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Carrara Wiki – A Call for Dialogue
Posted: 17 April 2013 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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DA, I understand exactly where you are coming from. I wonder though, short of DAZ taking this tiger by the tail and owning it, who will be annointed (or will usurp?) the authority to make decisions such as those required to achieve these objectives? For example, if someone offers training on a topic but it is not in the right format (#1), would it not be included? Who decides this? It’s not that I don’t agree with the value; it is that I can’t envision how the Carrara user community as a whole can make this happen. Maybe you can expand on this point?


Absolutely nothing if DAZ doesn’t stand up on its hind legs and show some leadership where training for Carrara is concerned.

Any software that has a degree of complexity needs solid leadership for a training base so that the customer may have more confidence in their software.

I’m quite sure those who complain about problems that have solutions but cannot find those solutions would be lessened by a huge percentage.

Andrew Carnegie People who are unable to motivate themselves must be content with mediocrity, no matter how impressive their other talents.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/mediocrity.html#H5FiRlK4Acy1WeG2.99

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Posted: 17 April 2013 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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tsarist - 17 April 2013 10:15 AM

Sorry, if I misunderstood you. I actually started writing my response after reading 3Dage’s response.
I got busy and literally just got back to writing you.

No worries. I’m writing posts in-between taking breaths. wink

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Posted: 17 April 2013 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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FractalDimensia - 17 April 2013 09:46 AM
tsarist - 17 April 2013 09:16 AM

Hello FractalDemensia

I like your idea, but I agree with Holly and the 3DAge.
We already have plenty of sources of information, but we need a way to bring it all together.

It’s hard to do that as a community because we all have lives and the volunteer thing is time consuming and subject to the winds of fate.

I do wish the company would break down and hire someone to write a proper book (even if it is only in pdf format) that would be “Secrets of Carrara.”

I thought if I could get enough time, I would sit down and write one, but the giant client I had on the hook fell through, so that was no longer possible for me. I was going to sit down and go through every tutorial, the manual, and various video tutorials and learn the software from the ground up.

Let’s keep thinking aloud. It’s good for us.

Tsarist, I think I need to edit my initial posting. It clearly didn’t hit the target! I agree with “We already have plenty of sources of information, but we need a way to bring it all together.” This is what I was suggesting, only more specifically to describe the mechanism to integrating these sources.

I’ve posted other thoughts in response to others here, so won’t repeat them. Only that I am fully open to consider an effective way to make this happen. Thinking is important before you jump into the pool (“Do I REALLY want to jump into THIS pool???”), but sooner or later you have to jump in if you want to learn to swim. wink


I think you may be missing the point Holly and 3dage were making. I agree. We don’t need another URL to go to. It dilutes the base. Personally, I think that if there is a community driven manual (for lack of a better word), it would be best to be located at CarraraCafe. I personally like the idea Holly had with the the foums being broken down into Carrara’s “rooms.” Once the set-up of the forums is complete I think the best uses of time and resources would be to evangelize the hell out of it, not just to get traffic, but participation.


The point you make about posters rarely going back to update posts is a valid one, but to be honest, I don’t like the idea of somebody going in and editing a tutorial that I spent time and effort creating. There’s too much room for mischief in a Wiki. Besides, in Carrara, there are many ways to skin a cat, so a tutorial showing one way to achieve something in Carrara may seem incorrect to some people, but just perfect for others.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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All good posts and clearly we are all on the same side of this issue, so any new contributions or formats I am all for….

But I think Evilp says my two main issues… I wouldn’t care to have my articles rewritten for me (I am someone who goes back and rewrites a lot, always can use more edit time…)

And the argument AGAINST the uniform approach is that not everyone communicates the same way. It might take 2 or 3 different tutorials before I understand the little bit I’m missing, and also just manners of speech and brevity of attention leave lots of room for misinterpretation… Video tutorials help because I can see (sort of) everything that actually takes place (the little actions that don’t get mentioned in text), but I almost always zone out several times in video tutorials so I tend to not watch them at all….

