Dynamic clothing

SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
edited December 1969 in New Users

I find that whenever I load dynamic clothing (e.g this http://www.sharecg.com/v/52005/browse/11/Poser/Dynamic-T-Shirts-for-Michael-4) that it doesn't load on the figure, but somewhere else in the scene. Also, it doesn't always show up as something you can drape in the Dynamic Clothing tab.

Anyone know why? Can Dynamic clothing not be fitted to a figure? So far, I seem to have to move the clothing roughly onto the model and then try to drape it, but usually it looks rubbish

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Comments

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    So called Poser 'Dynamic Cloth' is so often nothing of the sort really. It's just a model designed so that you can run it through Posers cloth room to drape it onto a figure. That means you'd need to manually shift it onto the character, drape and then render. If you're using Daz Studio, then the only dynamic clothing is via Optifex's plugin, and that only accepts Optifex's own clothes. Again, they don't actually move with the characters and need to be draped.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,824
    edited April 2013

    Poser dynamic clothing and DS dynamic clothing are indeed two different animals altogether.

    I don't know how the DS cloth room works, but the Poser cloth room has lots of different options, once you get used to using it, and you can get the clothing to truly fit the figure, and also simulate things like wind etc

    In the main the only free dynamic clothing you find will be for the Poser cloth room.

    However Martin (Optitex) does have quite a large catalogue of free stuff at his own site.
    http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php
    Which is for DS

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    so are you saying the product I linked to is for Poser only and won't work in DS?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,824
    edited December 1969

    yes :coolsmirk: sorry

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,901
    edited December 1969

    Though you could probably use them, to an extent at least, on Genesis if you rigged them with the Transfer Utility - load them into DS, with Genesis also in the scene, then go to Edit>Figure>Transfer Utility..., select Genesis as the source, select Clone as the Source shape and then pick Michael 4 from the list, select the shirt as the target, click the More options button, and check Reverse Source Shape from target, then click Accept.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited April 2013

    chohole said:
    Poser dynamic clothing and DS dynamic clothing are indeed two different animals altogether.

    I don't know how the DS cloth room works, but the Poser cloth room has lots of different options, once you get used to using it, and you can get the clothing to truly fit the figure, and also simulate things like wind etc

    In the main the only free dynamic clothing you find will be for the Poser cloth room.

    However Martin (Optitex) does have quite a large catalogue of free stuff at his own site.
    http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php
    Which is for DS

    Ok, thanks.Funny thing is, I downloaed some of the Optiplex stuff you suggested, but same problem - when I try to load it on to a figure (a Michael 4) it appears somewhere else in the scene and I have to manually move it over to the figure, rotate etc until it roughly sits on the figure.

    Why is that?

    Also, do I drape the garment it when the figure is in the neutral pose (arms outstretched) and then pose my figure? Or the other way around. Sorry if there'a a video about this, but I can't seem to find one.

    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,824
    edited December 1969

    That I can't help you with, as I am a Poser user :red: when I need to use another program apart from my fave one.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    chohole said:
    Poser dynamic clothing and DS dynamic clothing are indeed two different animals altogether.

    I don't know how the DS cloth room works, but the Poser cloth room has lots of different options, once you get used to using it, and you can get the clothing to truly fit the figure, and also simulate things like wind etc

    In the main the only free dynamic clothing you find will be for the Poser cloth room.

    However Martin (Optitex) does have quite a large catalogue of free stuff at his own site.
    http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php
    Which is for DS

    Ok, thanks.Funny thing is, I downloaed some of the Optiplex stuff you suggested, but same problem - when I try to load it on to a figure (a Michael 4) it appears somewhere else in the scene and I have to manually move it over to the figure, rotate etc until it roughly sits on the figure.

    Why is that?

    Also, do I drape the garment it when the figure is in the neutral pose (arms outstretched) and then pose my figure? Or the other way around. Sorry if there'a a video about this, but I can't seem to find one.


    Dynamic clothing is intended to move dynamically. The practical upshot of this is that your PC will need to calculate how the garment will move with the character, and will accurately depict wrinkles and the like in the process. For that reason, the clothing begins in a static unmovable form. The dynamics are entirely controlled by the plugin which can be added as a tab.

