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OpenSubDiv Testing and Discussion Thread
Posted: 23 April 2013 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Okay, I’ve been testing OpenSubDiv (OSD) edge creasing.

And I’m thrilled by it…

I have discovered one thing interesting.  If you have your subdivision level set to 1 (4 quads per polygon), it appears that all edge creasing settings, 1-5, are identical.  The top image below shows this.  The subdivision is at level 1.  The upper left vertex and the lower front edge are each creased, left to right, from 1-5.  I see no difference in the resulting polygon position in any of those.

But with higher subdivision levels you will see differences, such as what show in the lower image in which the cubes are Subdivided to level 5 (4 to the power of 5 quads per polygon) with edge creasing, left to right, to levels 1,2,3,4,5 on the bottom edge and the upper left corner.

The tools for edge creasing are in the Tools Tab with Polygon Group Editor selected.

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Posted: 23 April 2013 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Okay, here’s another test.  This one was to see what it looked like with the corners and the verts creased to levels 1-5.  The bottom edge is so set.  I like the subtlety of the creases… I just wish I could get the same subtly at lower subdiv settings, but that may not be possible…

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Posted: 23 April 2013 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Did you try rendering those? The division parameter, as far as I am aware, controls only the viewport preview.

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Posted: 23 April 2013 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I did not render those… but I will now… give me a little bit.

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Posted: 23 April 2013 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I simply did NOT think to render.  Here’s the results.

This is as SubDiv Level 1!!!! Same Vertexes ad the first set of renders are selected, but only four quads per poly.  On the left, the top left poly is set to a weight of 1 as well as the bottom edge.  On the right, both are set to 5.

WOW… WOW…

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Posted: 23 April 2013 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I wanted to get this up, I originally put it on my DA Blog, but it’s relevant, so I’ll repost it here:

For those of you who are unaware, and I’m sure there are more than a few, OpenSubDiv (OSD) http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/ is about to become the new subdivision standard (there really wasn’t one before) in the 3D Industry.

It’s being pushed by three giants: Pixar, AutoDesk and Microsoft. AutoDesk owns and produceds AutoCAD, 3DStudioMax (3dsmacks), SoftImage (XSI) and Maya. In other words, it owns a huge chunk of the high end 3D application industry, the other two need no introduction from me.  So don’t bother to argue with me: OpenSubDiv is about to become the standard, and any software that does not implement it will be rendered obsolete

Neil Blevins http://www.neilblevins.com/ is a professional 3D and 2D artist who has worked for Blur Studios as a jack of all trades artist and a Modeller/Animator for Pixar Studios.  He is proficient in 3DSmacks, Maya, Mudbox, ZBrush and other 3D Aplications and Pixar chose to publish his blog on OpenSubDiv on the official OpenSubDiv website: http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/

The following blog is by Neil Blevins, who graciously allowed me to re-publish it.

________________________________________

Pixar’s OpenSubdiv Initiative, And How It Can Help You
By Neil Blevins
Aug 26th 2012

Back in 1978, Ed Catmull (now president of Pixar animation studios) and Jim Clark (founder of SGI and Netscape) came up with the Catmull-Clark subdivision method. This was a method for subdividing polygonal geometry (and subdividing any associated Uv sets) into smooth surfaces. Later, in 1998, Tony DeRose (now Director of R&D at Pixar) created a method for defining crease values on edges and vertexes as a way to allow for hard edges on a smooth surface. The method has in many ways revolutionized our way of modeling over the last decade, replacing nurbs as the go to method for modeling in the film industry.

The problem was this. While the base subdivision method from 1978 was freely available, the creasing, texture evaluation, and some other aspects were patented and available for license. But instead of licensing the technology, every major 3d package decided instead to either avoid these features or create their own versions when implementing subdiv surfaces, versions that were incompatible with everyone else’s subdivision method. This wasn’t a huge deal at the beginning, since maya folk tended to stay in maya, and 3dsmax folk tended to stay in max. But in today’s modern pipeline, there’s a lot more asset swapping between packages, especially between sculpting packages such as mudbox and zbrush and the major 3d apps. All of a sudden, all of those incompatible subdivision methods weren’t talking to each other, and moving an asset became an exercise in frustration (and artifacts).

(Image Examples on the Neil Blevin’s Original Blog: http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/blevins_opensubdiv.html )

In the last few years, Pixar has worked with a number of major 3d packages to adopt the full catmull clark method, and programs like maya, mudbox and modo have become completely compliant, and hence, it’s far easier to move assets between those 3 packages.

At this year’s Siggraph, Pixar has announced the “OpenSubdiv” initiative. This will release to the public in open source fashion, a subdiv library that can be integrated into any 3d package. This is the actual code that Pixar uses, all of it, and the license terms include a free license to all the patents. So if adopted, this free subdivision method can be implemented by all of the major 3d packages, sculpting packages and renderers, and we’ll finally be able to move our assets between any of these packages without worrying about subdiv incompatibility. In some cases, it will even let people use subdivs where they couldn’t before, because their package’s implementation wasn’t up to snuff.

If you’re a programmer, then the actual Open source may be of use to you here: https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/OpenSubdiv/

But if you’re an artist, there’s an important way for your to participate as well. The ability to seamlessly move subdivs between 3d apps will only happen if those applications implement OpenSubdiv. And that will only happen if the community demands it from their software. So I highly recommend to contact the people behind your favorite applications and ask them to incorporate this method in their software. And I mean everyone: 3dsmax, maya, xsi, houdini, zbrush, mudbox, vray, arnold, etc. Make sure that everyone knows that the public wants this, and having compatible subdivision surfaces will allow more people to use their software, and will allow their software to be used in facilities that could never use it before.

