A Little More Love for Poser Users Please

Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in The Commons

With the move to Genesis, I was one of the Poser users who cancelled my PC membership and virtually stopped buying at Daz. So I was really pleased when Daz released the DSON scripts for Poser. I downloaded DSON and tried out the free models, then I bought V5 and was very pleased with the results. At the time, a big fanfare was made about how Genesis was now available to Poser users and how products were going to be updated to be compatible. Because of this I bought a lot more Genesis content - most of the "Pro Bundles" - V5, M5, H5, S5, Young Teens etc. I have been pleased with the way that DSON and Genesis work on my machine.

But...it's now been around 6 months since DSON was released. There are still some major items that haven't been converted to DSON for Poser. Even worse, there are still products being released that are not Poser-compatible. The ones that spring to mind most readily are:

Genesis Super Suit - Yes, a lot of texture conversion needed but the body suits were well used in previous generations of models and Genesis is missing a lot without this.

Hitomi - This figure seems to be the companion to Hiro now. But not if you use Poser.

Kimberly for Genesis - A recent release, but not compatible with Poser.

Add-on Textures for Real Jeanz for Genesis - Released today, The base model is Poser compatible, but none of the add-on packs are.


I realise that it could be argued that some of these are not Daz original products and it is the decision of the artist making them whether to go the extra mile and make them compatible with Poser. But I don't hold the artists responsible because all of these products are being sold in the Daz store.

Surely Daz could take some responsibility and convert these products to make them also Poser-compatible. Maybe it's possible to do it yourself using Daz Studio, but I don't use that program and I don't like the idea of paying for a product from Daz and then having to mess around and do the conversion myself - that's what I pay Daz for when I buy a product here.

Overall, I just can't help feeling that Daz lured a lot of Poser users back with the release of DSON and assurances that products would be compatible or be made compatible, but now they seem to have forgotten about us again.

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Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,402
    edited December 1969

    You can bring a lot of those into Poser, if you dion't mind redoing the materials, using (I think) Dimension3D's script that launches the DSON Importer via a file browser, so that Poser Companion Files aren't needed. Come to that, you can make your own PoserCFs manually - it just needs a copy of the .duf file, a copy of the .py file from any PoserCF renamed to match the .duf, and a copy of any Poser library file from a PoserCF rename to match the .duf and with the runpythonscript line edited to reflect the name of the .py/.duf file. I suspect materials are the main stumbling block, though soem things don't work for other reasons (grouping can be an issue, for example).

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,402
    edited December 1969

    And since WandW posted the link to the script in another thread: http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader

  • Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Richard. I will take a look at the script and I appreciate you posting the link.

    But...I do still think that Daz could do a lot more to ensure that at least new products sold here work with both DS and Poser wherever possible.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,373
    edited December 1969

    Hitomi, Kimberly and the add-on textures were created by other PA's. Hitomi is from MallenLane, Kimberly is 3D Universe, and the add on textures are made by Forbidden Whispers.

    As Richard states, with the DSON importer, the majority of Daz content works in Poser for the most part. Materials will be a sticking point since Poser uses very different materials, and the only way to ensure there's compatibility is to create separate materials for both. I think many PA's do own a copy of Poser and will make the necessary materials, but some might not so they would be unable to provide such materials..

  • Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    As I said in my original post - I realise that these are not Daz original products and I do not feel that the blame is with the PA's.

    The products are sold here at Daz, so surely before the products are packaged and added to the store they could carry out the conversions to make them compatible with Poser DSON.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,764
    edited December 1969

    As for the Supersuit I think it is more down to how it was made and how is uses the Smoothing and Collison Mod to fit the figures at default which is something that cannot be translated to Poser in the same way we DS users cannot use Poser Nodes based shaders. It is just one of those things. :)

    No comment on the other products. ;)

  • Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    That's something I didn't know about the supersuit, so it probably will never be converted. I assume that it just wouldn't be financially viable to create a new one similar to the gen 3/4 suits but for Genesis.