In defense of a forum thread, the topics may have many entries that go into side topics, but then that is the natural course of the discussion. We might learn something from that side topic, and there are again many voices there to help clarify. If someone still doesn’t get it, or there is something they missed, it’s easy to just post a question and then people can answer right there in the topic…. Forum mods can split threads or merge them, but everyone’s words stay their own…. The commitment is very low (answer when you feel like it, read when you feel like it, add a help file or screen grab when you feel like it).... A formalized single standard of information is guaranteed to leave some people out, and to take an infinite amount of time to complete.

But, I’m definitely NOT trying to be snarky or controlling here…. Part of my issue with the Carrara Movie Project was that I suggested a more open-ended time-friendly way to contribute, but that was NOT what the community wanted, they wanted Star Wars - a hollywood movie…. And well… it still might happen… someday….

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Posted: 17 April 2013 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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FractalDimensia - 17 April 2013 08:48 AM
Garstor - 17 April 2013 07:53 AM

I’d be open to seeing either (both!) formats in use. The hard part is getting the momentum going.

Dartanbeck’s big catalogue of info goes a long way to organizing stuff (insofar as his mind can be organized! smile ).

Thanks Dartanbeck. Agreed.

BTW, I have found Dartanbeck’s info thread incredibly useful (and suggest everyone have a read). I cannot speak though about the mind that ushers those words forth. wink

You’re welcome, and… Thanks? Not sure I can speak for the mind, either! lol
A mystery, that one… is.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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I should say that if the OP and others wish to set one up, I personally don’t have an objection. If it helps even one person, or spreads the word about Carrara, then great! It’s just something I probably won’t do.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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The most difficult time I’ve been having is that this forum is still… well…
I mean, why can we not edit where our images lay within the post? I would certainly never recommend this service to any company. It’s horrible for tutorial creation. I simply don’t have the time to wait for Cafe, to do anything on the scale of my info thread here. I’m making my own site to facilitate tutorials for my products, since Daz3d is currently broken in that department. So far… other choices are rather bleak.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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evilproducer - 17 April 2013 01:13 PM

I should say that if the OP and others wish to set one up, I personally don’t have an objection. If it helps even one person, or spreads the word about Carrara, then great! It’s just something I probably won’t do.

Same here. Not if it renders the ability for anyone to come in and wreck what I say. It’s really hard to find the time to put together the thread I have going here. A lot of time went in so far.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thanks to everyone who has provided their thoughts and ideas on this topic so far! I should have dropped a place-holder at the front of this thread, but I’ll summarize what I have gleamed from the dialogue so far, and then propose an alternative to my initial proposal.

Summary of Needs:

1) We need to get the ton of info about Carrara currently on the web (old DAZ forums, Café forum, new forums, websites, YouTube, etc.) collected, collated, and made available by topic. My thoughts - The information should be easily accessible, readable, and informative.

2) We need a means to show the many ways to skin a cat, to address how people think and communicate differently. My thoughts - Agree completely. You need 2 eyes to see 3 dimensions. wink

3) We need more community input/involvement in creating the product.

4) We need more open-ended, time friendly approach. My thoughts - As a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt, I am all for applying the 80/20 rule - getting 80% of the results from 20% of the effort -OR- answering 80% of the questions with 20% of the effort.

5) We need more video tutorials to demonstrate the use of features or show “how-to” methods.

6) Daz needs to provide leadership or at least support for this. My thoughts - This is not something we change, correct? Thinking outside the box, can we request Daz company support? If we could as for something what support would we need?

7) The User’s Guide needs updated to reflect current (new) features. My thoughts - This does not seem to be within our zone of influence.

Did I miss anything?


Issues with a Wiki approach:

1) The wiki format is limiting, and lacks the ability to describe the many ways to skin a cat. My thoughts - Personally, I love cats and am against skinning them…. Also, I would hope that the many ways things can be done would be described, so users see the variety. Vive la difference!!

2) Another web location (URL); i.e., not on DAZ3D website. My thoughts - Okay. It is not hard to add a hot button link to your browser, but I’ll accept another site is not optimal for spreading the word.

