LUX render - give it to me straight

AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
edited December 1969 in DAZ Studio Discussion

is there a learning curve or will this be as easy to use as Lantios lights?

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Comments

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 2,897
    edited December 1969

    There will be a degree of a learning curve as the render engine (LuxRender) utilises lights and materials in a different way to those in-built to Daz Studio and Poser. However you get there, via Reality, Luxus, obj export to Blender, etc., etc., you will find that for best results you will need, before the final export to LuxRender, to tweak some materials. You will also need to set up your lighting differently.

    That said, the curve to get to basic "ok level" is not that steep.

    The renders can take a lot longer to 'resolve' as the render mechanism is different to 3Delight, etc., and consists of rays of light being tracked as accurately as possible so the quality should continue to build as time passes. That is quality of the light, not of the artistic level of the scene! :)

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    You COULD try it in Blender first http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index and not worry about buying Reality or Luxus till you're satisfied you want to work with it.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,762
    edited December 1969

    putting is striaght it is like eveything what you put in you get out. Meaning if you are willing to take time and learn then yes it can do a nice job but if you just want to use presets and not learn much then no Lux is not for you. :) Though Luxus does a reasable job for you up to a point beyond that will need to get your hands dirty and expect it to take time.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Best tip for Lux that any user can get. If you prefer fast renders (if 4 hours is long to you) then Lux is not a tool you will want. I have had Lux renders need as much as 24 hours to get to what I was happy with. As I prefer Faster I have not used it in months now.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,404
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Best tip for Lux that any user can get. If you prefer fast renders (if 4 hours is long to you) then Lux is not a tool you will want. I have had Lux renders need as much as 24 hours to get to what I was happy with. As I prefer Faster I have not used it in months now.


    Only true if you are using the CPU only. Anyone who has an OpenCL capable video card can take advantage of the GPU rendering instead.

  • revenger681revenger681 Posts: 154
    edited May 2013

    wancow said:
    You COULD try it in Blender first http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index and not worry about buying Reality or Luxus till you're satisfied you want to work with it.

    I would highly recommend you stay away from Blender. Blender is a completely different beast all together than using DAZ and is quite frankly, one of the most complicated 3D programs I have ever used. Lux is simply a rendering engine. The biggest difference you will see over the default Daz Studio engine is the way it handles light. It's much more complicated on the technical side of how it's doing the calculations... BUT: Surprisingly: It's actually easier to use (IMO) than DAZ as far as lighting is concerned. This is because Lux's interpretation of lighting is much more realistic based.


    When using daz I usually have fill lights, points and etc. to light up my scene. When I use Reality I can use only 1 light at times (Sunlight). Or 2 lights with most scenes. I own Reality and Luxus... Personally I find Reality to be MUCH simpler to use and has a plethora of support out there for it. A very active Youtube tutorial list from preta3D, and an active forum to name a few. He's also on Twitter and has excellent support.

    Post edited by revenger681 on
  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    You COULD try it in Blender first http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index and not worry about buying Reality or Luxus till you're satisfied you want to work with it.

    I would highly recommend you stay away from Blender. Blender is a completely different beast all together than using DAZ and is quite frankly, one of the most complicated 3D programs I have ever used. Lux is simply a rendering engine. The biggest difference you will see over the default Daz Studio engine is the way it handles light. It's much more complicated on the technical side of how it's doing the calculations... BUT: Surprisingly: It's actually easier to use (IMO) than DAZ as far as lighting is concerned. This is because Lux's interpretation of lighting is much more realistic based.


    When using daz I usually have fill lights, points and etc. to light up my scene. When I use Reality I can use only 1 light at times (Sunlight). Or 2 lights with most scenes. I own Reality and Luxus... Personally I find Reality to be MUCH simpler to use and has a plethora of support out there for it. A very active Youtube tutorial list from preta3D, and an active forum to name a few. He's also on Twitter and has excellent support.

    ive seen some mention of Reality on the forums. Does daz sell it?

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Not any longer. Just Google Reality 2 and you will find it.

  • revenger681revenger681 Posts: 154
    edited May 2013

    Reality is sold at renderocity.com, or directly from www.preta3d.com. you would want to look into version 2.5, that's the DAZ version (supports poser. Too). Reality 3 ATM is only for Poser. It's coming soon to DAZ as well.

    Post edited by revenger681 on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,368
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    You COULD try it in Blender first http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index and not worry about buying Reality or Luxus till you're satisfied you want to work with it.