    Usually dynamic clothing comes by default in the T-pose. Position it over your character as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are minor poke throughs as the drape will handle a lot of that. Once done, use the draping tool from the Dynamic Clothing tab and the clothing will settle onto your figure. If you then animate your character into a pose (and yes I do mean animate, even for still frames) and run the drape, it will calculate the movement of your character from its original T-pose into the final pose you wanted, and the clothing will flow realistically with the figure.

    Incidentally, Poser's cloth room works in a very similar way, with the exception that any object can be transformed into a dynamic cloth rather than specific items.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969


    Usually dynamic clothing comes by default in the T-pose. Position it over your character as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are minor poke throughs as the drape will handle a lot of that. Once done, use the draping tool from the Dynamic Clothing tab and the clothing will settle onto your figure. If you then animate your character into a pose (and yes I do mean animate, even for still frames) and run the drape, it will calculate the movement of your character from its original T-pose into the final pose you wanted, and the clothing will flow realistically with the figure.

    Incidentally, Poser's cloth room works in a very similar way, with the exception that any object can be transformed into a dynamic cloth rather than specific items.

    Ok, thanks for that. So I get that the garment doesn't actually load to the figure, it just loads to the scene in a T-pose (glad there's a word for that by the way)

    But I am still not sure of your answer to my other question. Does the character have to be in the T-pose when I first put the clothing on it? or can it be in a pose I have already set?

    BTW - I don't do animations, so I am not sure what you mean by "animate your character into a pose." I normally just pose characters with the dials (bend, twist etc). Will that not work for dynamic clothing?

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited April 2013

    Sertorial said:
    But I am still not sure of your answer to my other question. Does the character have to be in the T-pose when I first put the clothing on it? or can it be in a pose I have already set?

    BTW - I don't do animations, so I am not sure what you mean by "animate your character into a pose." I normally just pose characters with the dials (bend, twist etc). Will that not work for dynamic clothing?


    The problem with posing your figure beforehand is that the clothing will be in the T-pose. That means if your character is already posed, there's a good chance that the cloth won't sit properly on the figure unless they're very similar poses. As you already guessed, the cloth doesn't follow the character by default, so if they're already posed, there's no telling where you'll get poke-through. That's the reason you'll probably need to animate the pose.

    As for animating, I mean exactly that. Ideally you want to move a few frames forwards and repose your character in the pose you ACTUALLY want. That way the first frame is the T-pose character and then your character will move into the final pose moving the dynamic clothing with it during the drape.

    When it comes to rendering you can choose to only render the final pose frame in the render settings. The animation is just to get the cloth looking correct, not for actual animation (though, that is dynamic cloths main purpose).

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969


    The problem with posing your figure beforehand is that the clothing will be in the T-pose. That means if your character is already posed, there's a good chance that the cloth won't sit properly on the figure unless they're very similar poses. As you already guessed, the cloth doesn't follow the character by default, so if they're already posed, there's no telling where you'll get poke-through. That's the reason you'll probably need to animate the pose.
    Ok, so I add the garment onto the figure in T pose, drape, pose figure, then drape again?



    As for animating, I mean exactly that. Ideally you want to move a few frames forwards and repose your character in the pose you ACTUALLY want. That way the first frame is the T-pose character and then your character will move into the final pose moving the dynamic clothing with it during the drape.


    Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by animate? When I create a scene it is for a still image. I put the figure in the scene, pose it and render it. Isn't animation to do with making movies by adding lots of stills together?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,824
    edited April 2013

    Dyanamic clothing relies on an short animation in order to drape the clothing correctly.

    On frame 1 have the figure in the default T position with the clothing on it as accurately as you can get it. THen move to a later frame and pose the "Human" figure in the pose you want, then run an animation, as the figure animates the clothing will start fitting itself to the figure.

    A simplistic description because, as I said earlier, I use the Poser cloth room, not the DS one, but the principle is much the same.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Dyanamic clothing relies on an short animation in order to drape the clothing correctly.

    On frame 1 have the figure in the default T position with the clothing on it as accurately as you can get it. THen move to a later frame and pose the "Human" figure in the pose you want, then run an animation, as the figure animates the clothing will start fitting itself to the figure.

    A simplistic description because, as I said earlier, I use the Poser cloth room, not the DS one, but the principle is much the same.