With your help, we can finally put these days of incompatibility behind us, stop worrying about fighting our software, and worry about making great art instead. A huge thanks to all those at Pixar who helped make this happen. Now it’s your turn to take the next step.
(Copyright 2012 to Neil Blevins)
________________________________________


After having read this blog, I managed to contact Neil and quite giddily emailed him a gushing note about how those of us who use D|S are getting OpenSubDiv implemented and those of us using the DAZ Studio 4.5.2.40 Beta get to play with it.

Neil’s idea is clear: we need this for a more transparent pipeline and a smoother work flow.  Geometries should be predictable from the first polygon to the last, and OSD will give us this.

For my part, there is no doubt in my mind that OSD is about to become the goto standard in the 3D industry, it’s just a matter of how long it will take.  Thank goodnes MY favourite platform is well on its way to getting that done!  Is yours?   I’ll just leave you with two words from Neil Blevins: “Demand It!”

Keep and eye on that same blog on Neil’s Website as he has indicated that any news he has on this topic will be updated there: http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/opensubdiv_intro/opensubdiv_intro.htm

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Hi wancow…

Great idea starting this thread… grin  and for getting permission to re-post that article…

I had read it back in Sept - Oct sometime, and it’s good information for those here wondering what the to-do is on Open….

It’s great news for those that have or work with all of the “high-end” or pricier software and even better news for those of us that use Daz Studio…. wink

The bad news though, is that for those of us that use Blender in our workflow, OSD will not be available as it currently stands… confused The license used by OSD is not compatible with the GPL version of Blender… but there is a ray of hope, the heads at Pixar really want OSD in Blender and are trying to work out a way to make the licensing work. The BF is waiting to see what they come up with….

In the mean time though, Blenders SubD is very similar to OSD, mainly just the crease weights are not as good and it lacks some of the other OSD goodies… but it is workable…

If I have time latter tonight, I will run some tests on a few SubD meshes I have in Blender and see how well they translate in DS in their original low poly forms…

nicci… smile

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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blender to D|S tests will be UBER helpful!

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I’ve heard the same about the licensing issue with GPL causing problems for including OpenSubDiv in LuxRender as well.  So if they solve it for Blender, then hopefully the solution also works for LuxRender.

What about Ptex?  I would have thought it was the same license, but there is Ptex for Blender.  Or is that done by someone else and not ‘official’?

Is there a definitive thread that discussed the GPL issue with the Microsoft license that Pixar used for OSD?  Or at least a summary somewhere of what the issue is?

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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All I know about PTEX is what it does, and that it was developed by Disney.  I don’t know that Pixar was ever involved with it.

It appears that, unlike OpenSubDiv, it is not an open standard, but that Disney retains full rights to it: http://ptex.us/

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I guess I assumed that Disney really meant Pixar, since they own Pixar.  And Pixar would be their main 3D animation branch.

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Hi…

There are several threads in the various Blender forums discussing the issues… sorry I don’t have links ATM… and I don’t confess to fully understanding all of the various license types and issues, but basically Blender uses GPL v2 and the provisions of that are not compatible with MPL… GPL v3 is compatible with MPL but it is not possible for Blender to change to v3

Ton even discussed it in some posts in some threads, and that he has talked to those in charge at Pixar about the issues, it’s now up to Pixar to find the solution….

As for PTex in Blender… that was a side project by the developer of Cycles back in 2010… his initial builds only had it working in the 2.5 viewport using OGL and it completely replaced the vertex paint feature for his tests…. he never got it incorporated into the BI renderer and abandoned the project we he began Cycles development full time…. also I think the license problem came up too…

You could try a google search of the BlenderNation blogs or BlenderArtist forums for more info on the license issues with OSD as those two had the most relevant discussions on the specifics of the GPL and MPL…

nicci… smile

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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That may be true about Pixar being their main animation branch, but I don’t think Tangled was a Pixar production, and that was the first major film to use it.

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Posted: 23 April 2013 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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niccipb - 23 April 2013 06:55 PM

Hi…

There are several threads in the various Blender forums discussing the issues… sorry I don’t have links ATM… and I don’t confess to fully understanding all of the various license types and issues, but basically Blender uses GPL v2 and the provisions of that are not compatible with MPL… GPL v3 is compatible with MPL but it is not possible for Blender to change to v3

I don’t understand the problem.  All Pixar has to do is issue a special licence to Blender… haven’t they thought of that yet?

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Posted: 23 April 2013 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Hi…

wancow - 23 April 2013 06:59 PM
niccipb - 23 April 2013 06:55 PM

Hi…

There are several threads in the various Blender forums discussing the issues… sorry I don’t have links ATM… and I don’t confess to fully understanding all of the various license types and issues, but basically Blender uses GPL v2 and the provisions of that are not compatible with MPL… GPL v3 is compatible with MPL but it is not possible for Blender to change to v3

I don’t understand the problem.  All Pixar has to do is issue a special licence to Blender… haven’t they thought of that yet?

When Pixar gave their presentation at Siggraph, the presenters went to the Blender booth shortly after and they were all eager to get things rolling… the license issue was one of the first things discussed and the folks from Pixar were pretty confident in being able to make some kind of exception for Blender…

move forward a few days…. Pixar informed the BF that they were having discussions on the matter…  ( code for - the lawyers have problems with it )

The biggest problem is that Pixar is only part of the equation… Microsoft R&D played a big role in the developed of the OSD platform and the license is handled by Microsoft through MPL ( Microsoft Public License )

So bottom line is, no matter how much Pixar want’s OSD to be available to Blender, if Microsoft say no then it’s a no….

nicci… smile

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Posted: 23 April 2013 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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OH!  Microsoft… hmmm… I did not know that part…

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