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Posted: 27 April 2013 06:09 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I just realized something interesting. Build a scene and save it and you will find the .car to be close to 3 times the size of the elements that make up a scene.
Why would saving as a .car almost triple the scene size?

Example. I have a simple scene, 2 objects, 2 textures. the folder they are in is 18meg. Load those elements to a scene and save as a .car and the .car is 58meg. big surprise

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Posted: 27 April 2013 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Hi Stan smile

If you’re choosing to save the assets “Internally” then Carrara will take your models,., and save them as vertex objects, which shouldn’t make it much bigger than the original; model unless it also loads a bunch of Morph shapes from other folders,. in which case those will be embedded too…, but the biggest hit will come with images.
Carrara will convert any images used in your shaders to HIGH quality (carrara’s own internal format)..similar to TIFF,.  High quality plus alpha.

so,... if you’re using a jpg,. (which is a compressed format) then that image will become several times larger when it’s saved internally.

It’s only a good idea to save internally if you’re transferring a scene to a system which doesn’t have access to the Models or images,.. And,. you have no other method of transferring the scene assets,.. such as a USB stick

it’s often easier, and smaller,. to save the file normally,. then save a Zip folder with your models, images, video clips etc…

smile

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Posted: 27 April 2013 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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This is my stage stage lol LS 9b stage. I use for checking clothes, poses and such. The way it stands I may be better off just saving the carrara scene gray scale, then include the jpegs to be applied by the user.  It’s for the carraracafe and I have to keep the size down.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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3DAGE - 27 April 2013 06:55 AM

Carrara will convert any images used in your shaders to HIGH quality (carrara’s own internal format)..similar to TIFF,.  High quality plus alpha.

so,... if you’re using a jpg,. (which is a compressed format) then that image will become several times larger when it’s saved internally.

Wow… good to know!

Stan, it doesn’t look like there are too many textures to apply… Is there a way to put the textures in the folder and use Save As to get the internal/external/local settings? And set it up to point to those textures in the shader room?

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Posted: 27 April 2013 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 27 April 2013 09:19 AM
3DAGE - 27 April 2013 06:55 AM

Carrara will convert any images used in your shaders to HIGH quality (carrara’s own internal format)..similar to TIFF,.  High quality plus alpha.

so,... if you’re using a jpg,. (which is a compressed format) then that image will become several times larger when it’s saved internally.

Wow… good to know!

Stan, it doesn’t look like there are too many textures to apply… Is there a way to put the textures in the folder and use Save As to get the internal/external/local settings? And set it up to point to those textures in the shader room?

Actually, if you set the whole thing to use a structure, even if that structure is a single “ManStan Stage” folder, for example, you can put everything into the structure and save externally - so long as the structure remains true after installation.

That sounded weird. It’s the same as if you were making a freebie for Poser. So if you want to make several over many years, it’s a good idea to set up your own structure where you save and then distribute your stuff.

In Carrara, products should use this:

Textures

Carrara install folder > Presets > Textures > ManStan > Stage (if you keep separate folders for individual products, it’ll be easier to put into the distribution zip)

Objects

Here you can either go inside of a category already created by Native Content (you won’t have to tell people where to find the folder to “Add”), or make your own and tell people which folder to add. If you place all of your future objects within a ManStan folder - even if there are more folders inside of it, when they add the “ManStan” folder, everything installed there afterwards will immediately become visible.

Carrara install folder > Presets > Objects

Just a quick example smile

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Posted: 27 April 2013 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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well. hmm. saving externally gives me 60meg of TFFs. So I see why the .car is so big. 3DAGE is right as usual lol

Ok I dropped the texture from the shaders and set them to color. Saved all external, the folder has the jpegs; texture/normal, and objects. zipped it’s now 6meg. talk about file bloat.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Good tips Dart!

I was just zipping a folder, I never thought of having a “standardized” installation for my freebies.