    I'm not following you. What do you mean by frame 1?

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    chohole said:
    Dyanamic clothing relies on an short animation in order to drape the clothing correctly.

    On frame 1 have the figure in the default T position with the clothing on it as accurately as you can get it. THen move to a later frame and pose the "Human" figure in the pose you want, then run an animation, as the figure animates the clothing will start fitting itself to the figure.

    A simplistic description because, as I said earlier, I use the Poser cloth room, not the DS one, but the principle is much the same.

    I'm not following you. What do you mean by frame 1?


    An animation is a series of frames. Frame 1 refers to the first frame in the animation. Now, I realise that you don't intend to actually RENDER an animation, but you will still need to animate the drape otherwise it will not only look wrong, but will probably not even fit the character you're trying to put the clothing onto.

    1) Start at the T-Pose. Move the character into the spot where you want them to be in the final render.
    2) Overlay the clothing over them ensuring you do NOT change the characters pose and that it fits with minimal poke through.
    3) Advance the frames forward by going to the timeline tab. About 10 frames should be enough for basic poses. Add more if the movement is going to be fairly complex, such as sitting cross legged or arms crossed.
    4) Set your pose. Note that the clothing still won't actually follow the figure at this point, but that's fine.
    5) Go back to frame 1 and run the drape for the 10-15 frames you had advanced earlier.
    6) After the drape is completed, you can now render. In the render settings, render the FINAL frame of the animation you just created. This ensures the final output is a still image and not an animation or image sequence.

    Yes, I realise you're not trying to make an animation, but you need to work with dynamic clothing as if you WERE trying to do an animation. Otherwise it simply won't look right.

  • SuperdogSuperdog Posts: 662
    edited December 1969

    When you load the clothing you need to have Genesis/M4 (any figure you want to clothe) selected and to drag the clothing onto the figure. Sometimes a dialogue will appear asking what figure the clothing was originally for and which figure you want to load it onto. If you just double click the clothing in your contents folder it'll just load into the scene but not necessarily onto your figure.

    If this doesn't work first time then delete the clothing from your scene and try again until it loads properly. Once the clothing is loaded onto your figure properly it'll move with the figure. However, certain clothing such as capes, robes or loose fitting garments may need to be re-scaled if you are animating the figures or the pose is quite extreme. That way the figure won't poke through the garment during the animation sequence or in certain poses.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited April 2013

    Superdog said:
    When you load the clothing you need to have Genesis/M4 (any figure you want to clothe) selected and to drag the clothing onto the figure. Sometimes a dialogue will appear asking what figure the clothing was originally for and which figure you want to load it onto. If you just double click the clothing in your contents folder it'll just load into the scene but not necessarily onto your figure.

    If this doesn't work first time then delete the clothing from your scene and try again until it loads properly. Once the clothing is loaded onto your figure properly it'll move with the figure. However, certain clothing such as capes, robes or loose fitting garments may need to be re-scaled if you are animating the figures or the pose is quite extreme. That way the figure won't poke through the garment during the animation sequence or in certain poses.


    The OP is referring to dynamic clothing, which works very differently to conforming clothing like you're describing.

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • VanguardVanguard Posts: 460
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    chohole said:
    Dyanamic clothing relies on an short animation in order to drape the clothing correctly.

    On frame 1 have the figure in the default T position with the clothing on it as accurately as you can get it. THen move to a later frame and pose the "Human" figure in the pose you want, then run an animation, as the figure animates the clothing will start fitting itself to the figure.

    A simplistic description because, as I said earlier, I use the Poser cloth room, not the DS one, but the principle is much the same.

    I'm not following you. What do you mean by frame 1?


    An animation is a series of frames. Frame 1 refers to the first frame in the animation. Now, I realise that you don't intend to actually RENDER an animation, but you will still need to animate the drape otherwise it will not only look wrong, but will probably not even fit the character you're trying to put the clothing onto.

    1) Start at the T-Pose. Move the character into the spot where you want them to be in the final render.
    2) Overlay the clothing over them ensuring you do NOT change the characters pose and that it fits with minimal poke through.
    3) Advance the frames forward by going to the timeline tab. About 10 frames should be enough for basic poses. Add more if the movement is going to be fairly complex, such as sitting cross legged or arms crossed.
    4) Set your pose. Note that the clothing still won't actually follow the figure at this point, but that's fine.
    5) Go back to frame 1 and run the drape for the 10-15 frames you had advanced earlier.
    6) After the drape is completed, you can now render. In the render settings, render the FINAL frame of the animation you just created. This ensures the final output is a still image and not an animation or image sequence.

