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Posted: 09 May 2013 06:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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vitachick - 08 May 2013 11:14 AM

I have various items in my cart.  Haven’t purchased from Daz since they started version4. (works now)

Just wondering….If I check out will there be any problems???

Well check out was ok but Look At My Hair isn’t working in 4.5.. Have
contacted the vendor.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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OK I’m really feeling stupd here. I just got DAZ/Poster etc recently (end of March). I was constantly being nagged to use the “new”  DAZ Install Manager, so I did. But just lately the products I buy don’t show up as “ready for download” for up to a day or so. Mostly were for characters/materials, etc. 

Today I bought Cararra as I’m fed up with going back and forth between DAZ and HEX… HEX hangs all the time. I’m a newbie so it’s probably my fault, but anyways, Cararra seems to do it all and will give it a fair go.

My problem is….Cararra hasn’t shown up in my DIM all day! It’s in my Product Library so I manually downloaded it and am OK. The DIM worked great when it worked, but how long do you have to wait for the files to appear?  The email I get which says my order is complete says to IMMEDIATELY download my new files with DIM. What’s going on? Is it the DIM that is being dumped and we are to use Product Library? If so then they should remove that DIM reminder from the receipt emails for purchases.

Cheers….. perhaps it’s something I am doing wrong, so please tell me if it’s me!

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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DIM only works for content, not for programs, which is why Carrara wouldn’t have shown up in it.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Arrrgghhhhh…. they need to put a note on their header then that it’s only for content. It looks like a one-size-fits-all utility from this email.
So DIM is going to stay ...


Thanks so much.  Silene

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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laurenwbr - 09 May 2013 09:38 AM

Arrrgghhhhh…. they need to put a note on their header then that it’s only for content. It looks like a one-size-fits-all utility from this email.
So DIM is going to stay ...


Thanks so much.  Silene

DIM does look as if it will stay, at least until something better comes along. Although with the way so many are used to running very customized runtime setups I have a feeling many will opt to download files manually from the Product Library. The big change for them is they will have slightly smaller file sizes since no space is taken up for the installer routine. So it’ll save them on drive space. The down side is that so far the DIM doesn’t appear to be using any quick way for users to determine if they in fact have the latest version and this will be very frustrating for those same folks who like to do things their way. If so then Daz will start hearing a lot of complaints soon if they’re not hearing them already. I don’t see why it should be an issue and daz couldn’t just use the same naming convention before which did indicate version number, I mean all you’re doing is changing the file extension from .exe to .zip

As to the issue you had yeah the DIM only handles content which is best since people also like to have control over where programs are installed for performance reasons. Also as I understand it the DIM is currently only installing Daz Studio and Poser content and that for now it won’t install content for Carrara or Bryce.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 10:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

The down side is that so far the DIM doesn’t appear to be using any quick way for users to determine if they in fact have the latest version and this will be very frustrating for those same folks who like to do things their way. If so then Daz will start hearing a lot of complaints soon if they’re not hearing them already. I don’t see why it should be an issue and daz couldn’t just use the same naming convention before which did indicate version number, I mean all you’re doing is changing the file extension from .exe to .zip

I have a feature-request bug note up about it, just waiting to see if I get a useful reply. Apparently changing the file name to track version changes breaks DIM’s ability to know that an updated file is the same product as an older file. Fingers crossed — I’ll be extremely dischuffed if the only way to handle this is to install DIM.  mad

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

Although with the way so many are used to running very customized runtime setups I have a feeling many will opt to download files manually from the Product Library.

You can just use DIM to download.

LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

The down side is that so far the DIM doesn’t appear to be using any quick way for users to determine if they in fact have the latest version and this will be very frustrating for those same folks who like to do things their way.

Do you mean if stuff they installed with the old installers is up to date?  Yes, a perpetual problem.  What I’ve done is install using the installer and the DIM zip to dummy locations and compare them—found quite a few updates I didn’t know about.  After that, you can either (a) install to a dummy location with DIM—you can then delete the dummy location and DIM will still know if you have the latest, or (b) keep the downloads in DIM’s download folder.  Either way, DIM will then let you know if there are updates.

LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

If so then Daz will start hearing a lot of complaints soon if they’re not hearing them already. I don’t see why it should be an issue and daz couldn’t just use the same naming convention before which did indicate version number, I mean all you’re doing is changing the file extension from .exe to .zip

I’ve asked for this, although given how rife with errors the file naming approach has been, I’m happy to have DIM’s checksum-based system.

LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

As to the issue you had yeah the DIM only handles content which is best since people also like to have control over where programs are installed for performance reasons. Also as I understand it the DIM is currently only installing Daz Studio and Poser content and that for now it won’t install content for Carrara or Bryce.

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/install_manager/change_log

 

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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SpottedKitty - 09 May 2013 10:12 PM

Apparently changing the file name to track version changes breaks DIM’s ability to know that an updated file is the same product as an older file.

No, it doesn’t—I’ve seen many DIM updates with changes to the zip file names.  I think they just don’t want to waste time (and users disk space, if they keep the zips) with an error-prone manual system when there’s a much better automatic system.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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fixmypcmike - 10 May 2013 05:49 AM
LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

Although with the way so many are used to running very customized runtime setups I have a feeling many will opt to download files manually from the Product Library.

You can just use DIM to download.

The point wasn’t about how to download though it was about trusting the DIM to install for you. So yeah you could use DIM to just download but I’m inclined to believe that if it’s an issue of having control as I suspect it is for many, then they’ll be more inclined to use the Product Library. Now if the day comes that the Product Library option is taken away from customers then those people may start using DIM to download but I suspect the type of people I’m talking about will resent being forced to do something differently then they used to be able to do and preferred.

fixmypcmike - 10 May 2013 05:49 AM
LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

The down side is that so far the DIM doesn’t appear to be using any quick way for users to determine if they in fact have the latest version and this will be very frustrating for those same folks who like to do things their way.

Do you mean if stuff they installed with the old installers is up to date?  Yes, a perpetual problem.  What I’ve done is install using the installer and the DIM zip to dummy locations and compare them—found quite a few updates I didn’t know about.  After that, you can either (a) install to a dummy location with DIM—you can then delete the dummy location and DIM will still know if you have the latest, or (b) keep the downloads in DIM’s download folder.  Either way, DIM will then let you know if there are updates.

Not necessarily stuff that is installed. To illustrate an example I’ll talk about how I used to do things and how this impacts me. Every so often things happen that I have to rebuild my runtime. I like to have just one central runtime under poser although another runtime is created for Studio. I rarely use that though since most of the time when I use Studio I can just access things from the Poser Runtime with Studio (after I’ve let Studio look on my drives for content). Given the size of my collection and how big my runtime gets with everything installed I’ve not been able to find an affordable effective way to back up my runtime. So whenever I rebuild a runtime or used to before these changes, I’d compare each items installer with the file sizes that used to be listed on the product pages. If they matched I’d install what I had and if they didn’t I’d reset the download on that item because it had been updated. Now it’s a hassle to have to do it this way but Daz stopped notifying customers with emails about updates, then they stopped automatically resetting downloads for updated files, then they stopped having a sub forum specifically for notifying customers of updates (all three methods of which were preferable to how I had to do things and/or the method you’re suggesting above). Now yes one could do as you suggest but it’s a lot more work and greatly slows things down. The way I used to do things (going to the product page and comparing file sizes before installing) slowed things down a lot too causing it to take me months to rebuild a runtime complete. The way you suggest is much slower because of the process of installing to dummy folders before comparing and would likely increase the time to rebuild my runtime from months to more then a year and likely by the time I finished a number of the items would likely have been updated again. Really the best solution though would be for Daz to come up with a new way of doing things such that every time they update Studio or improve Genesis they don’t create a need for so many products to have to be updated to keep working. Before Studio 4 and Genesis this almost never happened and updates were mostly to fix errors in products that should have been caught before release but weren’t. I never had to update Victoria 1,2,3 or 4, Michael 1,2,3 or 4, Freak, David Stephanie, Aiko, etc just because a new version of Poser came out.

fixmypcmike - 10 May 2013 05:49 AM
LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

If so then Daz will start hearing a lot of complaints soon if they’re not hearing them already. I don’t see why it should be an issue and daz couldn’t just use the same naming convention before which did indicate version number, I mean all you’re doing is changing the file extension from .exe to .zip

I’ve asked for this, although given how rife with errors the file naming approach has been, I’m happy to have DIM’s checksum-based system.

I’d be happy with a checksum-based system too if I could also visually tell version numbers by looking at the file name. I’m sorry but Daz has had too much trouble with things that were supposed to work a certain way but didn’t for me to completely trust the accuracy of DIM.

fixmypcmike - 10 May 2013 05:49 AM
LordHardDriven - 09 May 2013 09:57 PM

As to the issue you had yeah the DIM only handles content which is best since people also like to have control over where programs are installed for performance reasons. Also as I understand it the DIM is currently only installing Daz Studio and Poser content and that for now it won’t install content for Carrara or Bryce.