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Posted: 27 April 2013 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Just to add to what Dart said,..

Scenes for carrara should be built (or assembled for distribution) in a folder within Carrara’s..  / Presets / Scenes
you can create a sub-folder of your scene folder called textures, to store any images used in the scene.

so,. in Stan’s example it would be :

Carrara / Presets / Scenes / ManStan / Set scene / Textures

that makes it easier to pack and share the scene folder, with the textures in a sub-folder

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Posted: 27 April 2013 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I make mine more like what you’d get from a purchased product for poser:

I prefer “Not” to have people need to “Add Folder” to find my stuff. So I use the categories found within the structure predefined by the Native Content. So for Starry Skies for Carrara, I made a “Starry Skies” folder within the “InSpace” folder, within the Carrara > Scenes folder. I’ll put my new stuff under the “Dartanbeck” heading, so it would have been: Carrara > Scenes > InSpace > Dartanbeck > Starry Skies.

All textures go to Presets > Textures

All Leaves go to Data > Plants > Leaves

All plants go to Presets > Plants > Basic > Dartanbeck

Objects go to Presets > Objects > pick the best category > Dartanbeck

It’s not a bad thing to ask Carraraists to “Add a Folder” to their browser. All other products do that. I was nervous when I became a Daz3d Published Artist. I combed through the “Rules” of being such a thing very carefully. I ended up changing the way Starry Skies installed because those instructions state that Daz3d prefers that you keep things tidy and within subfolders already available. Now that is the most sensible way for me to see it happening. Clips and so forth have no Native Content directory - oyou have to ask the user to Add something, some where.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Well I’m against standardized instillation. I like everything for an object in one folder. Much like has been done in most every other app through the ages. I will set my items up to work from with in a “manstan ent.” folder, but where that folder is installed to, wont matter. So it can be placed where you like and still work. But I can see about making sure that the readyme explains where they should be; scenes in the scenes folder and shaders in the shader folder.

The issue I am having now is even a simple scene is to big to upload to the carraracafe. 6meg is too big. I did a realistic hair texture for the V4 girl hair a while back, thought I would put it up. 10meg, wont go. And I have already had to sacrifice quality going from png to jpg. 

Most of the work I do in carrara is textures/shaders. And being a Genetica enthusiast, I make a lot of textures. Especial beta testing the direct object texturing. Yes, the new Genetica in beta now can make seamless textures based on the object uvmaping, on the object in Genetica. It’s fun stuff grin


If I had been doing the set up for Poser, there would be no need of an object folder or a texture folder, they would be in the folder with the item.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I’m working on a complex terrain set. I started as Andy and Dart suggested and set up a folder specifically for the scene I’m working on. I’ve tried to use as many procedural shaders a possible, but I have had to use texture maps. I also needed distribution maps, so there’s a sub folder for those things. I made objects, so I’ve created a folder for those. If the end user wishes to add the folder with the objects his browser, he/she can do so, or he/she could just drop items from the scene in their own categories. Here’s a screen shot of my folder, along with the unzipped size and for comparison, the zipped size of the folder.


Oh yeah, the scene is saved locally with no compression.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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ManStan - 28 April 2013 06:45 AM

If I had been doing the set up for Poser, there would be no need of an object folder or a texture folder, they would be in the folder with the item.


I don’t know about that….


The basic runtime structure has a top folder for Textures, Geometry and Library. The textures are where all the image maps are stored, the geometry is where the .obj files are stored and the library is where Poser looks for the .cr2s (or whatever) and those in turn reference the textures and objects at the top of level of the runtime.


For what it’s worth Stan, I prefer to do as you do, and keep the assets in one folder. The user can place the things where they wish, or not. My next task aside from a few refinements is to write a read-me file.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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If I had been doing the set up for Poser, there would be no need of an
object folder or a texture folder, they would be in the folder with the
item.