    Yes, I realise you're not trying to make an animation, but you need to work with dynamic clothing as if you WERE trying to do an animation. Otherwise it simply won't look right.

    HeralOfFire explains it very well. The only thing I would add is to add about ten frames past the final pose to give additional drape time to the final pose. This works well for me.

    There is a DAZ3D video that explains what HOF is describing exactly

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZbAE2Hy168

    It takes a little time to wrap your head around Dynamic Clothing as it is so different from the conforming clothing we are used to, but the results are really spectacular. If only there was more content for the Dynamic Clothing or a readily available way for clothing makers to even make Dynamic Clothing.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    An animation is a series of frames. Frame 1 refers to the first frame in the animation. Now, I realise that you don't intend to actually RENDER an animation, but you will still need to animate the drape otherwise it will not only look wrong, but will probably not even fit the character you're trying to put the clothing onto.

    1) Start at the T-Pose. Move the character into the spot where you want them to be in the final render.
    2) Overlay the clothing over them ensuring you do NOT change the characters pose and that it fits with minimal poke through.
    3) Advance the frames forward by going to the timeline tab. About 10 frames should be enough for basic poses. Add more if the movement is going to be fairly complex, such as sitting cross legged or arms crossed.
    4) Set your pose. Note that the clothing still won't actually follow the figure at this point, but that's fine.
    5) Go back to frame 1 and run the drape for the 10-15 frames you had advanced earlier.
    6) After the drape is completed, you can now render. In the render settings, render the FINAL frame of the animation you just created. This ensures the final output is a still image and not an animation or image sequence.

    Yes, I realise you're not trying to make an animation, but you need to work with dynamic clothing as if you WERE trying to do an animation. Otherwise it simply won't look right.

    Hi

    When you say the timeline tab, I presume you mean the pop up thing at the bottom of the screen? I have never used this before. It looks like a ruler with 5,10,15 along it and an orange down arrow. What am I meant to be doing? If I try and move the arrow along, nothing happens to my figure. Is it supposed to move?

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    It won't move, because you haven't told it to move. By default, future frames have the same pose as previous frames and for movement, you need frames with a different position in each one. If you advance the frames along and apply a pose, however, the figure will move from frame 1 (technically frame zero) smoothly into the pose you set in the next key frame. This is called interpolation or 'tweening' which is short for 'inbetween', referring to how the software handles movements to smoothly transition from one keyframe to another.

    Now, if you follow the guide I've offered, you should see it all come together. Sometimes experimentation works better than explanation.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    It won't move, because you haven't told it to move. By default, future frames have the same pose as previous frames and for movement, you need frames with a different position in each one. If you advance the frames along and apply a pose, however, the figure will move from frame 1 (technically frame zero) smoothly into the pose you set in the next key frame. This is called interpolation or 'tweening' which is short for 'inbetween', referring to how the software handles movements to smoothly transition from one keyframe to another.

    Now, if you follow the guide I've offered, you should see it all come together. Sometimes experimentation works better than explanation.

    wow! That's incredible! So I now have an huge number of extra poses available to me (intermediates between any two other poses)!

    To hell with dynamic clothing, this is a real revelation! How come this is never mentioned in any tutorials on posing? It's potentially VERY useful!

    Thanks

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    wow! That's incredible! So I now have an huge number of extra poses available to me (intermediates between any two other poses)!

    To hell with dynamic clothing, this is a real revelation! How come this is never mentioned in any tutorials on posing? It's potentially VERY useful!

    Thanks


    I suppose one of the reasons is because it does interpolation in a very direct way. Sometimes the intermediary poses aren't very realistic, and it requires an animators touch to give it some finesse.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    wow! That's incredible! So I now have an huge number of extra poses available to me (intermediates between any two other poses)!

    To hell with dynamic clothing, this is a real revelation! How come this is never mentioned in any tutorials on posing? It's potentially VERY useful!