    I would highly recommend you stay away from Blender. Blender is a completely different beast all together than using DAZ and is quite frankly, one of the most complicated 3D programs I have ever used. Lux is simply a rendering engine. The biggest difference you will see over the default Daz Studio engine is the way it handles light. It's much more complicated on the technical side of how it's doing the calculations... BUT: Surprisingly: It's actually easier to use (IMO) than DAZ as far as lighting is concerned. This is because Lux's interpretation of lighting is much more realistic based.


    When using daz I usually have fill lights, points and etc. to light up my scene. When I use Reality I can use only 1 light at times (Sunlight). Or 2 lights with most scenes. I own Reality and Luxus... Personally I find Reality to be MUCH simpler to use and has a plethora of support out there for it. A very active Youtube tutorial list from preta3D, and an active forum to name a few. He's also on Twitter and has excellent support.

    ive seen some mention of Reality on the forums. Does daz sell it?


    Without derailing this thread too much, I'd recommend Luxus or holding out for Reality 3 due later this year. The reason's are many fold. Firstly, Reality 2.5 only supports some of the total materials which Lux offers, not all. Notable omissions include carpaint, cloth and mix materials. Second, Reality 2.5 has no support for volumes aside from basic fog and so you can't use SSS (subsurface scatter) effects. Thirdly, its interaction with Daz Studio can be hit and miss as it opens in its own window. This means you have to close the window to do any alterations to the scene or to use the surface selection tool and so on. Sometimes it can even cease to load at all when you select it from the menu.

    Luxus is integrated into Daz Studio and basically gives you additional material parameters so you can work with them like any other surface. It supports all Luxrender materials and is future compatible for new ones which may arrive. The caveat here is that you may find it a little harder to work with as it requires a better understanding of Luxrender. That being said, using it will teach you how to better manage materials, and so improve your skill in using it.

    Reality 3 is due out later this year, though I don't believe a date has been set yet. It will support all of the new materials, as well as include its own 'skin' setting to make creating realistic skin a MUCH easier affair which alone could be worth the asking price. Paolo states there may be an upgrade option for users of Reality 2.5, but no news yet on how much that will cost, so you might end up paying more than if you had just bought Reality 3 right off the bat.

    No news either on its integration with Daz Studio, but it's likely going to be similar to Reality 2.5, which does bring its own pitfalls but may well be worth enduring for the greatly improved features it brings to the table. Being the technophile that I am, I'll be getting it if only to compare the skin shaders to my own previous attempts in Luxus.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 1,428
    edited December 1969

    I still gets alot of results with R2

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 1,428
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Jaderail said:
    Best tip for Lux that any user can get. If you prefer fast renders (if 4 hours is long to you) then Lux is not a tool you will want. I have had Lux renders need as much as 24 hours to get to what I was happy with. As I prefer Faster I have not used it in months now.


    Only true if you are using the CPU only. Anyone who has an OpenCL capable video card can take advantage of the GPU rendering instead.

    GPU rendering is crashes on my i7 notebook hopefully it may work on my new 32G workstation I am having built...

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,100
    edited May 2013

    is there a learning curve or will this be as easy to use as Lantios lights?

    I own Lantios Lights 2 and Luxus, so I can compare my experiences with each of them.

    With LL2, I can just load the lights, render, and expect good results. Sometimes some modifications are required to get the lighting looking the way I want it to--especially if I'm going for an "artistic" effect, rather than just "lighting that looks pretty good." But out-of-the-box results are usually nice.

    With Luxus, I can just change a setting on the Render pane and it'll render in LuxRender instead of 3Delight. So the minimum amount of effort needed is about the same. But I soon learned not to expect good results on this first try. While Luxus will do some necessary conversions for you automatically, you'll probably need to do some more things on your own to get it looking the way you want it to. And that will require some learning.

    That having been said...I haven't used Luxus very much yet and still don't know much about it, but I've already gotten one render out of it that I was quite pleased with and others seem to like also. :)

    Something else to consider...there's already a Luxus tutorial in the store, and a lightset for Luxus was just released. And I imagine more will be coming.

    Edited to add: But it's not really fair to compare Lantios lights and LuxRender (Luxus or other methods) in terms of ease-of-use. Lantios Lights is designed to be a load-it-and-render-it lighting solution. As others have said, LuxRender is a whole different render engine with many different controls and options. Luxus and Reality are designed to give DAZ Studio users access to that render engine and its options, but they approach this goal in different ways. It's apples to oranges. Both are delicious fruit, in my opinion.

