Caricature

RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

At last - been trying to get this right for ages. Retopoed in Hex a sculpt done in Sculptris - a caricature of a local politico - thanks to Johnnybevo for putting me on track :-)

Caricature.jpg
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Comments

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 432
    edited December 1969

    Let's really good and the topology is great!

    I would get rid of that "star" on the forehead though.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Good point - thank you :red:

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    VERY NICE and CLEAN! Now for some BUMP channeling!

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I use to be terrified of making HEADs faces in HEX. Now it like everything else

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Yeah - me too. Just couldn't get it right, but now I've got the method sorted, I'm rarin' to go make more.

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    If you ever plan to animate any of these faces you really need to rethink the topology. I just pulled this out of a quick search - http://angieanimated.blogspot.com/2011/05/character-modeling-research-ssay.html

    Box modeling really doesn't work for faces without a lot of extra work or unless they are only going to be a bust or something similar. If you plan to use any kind of deformations, proper edge loops are essential.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the advice - here's a screencap of him having a bit of a laugh - I didn't make too much of an effort because the facial movement morphs will only be done properly after rigging. Seems to deform OK. This wasn't box-modelled, it was done using retopology techniques, poly-by-poly.

    CARAC2.JPG
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  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    OK - I've taken a look at that blog - it really is modelling 101- nothing earth-shattering there.

    I really don't see how the method of constructing a mesh has any relationship to how it deforms when animated. Whether this is done by box-modelling, point, sticking together a bunch of primitives or whatever, it is the end result which counts. If the topology is right, with good edge-flow that follows the muscular structure, you will get good deformation when animated.

    I've seen many methods employed by experts, and personally successfully done, many humanoid and animal figures made in a variety of methods and all either work or don't work depending on the above criteria and the skill involved in rigging/morphing.

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    I guess it's just the way the ears and mouth sat that made it look box modeled? But yea, the method doesn't matter as long as the loops work. One of the reasons I don't do much organic modeling is because I'm horrible at getting the edge loops right.


    I still think you're going to have problems with his cheeks at least but if he's work then all's good.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    I've tested all parts and it all deforms OK .

    You are right, organic modelling is difficult, which is why I've persisted in trying to get it right. Ears and mouth are the most difficult for me, so I'll concentrate on those. This is intended as a caricature, so it's all about exaggeration.

    Always battled with using reference pics, which is why I'm so happy to have managed to do this using a Sculptris model. Sure wish that Hex had proper retopo.

    Blender has really good retopo tools, but it is a pain for me to learn it. Has anyone here used Voidworld ? It does seem to have very good retopo capabilities, but the instructions are pretty fragmented and there is no forum that I can find.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited June 2012

    Looking good there Roygee,

    Roygee said:
    Has anyone here used Voidworld ? It does seem to have very good retopo capabilities, but the instructions are pretty fragmented.......................

    Yes, what do you want to know?

    By the way, the voidworld forum is here:- http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/index.php

    .

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    never tried doing retopology even using shrinkwrap but I generally try to keep my models lowpoly as long as I can.


    Not that I've ever gotten one that far but in XSI I can transfer weight maps from a low poly model to a high poly one. Painting weights on high poly models is no fun so I always look at the opposite process and never used Scuptris for more than creating terrains.


    I almost always use reference images tho or my proportions are way off. It takes a lot of effort to get photo reference scaled right for the different views. I tossed this together earlier and one reason it's messed up is because I didn't get the front and side very close. It does show were I started to go off on the topology around the jaw/cheek. That line needs to be redirected up and split the vertical line instead of making the star it is now, if that makes sense. The center strip is just a reference for me in perspective view and might or might not be deleted if I get that far.

    facefopa.jpg
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  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Steve - and for that link - will take a look later.

    The problem I have is in getting started with retopo - see the creature I created in Sculptris - it appears that the facets I started are on the surface, but they are inside the beastie. When I zoom in any more than it is now, the facets vanish. So the first question is how to get the facets snapping to the surface - it is in retopo mode and retopo is enabled.

    It's possible that the beastie is not selected - (does it need to be?) it is in selection mode and I've done LMB and MMB, but it doesn't show as being selected.

    @ admkirk - what works for me is to start the mouth and around the eye, from there down the nose and join up. For the cheekbones I extrude and shape one strip of facet at a time along the contour of the cheeks, all the way down to the jaw, then extrude and shape to join up.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited June 2012

    Hi Roygee,

    You need to reference the object first.
    Load your object and select it. On the far right hand side you will see 3 tabs(they are placed vertical next to the "Visual tools"), move your mouse over the "Scene Explorer", a window will pop out. At the top of the scene explorer, select the "Retopo Reference List" Click on "Add from scene selection", your object should then appear in the list. At the top of that same window is a check box "Retopo mode Enabled", check(tick) the box to enable.

