eager to hear somebody from Daz, about “what were they thinking” when putting up those kind of heavily retouched promo-images…  don’t mean disrespect, but this is 100% false advertising as it’s best:)

I mean… come on… seriously… look at this promo image…


thanks again for the tests!

 

Image Attachments
comeon.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  13404
Joined  2003-10-09

Using post-work in the backdrop, if that’s how the flare was added, is not faking and is allowed. The props themselves, however, should be as they came from DS (or Poser). I don’t see reflections on the water in that last image either, though the water is more solid than in the renders you have made.

 Signature 

DAZ Studio Frequently Asked Questions

Index of free DAZ Studio scripts and plugins list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2013 11:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  443
Joined  0

I’m going to toss my 2 cents in here.

Some products look amazing right out of the box, and those tend to come from the usual suspects. I know that pretty much anything I buy from either stonemason or uzilite will blow my mind. Every time I have bought an uzilite clothing product I am taken aback at the level of detail both in the models themselves and the morphing options coming along for the ride. Often he will make a product similar to one I already own and side-by-side there is just no comparison. Its like buying cars. Sure, 2 people can sell you 2 cars, but one’s a honda and the other’s a rolls royce.

That said, other products require tons of work and tinkering to make useful, and many times I will look back at the promos that made me buy it with a more careful eye only to reveal the problems I experience. A fine print here about the rendering conditions or a problem polygon hidden behind a well-placed bush etc. tends to raise my ire. Recently I bought a hair prop that had some serious issues IMO and when i went back to look at the pretty promos, I discovered the problematic area was always blurred, hidden or plain not pictured.

In the end, however, DAZ offers a no-questions-asked refund policy and I make use of it. If the product has issues, is too problematic or just simply doesnt match the enticing promos, back it goes. I promise you I keep more than I return and I spend a huge sum every month at DAZ -and this policy goes a long way towards keeping me spending at DAZ. In other words, that artist *may* have tried to cheat me, or maybe I misinterpreted promos etc. but I do NOT feel ripped off as I can simply return it.

What I would like to see, in future, is a stricter code from DAZ about quality, inclusion in smart content, and general value. I feel like we now have a suped up daz studio, the next generation of figures -and its time that all content being sold also be next gen and high quality. We come here for depth and realism -products really need to reflect that.

And many times they do. 90% of the time, I really have no complaint. But that pesky 10% of the time leaves me wishing DAZ would get stricter and artists would get more dedicated to the product’s flexibility, realism, and quality. I keep seeing umteen body moprh packs coming out labelled “for genesis female and v5” when we also have male figures. Im not sure I need 75 MORE breast morphs while I still can’t change the brow angle of any figure. Genesis is about flexibility; I’d like to see some more of that. I know artists want to sell specific characters but Ive always bought those -but I also want and need the flexibility to shape that genesis face putty into a cast of thousands. I want all products made now to snap into my smart content. I want more products that can become many things, like the supersuit or the incredible sam and sadie suit. I want interiors and exteriors that go for more realism and have greater attention paid to detail. I’m buying, and buying a lot. Im here to feed a need and fill my library with reliable, high quality products for professional use as well as hobby. Up the standards. Get more stonemasons and uzilites wanting to sell here. And bring the products surrounding genesis into the next gen as well.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 May 2013 03:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2693
Joined  2009-02-24

One thing to know is that the people who put these promos together really know their stuff and can create absolutely gorgeous scenes with it. Not being able to reproduce that isn’t necessarily the fault of the product, but comes from a lack of experience. Reflections, for example, are only good if they have something to reflect. There are plenty of products which show beautifully detailed reflections, but you won’t get any of that unless the scene is built around it.

In your render example, there’s no sky, and thus nothing for the water to be reflecting. That’s why you won’t get quite the same result. Water is, in my opinion, quite a challenging material because it’s so changeable. Still, with practice you’ll be duplicating those results in a flash.

 Signature 

Find me on DeviantArt
Download my free IBL presets for Luxus
Re-upload of Cresent’s awesome pwToon shaders
Create your own Smart Content

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 May 2013 05:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  822
Joined  2008-09-17

The Reality Sun light is used ofr the Reality Plug-in for rendering in LuxRender (which it appears some of those promo images were rendered in).  That light is NOT designed to work best in DS which is why you get a crappy looking image.

 Signature 

Resistance is futile.  You will be DAZzimilated


Old post count: 5719

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 May 2013 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  207
Joined  2006-01-26

you are lucky finding fake promos on scenes, I’ve found on FIGURES!, specially Genesis figure morphs…when you don’t have the same hair on the promo figure intended, you have a genesis figure morph with lack of character.

some examples…I prefer not mention, but there’s many.

IMO…ask for a refund, don’t waste your liver.

 Signature 

http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#users/1312/
http://zilvergrafix.deviantart.com/

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 3
1