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3Delight Surface and Lighting Thread
Posted: 06 October 2013 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 196 ]
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Type 0 Negative - 05 October 2013 07:16 PM

I was experimenting with HSS and I don’t see Fresnel doing anything.
I made sure Fresnel Active is turned on, I changes the Strength, Falloff and Sharpness values several different ways and did renders and never seen any visible differences.

What am I missing?

Don’t know for HSS but it works with ubersurface when reflection is active

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Posted: 06 October 2013 10:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 197 ]
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There really isn’t any need to use HSS. UberSurface was designed as the replacement, so if it doesn’t work there then there is absolutely no harm in upgrading, though it probably means redoing the shader settings from scratch.

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Posted: 07 October 2013 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 198 ]
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jimzombie - 06 October 2013 10:02 PM

There really isn’t any need to use HSS. UberSurface was designed as the replacement, so if it doesn’t work there then there is absolutely no harm in upgrading, though it probably means redoing the shader settings from scratch.

Not really. I’ve just released a Ubersurface upgrade preset as freebie. Just apply it over the HSS then play with fresnel

see http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/30022/

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Posted: 07 October 2013 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 199 ]
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Hey, that’s a great little freebie Takeo. Now the question is does the “upgrade” for US2 work when moving from HSS, or is it only for US1? I assume it does, but I don’t think I’ve had need to test it yet. I usually redo skin setting from scratch.

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Posted: 07 October 2013 10:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 200 ]
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The US2 already has an upgrade option and it should work too. The freebie is only for US1. I was fed up of copy/paste my settings each time. And Gedd in another thread told me about that upgrade option in US2.

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Posted: 08 October 2013 01:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 201 ]
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Oh, yeah I get that your script is for US1, but I was wondering if the default one for US2 works with HSS. I know it works with US1.

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Posted: 09 October 2013 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 202 ]
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I was never really that happy with the skin I was getting with HSS, and even SSS in DS was lackluster compared to Poser. You see all these great character skins with Poser previews, while the DS previews of the same product looked dull and plastic, and this really bothered me. Most of the time, the character materials in DS didn’t even bother to use SSS in DS, and when they did the results were OK but not great.

Then V6 came out with a much improved SSS skin. Gia’s skin was even better, and with Girl 6, I can see the DS materials closing in on that soft, almost too real, skin quality that Poser SSS materials get.

Maybe it’s not your cup-o-tea. Everyone has different expectations of what looks ‘real’. Photography itself isn’t actually real, and DS can look downright photographic with the right lighting and render settings. I was looking for that soft, touchable look, that I’m sure you’ve seen.

I noticed that with Girl-6 they actually scaled the diffuse back to 50% and upped the SSS to 75% while putting the Diffuse texture into the SSS color, so that the make-up isn’t completely faded. It still does fade some, so the burden of the detail sharpness of the skin, I think rests on the Specular map. (and probably the Normal and Bump maps, although adapting these are a lot harder) and I think you need both specular 1 (the sharp highlights) and specular 2 (the hazy sheen) to get it right. And yes, the lighting in a scene is a critical factor.

The AoA shader works well to adapt older textures, although because of the lack of custom bump and normal maps, the texture isn’t as good as the newer DAZ base textures (like Gia or Girl-6). I’ve been ctrl-clicking the AoA-SSS onto the older skin (to retain the maps), and setting the surface closer to Girl-6, with pretty decent results. Girl-6 is meant to be more of a ‘toon’ type figure So you may not want to go to that extreme, but I was using it as a base and working back towards a more realistic setting which is largely controlled by the Diffuse.

Around 60-80% diffuse seems to retain enough of the make-up texture as long as the diffuse texture is loaded into the SSS color (and a peach skin color), SSS Strength is good from 40-75%. I start with the SSS base setting of Skin A or Skin B. It’s an easy way to get a good color setting for the light scattering.

The specular channel really makes or breaks it, though. Some skins already have the map loaded into Specular 1 Strength, the color can be anything form blue-gray to white. Specular 2 (the skin sheen) gives me good results without a map, and with a white or light peach color. As far as lighting goes, some sort of specular light or a dark light without shadow can give the skin a little pop.

——
Here’s a render using 2 lights ( a spotlight and a softbox) with a non-SSS skin that I added the AoA-SSS shader to. The skin was originally pretty pale, but I darkened it with a dark red-brown color (and the diffuse texture) in the SSS color channel to get a more ethnic look. The base SSS settings were Skin A.

It doesn’t show the make-up, because the face is obscured, and there’s a lot of shadow, but I like how the tattoo came out with a realistic softness that doesn’t look painted on, and the skin has a good sheen from the specular 2 channel.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/29799/P45/#444186

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Posted: 09 October 2013 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 203 ]
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It looks like you might be linking from a general thread to a member only thread with the image link.