    A shame. Ah well, I suppose my superheroes and villains will all just have to be gen 4 then.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Correct me if this is wrong:

    But is it not true that everything can be made DSON compatible by running it through DAZ Studio 4.5?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,405
    edited December 1969

    Even if it is true that information does not help the pure Poser Users amongst us, but it actually sounds too simplistic to be accurate to me, but then I am not a DS user.

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 983
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Correct me if this is wrong:

    But is it not true that everything can be made DSON compatible by running it through DAZ Studio 4.5?

    With maybe a few exceptions, I think that's true.

    And to the OP, it's not exactly accurate to say that characters like Hitomi, etc., aren't Poser compatible because they are just morphs for Genesis, so if you install them to Genesis, they automatically show up in Genesis's dials in Poser. But the materials are still the problem.

  • Tim OGTim OG Posts: 1,142
    edited December 1969

    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,764
    edited December 1969

    That's something I didn't know about the supersuit, so it probably will never be converted. I assume that it just wouldn't be financially viable to create a new one similar to the gen 3/4 suits but for Genesis.

    A shame. Ah well, I suppose my superheroes and villains will all just have to be gen 4 then.

    just take note that I did say "I think" so it would be nice to get this claified. I will ask in the Supersiut thread later to make sure.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    Oooooo.... bring on the cheeze to go with the whine... :)

  • Tim OGTim OG Posts: 1,142
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    Oooooo.... bring on the cheeze to go with the whine... :)

    I'm a Studio user - great program. If Daz needs to spend more time and resources to make a product work better for Poser, I don't think Studio users should have to pay for that. No offense meant to anyone.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,405
    edited April 2013

    wancow said:
    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    Oooooo.... bring on the cheeze to go with the whine... :)

    Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
    Otto von Bismarck

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Correct me if this is wrong:

    But is it not true that everything can be made DSON compatible by running it through DAZ Studio 4.5?

    With maybe a few exceptions, I think that's true.

    And to the OP, it's not exactly accurate to say that characters like Hitomi, etc., aren't Poser compatible because they are just morphs for Genesis, so if you install them to Genesis, they automatically show up in Genesis's dials in Poser. But the materials are still the problem.

    My understanding was this, a DUF scene file will open in Poser via DSON just fine, no matter what was put into it... now, I don't use Poser, so I don't KNOW this, but I've been told this repeatedly from several different people. I would think it would be a simple thing to create a simple scene with whatever applied, save it, then open it in Poser... Doesn't D|S 4.5 have the ability to share the Poser Runtime as its default?

    IF (big IF) what I understand to be true is correct, than the vast majority of problems Poser users have with DSON would be solved if they'd simply run stuff through D|S first...

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited April 2013

    Not everyone can use DS (or wants to), and it would make sense to me that Daz and the PA's would want as much $ as possible for their products. So if they want our money keep making Poser compatible products. I'm not going to pay money for something and have to make it function properly myself. I'm not too concerned anymore whether Daz continues to sell Poser compatible products or not. Gen 4 support sure isn't slowing down anywhere but here.

    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    LOL! Why should we pay more for a Poser compatible product? I suppose that means DS users should pay more for vendors adding DS materials to a product then?

    Post edited by Christen on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited April 2013

    chohole said:
    wancow said:
    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    Oooooo.... bring on the cheeze to go with the whine... :)

    Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
    Otto von Bismarck

    I'm noticing that stick moving a bit more... assertively :)

    Post edited by wancow on
  • Tim OGTim OG Posts: 1,142
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:

    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    LOL! Why should we pay more for a Poser compatible product? I suppose that means DS users should pay more for vendors adding DS materials to a product then?

    I’m a Studio user - great program. If Daz needs to spend more time and resources to make a product work better for Poser, I don’t think Studio users should have to pay for that. No offense meant to anyone.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,405
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    wancow said:
    Correct me if this is wrong:

    But is it not true that everything can be made DSON compatible by running it through DAZ Studio 4.5?

