i love daz studio, but i was harshly made fun of in a contest. why?

noved123noved123 Posts: 0
edited April 2013 in New Users

i entered a pretty well made (in my opinion) render, which contained all custom items that i made in maya, and some in z-brush. it even had lighting that i custom scripted myself. when i told them i had used daz studio to render, i was laughed at by everyone in the contest, they told me never to submit anything from poser or daz...but iv always loved daz studio, so im not understanding, is it not acceptable to use it?

Post edited by noved123 on
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Comments

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,645
    edited December 1969

    Was this on CGtalk at CGsociety by any chance?
    they are a bunch of utter snobs, don't bother with them

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 2,571
    edited December 1969

    They are just twits who don't have a clue. Since you did all your own stuff they couldn't snub you for that.. and they don't realize that studio is a 3delight render engine. No doubt if you had said 3delight rather than studio they would have been all gushy. Just talk it up to them being to full of themselves to actually be informed about anything.

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    thats what i was thinking, i mean, if daz was so unacceptable like they said, then there wouldent be great sites like Runtime DNA and sharceCG i think.

    Post edited by noved123 on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    When you submit a render to any contest, so long as you're following the rules, tell them you rendered in 3Delight! That IS a TOP end Professional Render Engine. It's second only to RenderMan. DAZ Studio uses 3Delight, so you don't have to spill that you composed the image in D|S. You made a whole lot of custom stuff for your renderr (by the way, I want to see that render, please post it so we can), but the "Gods" of 3D cast a very nasty gaze upon the low end applications like D|S and Poser for one reason alone: it comes with pre-made figures. To them, that is sacrilege, and you must be cast out, burned at the stake, anything to keep their world pure...

    If I were you, and I'm not you, so take this any way you want, I'd fly under the radar... Say: Models built in Wings3D (that will absolutely make them impressed :) ) rendered in 3Delight via RIB file... :) (You can export to RIB from D|S to 3Delight Stand Alone and get identical results as you can in D|S natively... it's the exact same engine).

    This way, you' do not utter the ugly "RENDERED IN AN APPLICATION MADE FOR THE UNWASHED MASSES WHO THINK THEY'RE ACTUALLY 3D ARTISTS BUT TAINT US ALL WITH THEIR DIRTY 'ART'" word... as in Poser or DAZ Studio... I wonder how they feel about iClone... hmmmmm.....

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    i knew people with real knowledge would uplift me here. it stung pretty bad, as it was my first public render showing...but i understand the realities pretty well now. next time, i will take your advice on labeling my render.

    ps. yes i can show the render, but i have only ever used the forums, and bought things from the shop, but i have yet to post any renders here, so how would i go about doing that? :D

    Post edited by noved123 on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    Under the text field for a post is the Choose File Button. That will let you Post a image. To post two or more you do Choose file then Preview Post and then Add the second Image , Preview Post and Add the Third on up to 5 images or a total of 9999KB total.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    the catagory was "worlds and weather" this is the render right here. its the first one i ever made as well, its not the amazing stuff you see on the gallery, but its ok for a small render. i used a fully custom lighting script and hand painted those textures, and splashed them onto some primitives i baked up.

    TheBlackCoast.jpg
    1333 x 750 - 541K
    Post edited by noved123 on
  • SloshSlosh Posts: 1,616
    edited December 1969

    That is a very nice image, friend. As a 12 year ZBrush user, also well versed in Lightwave and Maya and Poser and Studio, I am offended that you received such bad treatment. Besides, it's not as if you plastered it full of Michaels and Victorias and store-bought outfits. Not that I would find that a crime, but you know the "purists" would drop a brick. Anyway, put that incident behind you and keep working. I think you will find that there are plenty of communities that will treat you the way you deserve. I feel like using curse-words here, but I will take the high road.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,596
    edited April 2013

    Well, here's my input in one word-
    AWESOME.

    And in one word, I can sum up why you got that treatment-
    JEALOUS.