    Thanks


    I suppose one of the reasons is because it does interpolation in a very direct way. Sometimes the intermediary poses aren't very realistic, and it requires an animators touch to give it some finesse.

    I read somewhere that it's motion captured animation though. So it should be pretty realistic

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    Sertorial said:
    wow! That's incredible! So I now have an huge number of extra poses available to me (intermediates between any two other poses)!

    To hell with dynamic clothing, this is a real revelation! How come this is never mentioned in any tutorials on posing? It's potentially VERY useful!

    Thanks


    I suppose one of the reasons is because it does interpolation in a very direct way. Sometimes the intermediary poses aren't very realistic, and it requires an animators touch to give it some finesse.

    I read somewhere that it's motion captured animation though. So it should be pretty realistic


    If you're applying a pose from a preset, the resulting interpolation is not motion captured. The motion capture refers to things like AniBlocks and BVH (Biovision Hierarchy) files which are actually animations rather than static poses, and therefore they also apply much of the 'tweened' frames for you so that there's little to no interpolation. The result is a much more accurate and smooth movement, since it's taken directly from real movements.

    Tweened movements based on static poses however will give very different results. Your character will always take the most direct way to reach the final pose, and the number of frames between keyframes will dictate how long your character takes to get into that pose. All of the tweened frames will fill to accommodate the motion, so the more frames there are, the slower the final motion becomes.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    Sertorial said:
    wow! That's incredible! So I now have an huge number of extra poses available to me (intermediates between any two other poses)!

    To hell with dynamic clothing, this is a real revelation! How come this is never mentioned in any tutorials on posing? It's potentially VERY useful!

    Thanks


    I suppose one of the reasons is because it does interpolation in a very direct way. Sometimes the intermediary poses aren't very realistic, and it requires an animators touch to give it some finesse.

    I read somewhere that it's motion captured animation though. So it should be pretty realistic


    If you're applying a pose from a preset, the resulting interpolation is not motion captured. The motion capture refers to things like AniBlocks and BVH (Biovision Hierarchy) files which are actually animations rather than static poses, and therefore they also apply much of the 'tweened' frames for you so that there's little to no interpolation. The result is a much more accurate and smooth movement, since it's taken directly from real movements.

    Tweened movements based on static poses however will give very different results. Your character will always take the most direct way to reach the final pose, and the number of frames between keyframes will dictate how long your character takes to get into that pose. All of the tweened frames will fill to accommodate the motion, so the more frames there are, the slower the final motion becomes.

    Ok, so it sounds like tweened frames aren't necessarily very useful as poses then? (if they're not very realistic, I mean). Does anyone actually use them for that? (I must admit, I hadn't realised they even existed, so have been using the standard genesis poses and modifying them)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    My method is to do the T pose to First pose Drape then I will extend the Timeline for Second pose or more. The Draping works much better after the Tween draping is done. IMHO.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited April 2013

    Sertorial said:
    Ok, so it sounds like tweened frames aren't necessarily very useful as poses then? (if they're not very realistic, I mean). Does anyone actually use them for that? (I must admit, I hadn't realised they even existed, so have been using the standard genesis poses and modifying them)

    They can be, but it very much depends on the start and end poses. That's one of the reasons I said you need to think more like an animator rather than a still-life photographer when it comes to using tweened frames.

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • edited December 1969

    I just got DS4.5 and re-downloaded the clothing control. Where do I find it? I've been all over this interface.
    I figured I'd ask here rather then a new thread since this one is most informative.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    If you go to Windows -> Panes (Tabs) -> Dynamic Clothing you'll get a dockable window which holds all of the controls you need.

  • edited December 1969

    Ever look at the same thing over and over and never see it? It was at the bottom, not in alphabetical order. :(

    Thank you!!!

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:
    Ok, so it sounds like tweened frames aren't necessarily very useful as poses then? (if they're not very realistic, I mean). Does anyone actually use them for that? (I must admit, I hadn't realised they even existed, so have been using the standard genesis poses and modifying them)

    They can be, but it very much depends on the start and end poses. That's one of the reasons I said you need to think more like an animator rather than a still-life photographer when it comes to using tweened frames.

    But why do you have to use animation to pose before you can drape the clothing? Why will it not just drape on a normally posed figure? (I am not really sure I understand any of this tbh)

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