    You can then go into edge mode and select the retopo tool. Click on your mesh and the vertex will snap to surface, just draw out your new polygons. If you draw 2 separate polygons, you can join/bridge them by pressing down (and holding down) the shift key, click on one edge, then click on another edge and they will bridge (the number of polygons that form the bridge is determined by the option in the right hand properties window "segments" If you want to add a new polygon to an existing polygon, press ctrl(hold down) and click an edge, release the control key and a new edge will be pulled from the edge you selected.(right click to exit)

    Hope that gets you started.

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:

    @ admkirk - what works for me is to start the mouth and around the eye, from there down the nose and join up. For the cheekbones I extrude and shape one strip of facet at a time along the contour of the cheeks, all the way down to the jaw, then extrude and shape to join up.

    Yep that's generally what I do too, eye first then that mouth. The cheek and nose really give me problems tho and that's where I have problems getting the edge loops I want without having crazy geometry. I'm sure if I attempt it more I'll eventually work out process.

    Even tho I'm never likely to go that way I'm looking forward to hear how your retopo work goes.

  • hiker_1hiker_1 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    pretty neat stuff roy....

    how did you go about doint the retopo in hex??

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Steve - that worked great - works so much better when you don't have to spend most of the time pulling polys out of the model mesh. Just a couple of other things to sort out, like how to adjust the clipping plane so that the model doesn't vanish when I get up close and what happens to my newly created mesh when I'm done.

    @admrkirk - that is where I've always had the problem when using ref pics - if I had a pad I could draw guide lines on the ref pics - that could probably help a lot.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    Hi Roygee,

    Roygee said:
    ................. like how to adjust the clipping plane so that the model doesn't vanish when I get up close and what happens to my newly created mesh when I'm done.

    The clipping as always been a pain. There where options added(edit-> preference-> clip plane), but it is still a problem.

    For the retopo mesh, that depends. If you have any object selected when you start the retopo tool, then the retopo becomes part of that mesh. If no object is selected when you start the retopo tool, then the retopo mesh becomes a separate object.

    .

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Hi Steve - I'm getting some understanding of the clipping plane - can now zoom right into the model, but, yes, it is pretty strange.

    I'll just learn this as I have so many other apps - RTFM and experiment.

    @hiker_1 I did it pretty much like making tight-fitting clothing - lock the base mesh, make the polys then ease them in/out of the base mesh. It helped that I made the base mesh a bright colour so I could see what was going on. Also good to have one orthographic view and work in perspective view - that way I could see the poly go onto the surface and get it to fit tight - pretty painful, but got easier as I became used to it.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    Hi Roygee,

    Roygee said:
    Hi Steve - I'm getting some understanding of the clipping plane - can now zoom right into the model, but, yes, it is pretty strange.The focus does mess up now and again as well. You can press "ctrl+alt+shift" (hold down) and either:-
    Right click on screen to "set view focusing point"
    or
    Left click on object for "selection focusing"
    (you can of course change the key combinations/shortcuts in the "edit-> Customize-> Tools" if needed)

    I'll just learn this as I have so many other apps - RTFM and experiment.

    LOL. The manual is not the best, it does leave certain steps out in various functions, so it does tend to be a need for lots of experimentation.
    I noticed you have joined at voidworld forum. There is usually someone around if you post a question. It is quiet over there, as it appears most current feedback is being made over at Polycount forum:- http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74005&page=73

    .

  • RichardChaosRichardChaos Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I do not SUBDIVIDE any organic model i make in HEX as the smoothing work like magic in Carrara! I noticed you subdivided your head model. ALso I dont know what program you are gunna stick your head in but Carrara also has some wicked MORPH target for make expressions and Facial movements.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Steve - yep, picked up on the focussing. The discussion on Polycount is pretty advanced technically, but pretty informative. The speed of development and updates focussing on users' requests is pretty astounding, seeing that the app seems to be in the hands of one person - pretty amazing.

    I'm having a lot of fun discovering the capabilities and, as much as I have enjoyed Hex over the years, it seems that it's time to move along to more advanced tools.

    Richard - I also don't permanently subdivide organic meshes - only did this to demo. My only rendering app is Carrara and I do the rendering smoothing there - it's soft selection is better than Hex's, making it better for morphing.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 350
    edited December 1969

    Hi Roygee,

    Roygee said:
    I'm having a lot of fun discovering the capabilities....It does have some interesting features. It is a bit of a pain in some areas, but at least it is being developed and the creator is actually listening to the feedback and making changes.


    ......and, as much as I have enjoyed Hex over the years, it seems that it's time to move along to more advanced tools.

    I can certainly understand that.

    .

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