    With maybe a few exceptions, I think that's true.

    And to the OP, it's not exactly accurate to say that characters like Hitomi, etc., aren't Poser compatible because they are just morphs for Genesis, so if you install them to Genesis, they automatically show up in Genesis's dials in Poser. But the materials are still the problem.

    My understanding was this, a DUF scene file will open in Poser via DSON just fine, no matter what was put into it... now, I don't use Poser, so I don't KNOW this, but I've been told this repeatedly from several different people. I would think it would be a simple thing to create a simple scene with whatever applied, save it, then open it in Poser... Doesn't D|S 4.5 have the ability to share the Poser Runtime as its default?

    IF (big IF) what I understand to be true is correct, than the vast majority of problems Poser users have with DSON would be solved if they'd simply run stuff through D|S first...

    The Idea of having the DSON importer is that Poser users can now use Genesis etc, without having to use DS. So we do not want to run stuff through DS first, because we do not have DS on our systems. Simple.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    TimG, to be fair, Poser Users who use Genesis DID pay for DSON :)
    http://www.daz3d.com/software/plugins-utilities/dson-importer-for-poser

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    The Idea of having the DSON importer is that Poser users can now use Genesis etc, without having to use DS. So we do not want to run stuff through DS first, because we do not have DS on our systems. Simple.

    Chohole, there's a huge problem with this!

    My wondeful friend Wilmap creates stuff exclusively in D|S 4.0 Format. None of which is DSON compatible till it's run through D|S 4.5.

    This is true of a LOT of free content, and the reason, they tell me, is that so many people cannot or will not (I personally think it's the latter) upgrade to D|S 4.5.

    By not having D|S 4.5 installed, Poser users who use Genesis are depriving themselves of a TONNE of content on ShareCG, not the least of which is Wilmap's entire wardrobe.

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    TimG said:
    Faerydae said:

    TimG said:
    Maybe Daz should consider having a second version of products at a slightly higher price point and make them Poser compatible.

    LOL! Why should we pay more for a Poser compatible product? I suppose that means DS users should pay more for vendors adding DS materials to a product then?

    I’m a Studio user - great program. If Daz needs to spend more time and resources to make a product work better for Poser, I don’t think Studio users should have to pay for that. No offense meant to anyone.

    So the same applies to products that are made to work better for DS then?


    wancow - I know you love to stir up drama any time a thread about Poser and Genesis is started to get it locked, but I'm not biting today :) I am curious though why these threads get you so riled up. You don't use Poser so why does Poser users wanting to use Genesis products bother you so much? It doesn't stop you from using Genesis in DS. Feel free to pm me so we can discuss your issues if you like.

  • Tim OGTim OG Posts: 1,142
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:

    So the same applies to products that are made to work better for DS then?

    If I was going to buy content from Smith Micro and they had to change their standard product to work with Studio, I'd expect to pay a little more.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,405
    edited April 2013

    AS I said before and will say again

    The Idea of having the DSON importer is that Poser users can now use Genesis etc, without having to use DS. So we do not want to run stuff through DS first, because we do not have DS on our systems. Simple.

    DAZ 3D made the DSON importer for the benefit of Poser users.

    So please can we avoid stirring up the same tired old arguments again thus causing this thread to be locked.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:
    wancow - I know you love to stir up drama any time a thread about Poser and Genesis is started to get it locked, but I'm not biting today :) I am curious though why these threads get you so riled up. You don't use Poser so why does Poser users wanting to use Genesis products bother you so much? It doesn't stop you from using Genesis in DS. Feel free to pm me so we can discuss your issues if you like.

    Not trying at all :)

    Actually, I'm fully supportive of Poser users having access to Genesis. All I'm trying to convey is that if you're unwilling to install D|S 4.5, you're depriving yourself of a lot of content, especially FREE content.