    Or two words-
    HORRIFICALLY JEALOUS.

    You rock, baby!
    Cathie
    (Edit: I'm a former national magazine artist, I know good art when I see it.)

    Post edited by Novica on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,003
    edited December 1969

    People who are actually working full time in digital graphics do not have time for that kind of nonsense. When you see someone sneering that you used a specific program, you are often hearing from someone who can't make a living in 3d, is bitter about it, and is using the excuse to themselves that it's because they didn't take the "easy route" using "inferior" programs.


    Dismiss them from your mind. Wancow's advice is not bad advice either if you think it will help.


    I think the image has a great water shader and a nice composition. I would maybe tone down the fog a little next time, or try to have it be less uniform, but that's one person's opinion.

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    at this point, consider my spirit renewed. it really is nice to see that those CG gods blinded people were the minority in their opinion :D

    -one must have an extreme level of comprehension to have the understanding of tech that you seem to, Slosh.

    -yeah SickleYield, i thought maybe the heavy fog would justify that rainbow, when i first put it in the code to bake. but it almost seems to muddy the textures on that hill, now that im looking closer. i am more used to doing character/item modeling in z-brush really. this was the first worldspace

    -well thank you Novica, seeing a compliment from someone of your credentials is making me want to get right to baking up more renders

    Post edited by noved123 on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited April 2013

    Well, it's pretty hard to fault your artwork, it's gorgeous. I'm additionally impressed since you created the models used too.

    I don't think a lot of people realise just how much work can go into making renders look good, so they see Daz Studio as 'easy mode' for art. And it's not hard to see why, in all honesty. One look at DeviantArt will show you literally hundreds of images which are basically 'Pose and click' types with no effort put into lighting or post work. With so many people putting in so little effort, so-called 'Poser' art got a bad reputation early on with ugly images flooding the internet. Most notable was the use of Poser as an erotic medium, which lead to several websites housing pages full of scantily clad or naked characters, none of which were well composed or rendered.

    With so many ugly artworks all over the place, Poser pretty much cemented itself as a tool for people who had no artistic talent of their own in the minds of many. Daz sadly inherited it to a lesser extent since it's a similar breed of software. But that is one of the reasons I still grimace to this day when I see an 'effortless' piece of art posted from Daz Studio or Poser. I'm still remembering the bad name the software was given in its early days by people of similar talent.

    Remember, it's not the tool which counts, it's the artist. Out of interest, where was this contest taking place? I shall remember to avoid it in future.

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    indeed, when i first did research into daz and poser way back, i saw hundreds of images id rather forget. but i also saw renders that would make A playstation 3 owner drool with wonder and amazment. i think a good comparison would be something as simple as a painting canvas. you can make something as the mona lisa, or you can toss some dirt and grass at it and be done. it the same with 3D, poser, z-brush, and such. you can make an entire video game series or CG artwork, or you can make badly rendered snuff animations. its all in the person. as with any skill.

    Post edited by noved123 on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    I think the major reason that Poser was seen that way is because it's easier to start with. You're given figures and props which you can render out of the box, and there is a lot of content available for purchase or free download which can be added to the scene. The accessibility is what lead to there being so many poor images made using the software, which in turn lead to it's poor reputation.

    I do agree though, the artist makes all the difference.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,788
    edited December 1969

    I have to disagree with Wancow, why twist things to suit other people perceptions and ignorance. I entered a comp a few years back and got second place with a Bryce render just behind the winning Vue image. Ok it wasn't a huge comp but it won me Poser 8 and I was considered green (novice) at that stage and I was up against people who had been doing this for some years. As others have said it's not the tool but how we use it.

    Yes the comments hurt and I can understand that but you have to learn that not all comments about our art are going to be nice all the time, got to get a thick skin quickly. :) Also how you feel about the image is what counts, it doesn't matter if the world hates it, if you enjoyed making it and enjoyed learning making it then surely that is what counts the most.

