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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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linvanchene - 18 April 2013 08:26 AM

The thing most people who enter contests really care about is to have an opportunity to show their work.

The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0’s product, which was based on shaders native to DS. Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.

So it’s not really about the tools, it’s you have to use the product as everyone else is.

 

 

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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Well I got the intention of the contest incorrect aswell, I thought it was about the product, the tights, which include shaders. I didn’t realise that it was just about the shaders, I better go and remove my entry.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Don’t remove your render. The rules is this as stated in the thread

Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form. Use of add-on packs for pantyhose are optional if you have them but is not a requirement. Can be combined with shader usage if you wish.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Page 3 already?  Spicy!

Ah yes, if only the rules of the game were matched to our strengths, life would be so much easier.

I’ve never won a competition in my life… correction; I’ve never won an art competition in my life, but I don’t keep whining about it - Sometimes there’s just no accounting for taste tongue wink

I just pick myself up, shake the dust off, give ‘em the proverbial two-fingered salute, and marvel at how ahead of my time I must be while wasting no time in moving onto my next piece of pure brilliance.
LOL LOL LOL

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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Zev0 - 18 April 2013 08:41 AM

Don’t remove your render. The rules is this as stated in the thread

Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form. Use of add-on packs for pantyhose are optional if you have them but is not a requirement. Can be combined with shader usage if you wish.

Zev0, but if only pantyhose could be used and it doesn’t matter what shaders on them are, it doesn’t matter if those are DS shaders or not, i.e. it doesn’t matter what engine rendered those shaders if they aren’t from original product.

I mean, if the contest was about shaders for specific product to make render engine limitation as important as you said, then DS shaders for this product would be mandatory. If those shaders aren’t mandatory and we can render only geometry of pantyhose with any sort of shader on, the reason for engine limitation is blurry. I don’t understand your priorities with this content.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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linvanchene - 18 April 2013 08:51 AM
Male-M3dia - 18 April 2013 08:35 AM
linvanchene - 18 April 2013 08:26 AM

The thing most people who enter contests really care about is to have an opportunity to show their work.

The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0’s product, which was based on shaders native to DS. Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.

So it’s not really about the tools, it’s you have to use the product as everyone else is.

 

I agree that I failed to understand what the contest was about.

I tried to explain with my tidbit a few posts back about the product not only consisting of the “shader” but also of textures and geometry why it came to that confusion.

Edited to remove obsolete information.

- - -

Again this thread does not need to keep riding around on that one specific contest.

We still can keep talking about contests in general.


But I can see how it is difficult to keep the general idea and the specific example appart.

 

I’m still not sure I understand what prompted this thread in the first place. By your own admission you use Daz Studio to work in, which comes pre-installed with the 3Delight render engine. Thus it can’t be discriminating against you, as was implied in previous posts, since you’re more than capable of submitting an legal entry. If you were a Poser user, and thus only had Firefly or Luxrender available to you, I might have understood and loaned a sympathetic ear.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Male-M3dia - 18 April 2013 08:35 AM

The problem with this (and what prompted your thread), is that you failed to understand what the contest was about, which was to show zev0’s product, which was based on shaders native to DS.

In truth, that’s what pretty much every ‘contest’ here at DAZ is—a marketing/promotion gimick, not really a contest.  They can be fun, but I’ve never entered a single one because they invariably have far too many silly restrictions (the one that is the biggest show-stopper for me is the requirement to post the render to the DAZ forum thread for the contest only and nowhere else; I will never, ever upload a render to the DAZ forums).

Male-M3dia - 18 April 2013 08:35 AM

Since shaders are pretty much specific to a renderer, I would think remaking the shaders for another renderer (thus changing the product) would pretty much be out of bounds for this contest.

As it happens, though, these shaders convert pretty well to other renderers like LuxRender, since they’re still based pretty heavily on the DAZ Default Shader.  One could easily twist this argument around and say that showing the ease at which the shaders are used in other tools like LuxRender is infact a bigger promotional effect for the product, as it lets folks that primarily use an external renderer know they can make good use of Sheer Greatness.  Sure, they won’t look exactly the same as they do in Studio, but I don’t think that matters.  Folks want to know if they can reasonably use the product in their renderer of choice without having to do a lot of work to shoehorn it in.

