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A Little More Love for Poser Users Please
Posted: 11 April 2013 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Dim Reaper - 11 April 2013 11:39 AM
ForbiddenWhispers - 11 April 2013 11:10 AM


It really does annoy & upset me how people jump to conclusions. The way it came across in your post, is that I ‘couldn’t be bothered’ to offer Poser support. When that IS NOT the case. If I’ve offered cross compatiable support for years, why would I stop now?


In the first post that I made at the start of the thread, and in a later post, I specifically stated:

“But I don’t hold the artists responsible because all of these products are being sold in the Daz store.”

and

“I realise that these are not Daz original products and I do not feel that the blame is with the PA’s.”


So I’ll say it again - I don’t blame any of the PA’s for not making their products Poser compatible, simply because many PA’s do not own Poser.  Daz owns the store, so it is their responsibility to make their products compatible with Poser if they want Poser users to continue using Genesis and DSON. 

 

DAZ does not change or touch PA products… ever. And I’m sure PAs don’t want them doing that.

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Posted: 11 April 2013 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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I understand PA’s not wanting Daz changing their products, but Daz adding the Poser companion/dson files isn’t really changing anything. They’re just adding another installer. I don’t see why PA’s would have a problem with that unless for whatever silly reason they just didn’t want Poser compatibility with their product.

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Posted: 11 April 2013 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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There are actually several reasons why an item might not work in Poser, even using the Dimension 3D utility or my file hacking to import the .duf file:

grouping: DAZ Studio does not require that the mesh all be in a group that belongs to a bone, Poser does. As a result some, mainly older, items need the mesh updating to group it for Poser compatibility (and an item made by a vendor without access to poser might have this problem too).

materials: DS procedural materials, via Shader Mixer, would have to be reworked for Poser. While most things should be doable via the Material Room not everyone is going to have the needed skills, and there’s no automation. Even materials using the standard shaders will require work. Fortunately this is probably the easiest thing for third parties to work around, by providing .mc6 files, but it iss till going to be a problem for some creators.

smoothing: anything that relies on smoothing or collision detection is not going to work as this is not currently supported in the DSON importer - it can be slow even in DS, and the Poser system already suffers a speed penalty through the need to implement SubD without adding an additional overhead. Unlike the first two, this is probably an absolute block for now.

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Posted: 11 April 2013 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Richard, so if I create a bone, weight map it, but do not have an associated Face Group, it won’t work in Poser via DSON?

Regarding Smoothing: that’s a HUGE issue… :( :( :(

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Posted: 11 April 2013 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Faerydae - 11 April 2013 12:01 PM

I understand PA’s not wanting Daz changing their products, but Daz adding the Poser companion/dson files isn’t really changing anything. They’re just adding another installer. I don’t see why PA’s would have a problem with that unless for whatever silly reason they just didn’t want Poser compatibility with their product.

As Richard pointed out, it’s not that simple. DSON does not equal Poser compatible. Case in point, two items in my store: Axel M5 and Nigel M5; both are DSON but only one is Poser compatible. Since there are issues with DSON and single axis scaling in Poser, the short shapes in Nigel don’t work in Poser… the only solution is to create new rigging adjustments for the body shapes, which means I’m spending several hours rigging and then testing the shapes so that there aren’t issues with poses. Then the big issue is time; with items in testing and new items in the pipeline (which I’m behind on), the problem is when will I have time to rig several body shapes for older products and send it back through QA for another round of testing…. and so those haven’t been updated.

Similar issues can crop up of with clothing items that work fine in DS, but need additional work to get them working in Poser…  if the PA even has a copy of Poser 9/2012 to test.. some don’t.

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Posted: 11 April 2013 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Male-M3dia - 11 April 2013 12:55 PM
Faerydae - 11 April 2013 12:01 PM

I understand PA’s not wanting Daz changing their products, but Daz adding the Poser companion/dson files isn’t really changing anything. They’re just adding another installer. I don’t see why PA’s would have a problem with that unless for whatever silly reason they just didn’t want Poser compatibility with their product.

As Richard pointed out, it’s not that simple. DSON does not equal Poser compatible. Case in point, two items in my store: Axel M5 and Nigel M5; both are DSON but only one is Poser compatible. Since there are issues with DSON and single axis scaling in Poser, the short shapes in Nigel don’t work in Poser… the only solution is to create new rigging adjustments for the body shapes, which means I’m spending several hours rigging and then testing the shapes so that there aren’t issues with poses. Then the big issue is time; with items in testing and new items in the pipeline (which I’m behind on), the problem is when will I have time to rig several body shapes for older products and send it back through QA for another round of testing…. and so those haven’t been updated.

Similar issues can crop up of with clothing items that work fine in DS, but need additional work to get them working in Poser…  if the PA even has a copy of Poser 9/2012 to test.. some don’t.

P9/PP12 SR3 fixed single-axis scaling, and since SR3 is also required for DSON there shouldn’t be an issue.

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Posted: 11 April 2013 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Zaarin - 11 April 2013 01:30 PM
Male-M3dia - 11 April 2013 12:55 PM
Faerydae - 11 April 2013 12:01 PM

I understand PA’s not wanting Daz changing their products, but Daz adding the Poser companion/dson files isn’t really changing anything. They’re just adding another installer. I don’t see why PA’s would have a problem with that unless for whatever silly reason they just didn’t want Poser compatibility with their product.

As Richard pointed out, it’s not that simple. DSON does not equal Poser compatible. Case in point, two items in my store: Axel M5 and Nigel M5; both are DSON but only one is Poser compatible. Since there are issues with DSON and single axis scaling in Poser, the short shapes in Nigel don’t work in Poser… the only solution is to create new rigging adjustments for the body shapes, which means I’m spending several hours rigging and then testing the shapes so that there aren’t issues with poses. Then the big issue is time; with items in testing and new items in the pipeline (which I’m behind on), the problem is when will I have time to rig several body shapes for older products and send it back through QA for another round of testing…. and so those haven’t been updated.

Similar issues can crop up of with clothing items that work fine in DS, but need additional work to get them working in Poser…  if the PA even has a copy of Poser 9/2012 to test.. some don’t.

P9/PP12 SR3 fixed single-axis scaling, and since SR3 is also required for DSON there shouldn’t be an issue.

It didn’t fix the combination I’m speaking of. There are issues in the arm areas, which requires you to adjust the spheres in 2012 for F4 and S4 (for some) and save the CR2 back… and that has to be done by the end user. Since you don’t use Poser rigging tools to fix Genesis, I had to adjust the rigging through DSON so that the scale in the arms don’t go wonky.

I tested it again recently and the issue still exists.

All the short shapes in our new products (including the new teen shapes in the updated Ashley M5) are adjusted rigged to get around this issue.

 

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Posted: 11 April 2013 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I see. I suppose I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve not encountered such an error myself.

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