No Stan,.. the Poser Runtime folder has folders where ALL textures from ALL products have to be placed (Daz3D and Studio) still use this Runtime /Textures folder

Also, (In Poser),.. the Geometry of your model needs to be located in a ( “Runtime / geometry / product”) folder structure,

the concept of making a folder which contains everything,. can be but where the user has to work out how to get the product to function,... is not going to work well.

Making a product for Carrara should be much easier since,. you make and save the (objects, shaders, and textures) in the same folder,. which can be zipped and shared.


You should have a look at setting up a Drop-box account,. or ShareCG account,...(both Free) then you can upload your large product file there,. and place a link to that on the Cafe site

 

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Posted: 28 April 2013 09:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Although I don’t have Poser installed to confirm this, I believe you’re mistaken. The Poser file formats use full or relative paths to point to external resources which can reside anywhere. The runtime structure with the Geometries and Textures is just a convention.

Older versions of Poser expected to find content (figures, poses, props) in their appropriate folders, but that is no longer the case.

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Posted: 28 April 2013 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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ManStan - 28 April 2013 06:45 AM

Well I’m against standardized instillation. I like everything for an object in one folder. Much like has been done in most every other app through the ages. I will set my items up to work from with in a “manstan ent.” folder, but where that folder is installed to, wont matter. So it can be placed where you like and still work. But I can see about making sure that the readyme explains where they should be; scenes in the scenes folder and shaders in the shader folder.

The issue I am having now is even a simple scene is to big to upload to the carraracafe. 6meg is too big. I did a realistic hair texture for the V4 girl hair a while back, thought I would put it up. 10meg, wont go. And I have already had to sacrifice quality going from png to jpg. 

Most of the work I do in carrara is textures/shaders. And being a Genetica enthusiast, I make a lot of textures. Especial beta testing the direct object texturing. Yes, the new Genetica in beta now can make seamless textures based on the object uvmaping, on the object in Genetica. It’s fun stuff grin


If I had been doing the set up for Poser, there would be no need of an object folder or a texture folder, they would be in the folder with the item.

Not a problen in the least - for you can simply place everything in one folder. Call it anything you want, and then just tell folks to “Add FGolder” and tell Carrara where it is. The thing is, where ever everything is going to be when you distribute it has to be the same as where it was when you saved it - then users of Carrara will have no troubles. smile

Looks really cool, by the way!

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Posted: 28 April 2013 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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araneldon - 28 April 2013 09:54 AM

Although I don’t have Poser installed to confirm this, I believe you’re mistaken. The Poser file formats use full or relative paths to point to external resources which can reside anywhere. The runtime structure with the Geometries and Textures is just a convention.

Older versions of Poser expected to find content (figures, poses, props) in their appropriate folders, but that is no longer the case.

This is absolutely true.
Conventions are created to make it easier on the individuals using the products.
I, for one, cannot stand it when people break that convention out of ignorance. It’s so easy, neat and clean.
When you like to keep tabs on what you have on your computer, you don’t want programs installing themselves where you cannot easily find them - same goes for runtimes. If there is a problem - and the software asks where this texture file is - how do you find it if you don’t follow the convention set forth before you? Chances are, you won’t. You then go back and try to delete the junk, because you can’t make it work.

Carrara is cool, because you can add any folder to any part of the browser. So you can just do what you want with freebies.

I was just illustrating a good way of doing in to stay in conformity with the good conventions laid before us. It’s easy and it works. Above all else - it’s being courteous to those who wish to install and use it.

The “ReadMe’s” folder, found directly next to the runtime folder, was actually introduced by DAZ3D. I’ve used that spot for creating my own readmes ever since, because it was just such a good thing to do - rather than spreading it all over who knows where. Yes, I create my own readmes for my own personal recollection. You never know… I may need them some day. But others, who may have been creating content for Poser before Daz3d, may wish that Daz would have stuck to the original Docs folder… So who’s to say who’s right? Just the people deciding whether or not to install it.

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