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Posted: 09 October 2013 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 204 ]
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at the moment I’m trying things with HSS,

would someone please explain something for me about the Subsurface Group?

It ranges from o to 64

something something about things can’t share or need to share ? I don’t get it?

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So then for one character, the eyeballs, skin, nails, teeth, etc. all need to have a value of 0
but add a second character and all values of that character need to be set to one, and on and on as long as we do not have more than 64 things in the scene using SSS

Is this right?

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Posted: 09 October 2013 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 205 ]
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I have encountered a problem, I made up a character, was happy with it, eyes, skin teeth, nails etc. all using SSS, Translucency, Ambient, and just about everything else, this is not a photo real human, just a fun character learning experience; but everything looked great to me; so I saved the nails as a DUF materials preset, changed the color a bit, saved that as a different preset, done that a few more times., and the whole time I was doing test renders to see everything looking the way I wanted it too.

Then I tested the presets, I load one, render, and for some reason, the skin look like crap.

I was careful and made sure I was only saving the nail and not selecting anything else. I loaded the nail presets and it took the blushing glow off my skin and made it dead dull.

another test then, loaded the skin, rendered, looked great, add random shader that is only using simple DS default shader, nothing fancy, and it killed the skin again.

It is really aggravating to do a lot of work, everything makes me happy and I break it trying to pack it up.

Please, any clues or advice?

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Posted: 10 October 2013 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 206 ]
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The group setting identifies surfaces that are connected and so should get scattered light from each other - so parts of the same physical surface should be given the same value and things that should be separate should have different values.

I’m not quite clear on the issue with presets - are you saying it is not correctly storing or setting the shader used?

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Posted: 10 October 2013 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 207 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 10 October 2013 08:15 AM

The group setting identifies surfaces that are connected and so should get scattered light from each other - so parts of the same physical surface should be given the same value and things that should be separate should have different values.

I’m not quite clear on the issue with presets - are you saying it is not correctly storing or setting the shader used?

So, hand arm shoulder neck face legs feet torso head would be set to 0 because they are tied together and finger nails and toe nails would be set to 1and teeth is set to 2 all eye parts set to 3 is this right?

And the material presets seem to be saving correctly however the botch happens when i apply a preset to the nails. Only the nails are suppose to change but for some reason it is changing the skin too. And i check the surfaces and see the skin settings have not changed all is still the same the differences is showing on the render.

So,

Skin renders fine. Nails render fine. I apply preset to nails. Skin settings do not change in surface tab but now renders differently.

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Posted: 10 October 2013 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 208 ]
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Type 0 Negative - 10 October 2013 09:40 AM
Richard Haseltine - 10 October 2013 08:15 AM

The group setting identifies surfaces that are connected and so should get scattered light from each other - so parts of the same physical surface should be given the same value and things that should be separate should have different values.

I’m not quite clear on the issue with presets - are you saying it is not correctly storing or setting the shader used?

So, hand arm shoulder neck face legs feet torso head would be set to 0 because they are tied together and finger nails and toe nails would be set to 1and teeth is set to 2 all eye parts set to 3 is this right?

And the material presets seem to be saving correctly however the botch happens when i apply a preset to the nails. Only the nails are suppose to change but for some reason it is changing the skin too. And i check the surfaces and see the skin settings have not changed all is still the same the differences is showing on the render.

So,

Skin renders fine. Nails render fine. I apply preset to nails. Skin settings do not change in surface tab but now renders differently.


I wouldn’t activate SSS on anything else than skin but that is your choice

Bit hard to guess regarding the few informations. For SSS shaders, check that you use raytraced shadows on all lights. No DSM allowed

Some render before/after would be good

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Posted: 10 October 2013 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 209 ]
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example 1
I really hope this does not get pulled.
note that I am not a merchant vender never sold anything and this wip could last forever so at the moment this is not a commercial add for an upcoming character

Okay, so I got the skin set up and am happy with it, kind of got an over exaggerated lively glow and I have not done anything to the nails, they are Dawns default nails.

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Posted: 10 October 2013 09:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 210 ]
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please forgive the double post but I needed to make sure the images went up in the right order and please note the time of this post I am not thread bumping.

Problem here in this image,
after doing the first example render, I went into the surfaces tab and set up the nails the way I wanted them, I then saved the nails as a DUF materials preset. I made sure that when the widow opened only the finger nails and toe nails were selected and saved.

I then applied my saved preset and rendered and when I did, it changed the skin making it look like this. see how the skin is dulled down now? However, I double checked the skin materials in the surface tab and nothing has changed, everything is exactly the way it was, nothing changed for the skin in the surface tab but the skin changed on the render.

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