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 218
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Faerydae said:
    wancow - I know you love to stir up drama any time a thread about Poser and Genesis is started to get it locked, but I'm not biting today :) I am curious though why these threads get you so riled up. You don't use Poser so why does Poser users wanting to use Genesis products bother you so much? It doesn't stop you from using Genesis in DS. Feel free to pm me so we can discuss your issues if you like.

    Not trying at all :)

    Actually, I'm fully supportive of Poser users having access to Genesis. All I'm trying to convey is that if you're unwilling to install D|S 4.5, you're depriving yourself of a lot of content, especially FREE content.

    I installed it, and as I've said too many times, it does not work for me. Just like previous versions of DS. That's how I ended up with Poser to begin with. I can run Poser, Vue, PS, etc. (even all of them at the same time!) with no issues whatsoever. DS has never worked on any computer I've owned. I'm done trying.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    So please can we avoid stirring up the same tired old arguments again thus causing this thread to be locked.

    And my point stands. A lot of Genesis content out there is for DS4.0, which is not DSON compatable.

    Here's some of the stuff you can't use in Poser without running it through D|S4.5:

    http://www.sharecg.com/pf/full_uploads.php?pf_user_name=wilmap

    OH! By the way, Chohole, would you mind terribly telling me if these works in Poser?
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/67985/view/21/DAZ-Studio/WC-Samantha-Hair-for-Genesis
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/68154/view/21/DAZ-Studio/WC-Belle-Ball-Gown

  • ForbiddenWhispersForbiddenWhispers Posts: 591
    edited April 2013

    Hey there,

    If you have a problem with a vendors product, maybe you should contact said vendor via PM and discuss with them privately instead of bringing the issue into a public forum?

    Add-on Textures for Real Jeanz for Genesis - Released today, The base model is Poser compatible, but none of the add-on packs are. <--- the reason being for this. I didn't know until last minute that the JeanZ had been made DSON compatiable. The JeanZ and add-on packs had been tested for a schedualed release date, so the DSON files couldn't be tested on time for release. So the choice was made to release them at the same time as the JeanZ, as they're for Genesis anyway. I had given the testers my DSON files for both packs and am just waiting on testing. They will be added in asap.

    If you look in my store, you will see I have consistently been a Poser and DS supportive vendor. I've made buildings, hair models, characters for both Genesis/M4/V4 and lighting packs ALL dual software compatiable.

    It really does annoy & upset me how people jump to conclusions. The way it came across in your post, is that I 'couldn't be bothered' to offer Poser support. When that IS NOT the case. If I've offered cross compatiable support for years, why would I stop now?

    Post edited by ForbiddenWhispers on
  • Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    It really does annoy & upset me how people jump to conclusions. The way it came across in your post, is that I 'couldn't be bothered' to offer Poser support. When that IS NOT the case. If I've offered cross compatiable support for years, why would I stop now?


    In the first post that I made at the start of the thread, and in a later post, I specifically stated:

    "But I don’t hold the artists responsible because all of these products are being sold in the Daz store."

    and

    "I realise that these are not Daz original products and I do not feel that the blame is with the PA’s."


    So I'll say it again - I don't blame any of the PA's for not making their products Poser compatible, simply because many PA's do not own Poser. Daz owns the store, so it is their responsibility to make their products compatible with Poser if they want Poser users to continue using Genesis and DSON.

    There have been some very constructive posts so far in this thread regarding how Poser users could use DS-only genesis products. If it really is as simple as running the product through DS, then why don't Daz get one of their staff to do that?

    Like many others, I do not have DS installed on my system. Having tried several versions before 1.0, then version 3 and 4, and having had problems with all of them, I do not see the point of having it on my machine.

    If that means losing out on free content, then so be it - many of us missed out on a lot of content when we couldn't use Genesis. Yes, we could have used DS, but we either can't or won't.

    The idea of paying extra for Poser compatibility is an interesting one. If the price was low enough then I would be willing to pay it. Maybe an add-on pack for some existing models which had been run through DS and then had the textures optimised for Poser.

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