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/install_manager/change_log

Near as I can tell it sounds like DIM still is having issues with Carrara and Bryce. I certainly don’t get the impression from that change log that it’s ready for prime time with those programs. Besides many of the old installers didn’t properly install things in Bryce and Carrara to where they would work without the user having to do things first (import materials and objects into presets in the case of some Bryce files and some shaders and objects also had to be imported in the case of Carrara) so if the files have been simply changed from exe to zip then even if DIM is now able to install Bryce items it wouldn’t do it correctly without requiring further user intervention. Which might not be a problem if one just had a handful of files but when one has hundreds of files it is a problem, a big problem.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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I have never allowed anything, be it zip or installer or whatever to install anything straight into my Bryce iset ups. I always do it myself, either copy and paste or drag and dropping it where I want it to go,

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Posted: 10 May 2013 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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Never mind.  Try it and you may understand how it’s better than the methods you describe, even if you only use a small part of its features.  Or don’t.  But if you want to discuss what’s wrong with it and what would be better, it would help if you actually tried it.  Emails about updates, automatic resets, and the Product Updates subforum were so inconsistent as to be nearly useless.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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LordHardDriven - 10 May 2013 12:28 PM

Now if the day comes that the Product Library option is taken away from customers then those people may start using DIM to download but I suspect the type of people I’m talking about will resent being forced to do something differently then they used to be able to do and preferred.

Seconded. I’m (mostly) happy with the way the new Product Library works, the major issue for me right now is the question of updates. From what we’re being told I’m getting the impression it’s “DIM or nothing”.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 04:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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fixmypcmike - 10 May 2013 02:41 PM

Never mind.  Try it and you may understand how it’s better than the methods you describe, even if you only use a small part of its features.  Or don’t.  But if you want to discuss what’s wrong with it and what would be better, it would help if you actually tried it.  Emails about updates, automatic resets, and the Product Updates subforum were so inconsistent as to be nearly useless.

Agreed but they were only inconsistent because some one or some group of people wasn’t able to keep on top of it. I mean if the system can identify who bought what then it shouldn’t be all that difficult to send out an email to all customers who bought an item that was updated. Even easier with the sub forum, noting need be sent out, just a single post made saying what was updated and why. I just really don’t see why the failure of people to do something so simple necessitates switching to a whole new way of doing things that leaves customers even less sure if they got all the latest most up to date files. Given that there were all these failures of past systems to keep customers on top of updates doesn’t exactly inspire trust that this new system will be full proof.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 04:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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SpottedKitty - 10 May 2013 03:55 PM
LordHardDriven - 10 May 2013 12:28 PM

Now if the day comes that the Product Library option is taken away from customers then those people may start using DIM to download but I suspect the type of people I’m talking about will resent being forced to do something differently then they used to be able to do and preferred.

Seconded. I’m (mostly) happy with the way the new Product Library works, the major issue for me right now is the question of updates. From what we’re being told I’m getting the impression it’s “DIM or nothing”.

Well not exactly, what we are being told is that the file name will not reveal to us what version a file is and so we won’t be able to tell at a glance if something is up to date. Rather we will have to download whatever is there install it to a dummy folder and then install the old version we have to a dummy folder and then compare the two to see if anything is different. So 2 seconds to glance at a file name vs several minutes to download, install two separate files and then compare. My installation workflow would be significantly slowed down.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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LordHardDriven - 10 May 2013 04:29 PM

Rather we will have to download whatever is there install it to a dummy folder and then install the old version we have to a dummy folder and then compare the two to see if anything is different. So 2 seconds to glance at a file name vs several minutes to download, install two separate files and then compare. My installation workflow would be significantly slowed down.

Or launch DIM and see at a glance if something was updated.  As someone who is OCD about updates, using DIM has shown me just how woefully inadequate all of the methods previously used have been.  Even the most recent iteration of the “version number as part of the filename” method introduced at the same time as DS4Pro, which was done far more consistently than any past method, has had an order of magnitude more errors than DIM (and only about 10-20% of the products in the store even got this round of installers, whereas DIM now has about 90%)—check the “Updated Genesis Products” thread linked in my sig if you want to see how frequently it failed.

I’m still hopeful that more of the technology behind DIM will be incorporated into the Product Library page, but the fact is that those of us who have used it extensively already know it is the first time this problem has been anything close to solved.

It is certainly your right to ask DAZ 3D to implement all the features of DIM in the Product Library page.
It is certainly your right to refuse to try DIM on principle.
But the only thing significantly slowing down your workflow is your refusal to try DIM.  You don’t trust it to be reliable, while at the same time you are willing to trust methods which are demonstrably far less reliable.

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