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Not any longer. Just Google Reality 2 and you will find it.

    out of curiosity, why doesnt daz sell it anymore?

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,368
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Not any longer. Just Google Reality 2 and you will find it.

    out of curiosity, why doesnt daz sell it anymore?


    From the Reality website, written by the author.
    I sold the product at DAZ for about 18 months, testing how that channel was performing. Unfortunately the DAZ store, for a software developer, is very expensive and it provides very few ways of promoting the product. On top of this, the developer has no control on his product. I tried to work with DAZ on changing that situation but the company was not receptive of my feedback and, regrettably, I had to remove my products from the DAZ store. There are no conflict between our two companies, in fact deliveries of updates to Reality have been done basically just a few hours after the latest Studio version has been released. Reality is going to be on DAZ Studio for the foreseeable future.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited December 1969

    You do have to learn some stuff and readjust your workflow a bit. Its not an automatic thing like Lantio’s lights or such. And it also depends on the plugin you are using.
    The biggest difference is you have to create your lighting thinking specifically for LuxRender (closer to real life lighting).
    Materials requires adjustments to take full advantage of LuxRender.
    Once you get used to it, creating scenes to be rendered in LuxRender is much easier and faster than for 3Delight, so I think it’s worth the initial effort.
    LuxRender produce better results with less efforts in my opinion, but it takes longer to render. I care more about quality than render times, as they said, if you need renders fast, it might not be for you.

    Reality does the job, but lacks important options and it works outside the DAZ Studio interface. (Old version: $39.95. Current version: $59.95. Not for DAZ Studio)
    Luxus has a lot more options and it’s fully integrated inside DAZ Studio. $19.95. I’m using Luxus now.

    The latest version of Reality is for Poser only, I have no idea when there will be a DAZ Studio version and (if) for how long will there be support for it.
    There was an update for Luxus just some days ago.
    There was a third, free plugin too, but its for DAZ Studio 3 and I don't remember how its called. Would have liked to try it too myself if there was a DAZ Studio 4 version.

    Jaderail said:
    Not any longer. Just Google Reality 2 and you will find it.

    out of curiosity, why doesnt daz sell it anymore?

    No way to know the real story. Paolo's products ceased to be sold here and he suddenly switched to Poser cheerleader mode after that. He left DAZ out of the list of stores he has good relations with (which is pretty obvious anyway).

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    well, I made the plunge. Wish me luck. Learning curves scare me, mostly because I tend to have 5 other software packages I should be learning ahead in line. But I'd really like to explore better lighting and renders and, no, long render times don't scare me per se. I wont be using it for garden variety renders, only on important ones I want to look their best.

    God I hope I can wrap my head around this lol

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited December 1969

    It can be a bit overwhelming at first. But its not hard.
    It will make things much easier for you in the long run. If you need help, people willcome to the rescue. :)

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited May 2013

    Hellboy said:
    It can be a bit overwhelming at first. But its not hard.
    It will make things much easier for you in the long run. If you need help, people willcome to the rescue. :)

    well, I just decided to try a simple test. No hair, no environment, props, clothes etc --just genesis with a skin map and ONE distant light.

    At 25 minutes, its still rendering lol. However, I have to say, its the absolute best these figures have ever looked. Im totally impressed.

    Question. I have win 7 X64 and an nvidia 295 card. should I use open cl or no open cl? Im using openCL atm. Is there anything I can do to speed up the renders?

    Post edited by Ademnus on
  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    It can be a bit overwhelming at first. But its not hard.
    It will make things much easier for you in the long run. If you need help, people willcome to the rescue. :)

    well, I just decided to try a simple test. No hair, no environment, props, clothes etc --just genesis with a skin map and ONE distant light.

    At 25 minutes, its still rendering lol. However, I have to say, its the absolute best these figures have ever looked. Im totally impressed.

    Question. I have win 7 X64 and an nvidia 295 card. should I use open cl or no open cl? Im using openCL atm. Is there anything I can do to speed up the renders?

    Well, I’ve dome images in 20 minutes, but get used to wait much more than that, lol. Something I like to use a lot are AreaLights (converting a prop to light source). A plane is usually enough. The bigger, the softer the shadow. Sometimes mixed with IBL.
    And ALWAYS, use the LuxRender interface as it lets you control the lighting while it renders.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18543/P420/#275939
    Not sure about the OpenCL question, I don’t know much about it.
    PD: Probably you know, but you can stop renders and resume them later.