When I saw Zev0’s contest post and the first thing it said was no external renderers like LuxRender, I ignored the rest of the post and haven’t even subscribed to that thread to see what all renders people come up with.  It was an instant turn off.  I don’t use 3Delight.  Restricting the contest to 3Delight only doesn’t make it a “fun challenge” for me; I have zero interest in trying to learn how to light/etc for 3Delight and any render I might manage before the 15th would look like utter poo as you cannot really properly learn a renderer in only a month’s time.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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edited…

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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cwichura - 18 April 2013 09:00 AM

In truth, that’s what pretty much every ‘contest’ here at DAZ is—a marketing/promotion gimick, not really a contest.  They can be fun, but I’ve never entered a single one because they invariably have far too many silly restrictions (the one that is the biggest show-stopper for me is the requirement to post the render to the DAZ forum thread for the contest only and nowhere else; I will never, ever upload a render to the DAZ forums).

And that’s not every contest that’s ever been done? Contest market something, draw attention to something, bring something to a site. Contests are done for something… always.

And that, every contest has rules… and wouldn’t think it would be silly for a site to not want their users running to another site to look at a picture and drawing website traffic there.

cwichura - 18 April 2013 09:00 AM

As it happens, though, these shaders convert pretty well to other renderers like LuxRender, since they’re still based pretty heavily on the DAZ Default Shader.  One could easily twist this argument around and say that showing the ease at which the shaders are used in other tools like LuxRender is infact a bigger promotional effect for the product, as it lets folks that primarily use an external renderer know they can make good use of Sheer Greatness.  Sure, they won’t look exactly the same as they do in Studio, but I don’t think that matters.  Folks want to know if they can reasonably use the product in their renderer of choice without having to do a lot of work to shoehorn it in.

Still you’re violating contest rules by changing the product; converting to another format or renderer would fall under that. If the product had shaders for another renderer, then I can see that renderer being used in the contest. You really can’t be upset because someone one wants the contest to be fair by everyone using the same product unaltered.

cwichura - 18 April 2013 09:00 AM

When I saw Zev0’s contest post and the first thing it said was no external renderers like LuxRender, I ignored the rest of the post and haven’t even subscribed to that thread to see what all renders people come up with.  It was an instant turn off.  I don’t use 3Delight.  Restricting the contest to 3Delight only doesn’t make it a “fun challenge” for me; I have zero interest in trying to learn how to light/etc for 3Delight and any render I might manage before the 15th would look like utter poo as you cannot really properly learn a renderer in only a month’s time.

Unforunately the product uses 3Delight-compatible shaders, so changing those shaders would not be fair to those using the product as is… which was really the point of the contest.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Male-M3dia - 18 April 2013 09:26 AM

Unforunately the product uses 3Delight-compatible shaders, so changing those shaders would not be fair to those using the product as is… which was really the point of the contest.

Yes, but Zev0 said that shaders aren’t even mandatory, it is either pantyhose and/OR shaders. So if I render just pantyhose, with my own materials in Luxis, what kind of change to original shaders do I do?

I understand the reason for engine limitation and yes, I think 3Dlight limitation is more fair to everybody who can’t spend $$ for fancy plugins but organizers of the contest have to work on wording/reasoning a bit more.

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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LOL but I am so hearing “Don’t get your knickers in a twist!” here. wink

The rules of the contest currently specified are fine. It IS common to have a common denominator somewhere used as a base, and in this case we have it the render engine. As said by others, that is a great equalizer.

Reason I am laughing so hard at all this ‘hissy-fitting’ is memory of a guild art contest I attempted to enter once. The topic was “Paint and Clay”, rules being your entry MUST consist of one medium or both. So I did a few things, clay masks and sculptures painted up since that was my style at the time. Well, nothing was accepted by the judges which can happen. Only when it was time to return and walk the hall of the chosen…it was mostly photography. And woven reed baskets, some hanging textiles without even a clay bead in sight. Basically, no one who created anything using paint and clay even got into this focused exhibit of Paint and Clay artwork due to judge’s personal whim. It ‘annoyed’ to say the least. wink

I also recall some render contests not joined (or here) which gave specific rules, the majority of folks doing their fun best to keep inside the parameters only to have the one who didn’t win the contest. Judge’s whim.

Basically, there are reasonable things out there to be teeth gritting at when it comes to contests, and this is certainly not one of them.

Cheers and get back to having fun!
MJ out. wink

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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Posted: 18 April 2013 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Zev0 - 18 April 2013 09:36 AM

I will see if we can allow that Kattey for non shader use.  Will review all this later..

What do you mean “allow”? Those are your own words that either geometry and/OR shaders must be featured. Geometry/pantyhose only renders are already allowed by rules.
“Main product must be used. Use of Pantyhose And\Or shader must be used in some form.”

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