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Diffuse Strength + SSS Strength = 100%?
Posted: 03 May 2013 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I’m going to say no.  First pic is default Bree, second is with a geometry shell at 16% opacity and her own mat with some settings changed.  Note nose aura.

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Posted: 03 May 2013 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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that’s unfortunate… :( It was a good thought, however!  At least we know!

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Posted: 03 May 2013 08:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I ever wonder why SSS from high end [they claim]render engines produces that green glow around their SSS skin shaders

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Posted: 03 May 2013 10:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Nevermind was stupid on second thought.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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zilvergrafix - 03 May 2013 08:08 PM

I ever wonder why SSS from high end [they claim]render engines produces that green glow around their SSS skin shaders

That’s not SSS producing that, it CAN"T be.  The SSS settings are clearly shown in the top left, and there’s no green.  That is most likely a diffuse rim effect, like you can get with pwSurface.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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evilded777 - 04 May 2013 09:24 AM
zilvergrafix - 03 May 2013 08:08 PM

I ever wonder why SSS from high end [they claim]render engines produces that green glow around their SSS skin shaders

That’s not SSS producing that, it CAN"T be.  The SSS settings are clearly shown in the top left, and there’s no green.  That is most likely a diffuse rim effect, like you can get with pwSurface.

evilded, you speak with so much expertise, can you post your images validating all your knowledge? hmmm

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Posted: 04 May 2013 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Zilver, the bottom part of the jaw looks green too, but the underside of the arms don’t, so I wonder if you have a different setting on the head and ears?
It’s strange, Keyshot uses the counseling of Jenssen, the guy who wrote all those articles on SSS, and, as far as I know, is the only program doing the computations in the proper colour space (although I’m going to say the only proper colour space is just plain physics models, rather than any of these colour spaces people have invented just to annoy everyone else). In any event, that colour space that Keyshot uses alters colour significantly, in particular greens become very strong, so try a redder colour (or less green red) on the first channel.

@wancow: Diffuse+SSS can be anything in general. You need two conditions to justify starting to apply real physics (and thus justify the Diffuse+SSS+Specular+ambient+everything else=1) to rendering: 1) you must have bounces for the light; 2) you must be in a space where you can add colours and obtain something close to real. <—-Condition 2 never happens in any renderer, otherwise they would be rife with Boltzman constants and stuff.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 12:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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ReDave - 04 May 2013 11:22 AM

Zilver, the bottom part of the jaw looks green too, but the underside of the arms don’t, so I wonder if you have a different setting on the head and ears?

Keyshot considers this Cookie figure like a bunch of glued geometry, for Keyshot, ears are different from head, and body is a third geometry, AFAIK it renders individually at different times even with welded geometries on the export settings it just render separately.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I can see why this Diffuse+Spec+SSS=100% math might not work in a biased renderer. Has anyone tried it in LuxRender? I may just try to play around with it in Luxus later…

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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SickleYield - 02 May 2013 09:39 PM

... that glowy-eared translucent look in 3Delight,...

Unless I misheard, that’s what Omnifreaker said Fresnel was for in his video on US2.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Scott-Livingston - 04 May 2013 03:05 PM

I can see why this Diffuse+Spec+SSS=100% math might not work in a biased renderer. Has anyone tried it in LuxRender? I may just try to play around with it in Luxus later…

Regardless of biased vs unbiased, from what I understand, any global or omnidirectional light source will by definition not provide much if any specularity by nature. If one wants to use said light source and doesn’t want to loose the specularity, they would probably have to make up for it some way. Of course the real test is as you say, to set up some test cases and see what the results are.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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zilvergrafix - 03 May 2013 08:08 PM

...produces that green glow around their SSS skin shaders

I could be wrong, but that very definitely looks like SSS to me

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Posted: 06 May 2013 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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zilvergrafix - 04 May 2013 10:07 AM
evilded777 - 04 May 2013 09:24 AM
zilvergrafix - 03 May 2013 08:08 PM

I ever wonder why SSS from high end [they claim]render engines produces that green glow around their SSS skin shaders

That’s not SSS producing that, it CAN"T be.  The SSS settings are clearly shown in the top left, and there’s no green.  That is most likely a diffuse rim effect, like you can get with pwSurface.

evilded, you speak with so much expertise, can you post your images validating all your knowledge? hmmm

Well, over in the sister thread, 3Delight Thread in the Commons, you can see several.

It is my opinion that if you look at that image and note where the primary or hottest light is coming from (top right) that greenish tinge can not correspond to SSS because of where it appears and how SELECTIVELY it appears.  It appears most prominently around the outside edges of the ears, and only there on the ears—one of which in on the completely opposite side of where the light is shining.  I think the ear rims might even be part of the texture.  The other areas, at the right armpit, under the “breasts”, under the mouth, etc, all look to me be a diffuse rim effect.

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Posted: 06 May 2013 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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evilded777 - 06 May 2013 11:31 AM

It is my opinion that if you look at that image and note where the primary or hottest light is coming from (top right) that greenish tinge can not correspond to SSS because of where it appears and how SELECTIVELY it appears.  It appears most prominently around the outside edges of the ears, and only there on the ears—one of which in on the completely opposite side of where the light is shining.  I think the ear rims might even be part of the texture.  The other areas, at the right armpit, under the “breasts”, under the mouth, etc, all look to me be a diffuse rim effect.

saw your images.

uh…The green effect was vanished when the progressive render finished, Keyshot does realtime rendering and I don’t take an screenshot of the final work.

I could tell that “green” fx is only a sub process of the shader itself.

as far as I know, the only champion of SSS in DazStudio is the user known as LATICIS, his render about SSS on deviantart proves that.

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Posted: 07 May 2013 02:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Interesting thread

zilvergrafix - 06 May 2013 05:27 PM

as far as I know, the only champion of SSS in DazStudio is the user known as LATICIS, his render about SSS on deviantart proves that.

It only seems that way as He has made his findings public and he can do a lot of testing and with help from others wink I thought I knew a lot about this subject due to my testing over the years and only recently have I started to get a handle of things. But some aspects I found I know very little when I started to get deeper.

I always thought the SSS shading rate was better higher than being low , opposite of the render setting shading rate.

Never heard of the 100% balance between Diffuse and SSS until recently and I am still unsure if that is correct for Uber Surface etc. As some have already mentioned that the skin texture maps we use have SSS burnt in given the nature of how they are made so in essence everything is a cheat. I honestly don’t think there is one hard and fast rule when it comes to this, yes there are guides lines that we could use to set up Uber Surface form the get go and then tweek as required.

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