3) Other people have access to update personal tutorials and individuals’ words and materials. My thoughts - Since the purpose of the wiki was to be mainly as a place to integrate sources from elsewhere, there are plenty of work-arounds; e.g., add your personal tutorials to Carrara Café or start a new forums thread, and then reference them on the site via a link. The problem is that this is a 2-edged sword. Wanting some parts or aspects of the site to be easily expandable/changeable, while controlling or inhibiting other parts, is a challenge. (Remember that all changes on a wiki are reversible. You can back out anyone else’s changes.)

Did I miss anything?


Alternative:

So is it possible then to create a “community driven manual” or “Topic Based Infopedia” on Carrara Café? How would we go about creating a drop down or otherwise access such a location from the Café home page? If Wet already went down that path, what can be done differently now that wasn’t available then?

One other thought - Maybe those who have spent a lot of time on the forums can offer their thoughts about the most common issues/questions they have seen or answered. Starting to compile the FAQs would be a good place to start. They could also be posted, and people could volunteer to research, collect, collate, and put together a summary.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Just so that you’re aware, the Cafe is somewhat supported by DAZ- At least the web hosting and maybe the software. Not entirely sure of the extent of the involvement.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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This is very cool as it will save me loads of time! Thank you all!

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Dartanbeck @ Daz3d          Check out the Carrara Cafe          ►►►  Carrara Information Manual   ◄◄◄

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Posted: 17 April 2013 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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evilproducer - 17 April 2013 02:44 PM

Just so that you’re aware, the Cafe is somewhat supported by DAZ- At least the web hosting and maybe the software. Not entirely sure of the extent of the involvement.

Thanks EP. I wasn’t aware of that. The sub-title reads, “An official project by Daz3D.” But I might have assumed too much! smile

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The most complex object in mathematics, the Mandelbrot Set ... is so complex as to be uncontrollable by mankind and describable as ‘chaos’. — Benoit Mandelbrot

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Posted: 17 April 2013 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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FractalDimensia - 17 April 2013 02:16 PM

Alternative:

So is it possible then to create a “community driven manual” or “Topic Based Infopedia” on Carrara Café? How would we go about creating a drop down or otherwise access such a location from the Café home page? If Wet already went down that path, what can be done differently now that wasn’t available then?

One other thought - Maybe those who have spent a lot of time on the forums can offer their thoughts about the most common issues/questions they have seen or answered. Starting to compile the FAQs would be a good place to start. They could also be posted, and people could volunteer to research, collect, collate, and put together a summary.

Maybe a “Tips and Tricks” thread in the Carrara Cafe forum - ( No discussion just member’s offering their “how to do ” articles otherwise the thread would become impossible to follow - monitor for new subjects etc )

Other members can then cut and paste to their own documentation and create their own manual according to their interests and particular way of organising.

I started doing this a few months ago and found it quite easy every time I came across a topic of interest.

yes - I copied all Dartenbecks stuff for which I thank him - we owe a lot to this man’s forum contributions

Animators might be interested in taking a look at a web I started sometime ago though I haven’t “advertised ” it much nor supported it {I need to get the forum up and running ) . It mainly showcases animations and tutorials and other stuff. Just my effort to fill some of the needs discussed in this thread

http://animationplayhouse.yolasite.com/

 

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Posted: 17 April 2013 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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FractalDimensia - 17 April 2013 04:31 PM
evilproducer - 17 April 2013 02:44 PM

Just so that you’re aware, the Cafe is somewhat supported by DAZ- At least the web hosting and maybe the software. Not entirely sure of the extent of the involvement.

Thanks EP. I wasn’t aware of that. The sub-title reads, “An official project by Daz3D.” But I might have assumed too much! smile


I think it’s official in that it’s paid for and sanctioned by DAZ, but the people that run it are volunteers, and I have yet to see much in the way of editorial control, though I’m sure if it became a negative influence to Carrara or DAZ that would change.

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Posted: 17 April 2013 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Dartanbeck - 17 April 2013 04:20 PM

This is very cool as it will save me loads of time! Thank you all!

You didn’t want to hoard all of the work, did you? Personally, I’m all for hold onto things, but there’s better stuff to hoard. wink

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