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Hellboy said:
    It can be a bit overwhelming at first. But its not hard.
    It will make things much easier for you in the long run. If you need help, people willcome to the rescue. :)

    well, I just decided to try a simple test. No hair, no environment, props, clothes etc --just genesis with a skin map and ONE distant light.

    At 25 minutes, its still rendering lol. However, I have to say, its the absolute best these figures have ever looked. Im totally impressed.

    Question. I have win 7 X64 and an nvidia 295 card. should I use open cl or no open cl? Im using openCL atm. Is there anything I can do to speed up the renders?

    Well, I’ve dome images in 20 minutes, but get used to wait much more than that, lol. Something I like to use a lot are AreaLights (converting a prop to light source). A plane is usually enough. The bigger, the softer the shadow. Sometimes mixed with IBL.
    And ALWAYS, use the LuxRender interface as it lets you control the lighting while it renders.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18543/P420/#275939
    Not sure about the OpenCL question, I don’t know much about it.
    PD: Probably you know, but you can stop renders and resume them later.

    All I can say right now is; I have a lot to learn. I think I need to devote a day or 2 to learning the inner workings of all of this.

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    while I would never just use 1 light source, at least I might not have before, I just wanted a simple test.

    hairless, clothingless man standing in a simple pose; one spotlight.

    the first pic is using 3delight. the second, lux.

    Im in love.

    Granted, it took over an hour for an 800x5000 image and it actually wasnt done yet when i said, 'fine, thats enough," but I see the results are so striking I cannot wait to plumb its depths for all its secrets.

    luxtest1.jpg
    800 x 500 - 85K
    3dl.jpg
    800 x 500 - 55K
  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, its very adictive!
    I don't want to keep pushing this, but something tells me you'll like area lights a lot when you try them. I think those are what gives the best results by far. :D

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Yeah, its very adictive!
    I don't want to keep pushing this, but something tells me you'll like area lights a lot when you try them. I think those are what gives the best results by far. :D

    now, are we talking something inside Lux or the area lights in Studio light Pro?

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited May 2013

    No, its just a regular object that LuRender uses as light source. Usually a one polygon plane primitive since each polygon counts as a light source, meaning longer render times if you use a sphere or whatever.

    What are you using?
    If you use Luxus you select the plane's material, right click on the surfaces tab, and select "Luxus - LuxRender Material". Check the Light Parameters box and in the Ligh section of the material, turn "Enable" to ON.

    Now the plane will be a light in LuxRender. Adjust it's size for different results. :)

    The guy in my sig use one plane primitive as light source.

    Post edited by Hellboy on
  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    No, its just a regular object that LuRender uses as light source. Usually a one polygon plane primitive since each polygon counts as a light source, meaning longer render times if you use a sphere or whatever.

    What are you using?
    If you use Luxus you select the plane's material, right click on the surfaces tab, and select "Luxus - LuxRender Material". Check the Light Parameters box and in the Ligh section of the material, turn "Enable" to ON.

    Now the plane will be a light in LuxRender. Adjust it's size for different results. :)

    The guy in my sig use one plane primitive as light source.

    Oh I am so going to have to try this.

    There are so many possibilities too...

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited December 1969

    oh, another question. Once I send the scene to LUX and it begins rendering, can i close daz studio or compose a new scene within it?

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 686
    edited December 1969

    oh, another question. Once I send the scene to LUX and it begins rendering, can i close daz studio or compose a new scene within it?

    Sure! :-)
    I'm rendering right now and have not opened DAZ Studio today.

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 610
    edited May 2013

    Hellboy said:
    oh, another question. Once I send the scene to LUX and it begins rendering, can i close daz studio or compose a new scene within it?

    Sure! :-)
    I'm rendering right now and have not opened DAZ Studio today.

    that's stunning. I mean, as it is, luz is zero drain on my system, unlike ds4. Im blown away.

    Tiny problem. I made the plane, as you said, ticked off the right boxes and buttons as you directed, and this is what I got.

    the second image is how it looks in preview. I tried it twice, second time I added white ambient to the plane thinking that was the problem, but both ended up with the same results.

    luxhelp2.jpg
    800 x 500 - 82K
    luxhelp1.jpg
    800 x 500 - 79K
    Post edited by Ademnus on
  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 2,897
    edited December 1969

    Not wanting to push too much down your throat at once, but go check out callad's free Reality=based lighting props at ShareCG they are really rather very good!

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