    Looking at this image in context with your newness and what you made yourself you should be over the moon with the result...no it isn't a masterpiece, just like my first images and some recent ones, which is to be expected but it is a darn good start.

    I also applaud you for having the courage to enter the image. A lot of new users shy away from this believing their images aren't good enough.

  • 3dLux3dLux Posts: 745
    edited December 1969

    noved123 said:
    the catagory was "worlds and weather" this is the render right here. its the first one i ever made as well, its not the amazing stuff you see on the gallery, but its ok for a small render. i used a fully custom lighting script and hand painted those textures, and splashed them onto some primitives i baked up.

    noved, for a first render this is a whole can of whoopass :cheese:

    And considering you made the assets in Maya and ZBrush and custom scripted the lighting :bug: You should hold your head up high, dude :-)

    Here's a thread that may speak to you: it's about those who use software associated with prebuilt content and what they face in websites fulla tools.

    Chin up, bucko; you've done yourself proud :)

  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 473
    edited December 1969

    noved123 said:
    i entered a pretty well made (in my opinion) render, which contained all custom items that i made in maya, and some in z-brush. it even had lighting that i custom scripted myself. when i told them i had used daz studio to render, i was laughed at by everyone in the contest, they told me never to submit anything from poser or daz...but iv always loved daz studio, so im not understanding, is it not acceptable to use it?

    Unfortunately the freedom of the internet allows for freedom of stupidity to be shared....don't be put off by some snobbish sentiments. If they were true artists they would understand that it's not the tools you use to make your artwork that matters. And if there was something they felt could be improved they should have had the decency to give some helpful, friendly advice, especially as it was your first render.

    Ignore them and keep on with your artwork!:-)

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    its obvious i am dealing with artists of a higher caliber than those who caused my soul stab at that comp. which, quite frankly, has renewed my creativity. i am probably going to spend all night on z-brush, channeling the daylights out of this encouragement. :D

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    I hope you'll share your work with the rest of us when you're done. Despite you being fairly new to the software, you're off to a fantastic start in my opinion. The forums are full of friendly folk, so if you ever get stuck trying to achieve certain effects or if you have difficulty with content just ask. I've only been using Daz Studio since around October last year but I've found it pretty easy to get stuck into. So much so it's overtaken Poser as a favourite now.

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    well, i could show you the first render i made that has characters in it, i did manage to put this together awhile ago. it uses the standard genesis figure accept highly shader modified. and it was not rendered in daz studio, rather a standalone 3delight engine script. (pretty much the same)

    ps. is their a part of the forums or gallery soley for posting your renders? ill head over to that one and share more, because to be honest, i thought my work was no where near fit to be shown, but now i see i simply had low confidence in my self :D

    them3.jpg
    810 x 607 - 78K
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,788
    edited April 2013

    yep you are an artist indeed with the self flagellating attitude you have like so many here me included. Many times I have thought an image was not good enough for me which a high number of folks loved. That image is not good you say but in truth it is pretty darn good. Like the water too. Yes the figures could have more emotion on their faces and some ripples around the legs. But overall I like it.

    So you aren't new to this then by the looks?

    Post edited by Szark on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Here you go http://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/2/ start your own thread so I can see all your great art.

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    Szark, i am new to rendering and 3d presentation in general, but i have had formal training in the use of Z-Brush, and mostly make models for video game modifications like skyrim or the fallout series, things like that. so yes im new to actually making the things i model look shaded and visually appealing, but not to the modelling. i even ported some models from some video games into 3DSmax to try animating them....not as simple as i thought lol...though i did manage to make batman do a harlem shake dance.

    Post edited by noved123 on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,788
    edited December 1969

    noved123 said:
    though i did manage to make batman to a harlem shake dance.
    watching Batman will never be the same again now with that image in my mind. :P

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    If only I could convert MMD files into BVH I might get my Hare Hare Yukai dance with ChibiBel or Sadie. You can keep your Harlem Shakes :D

  • noved123noved123 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    hey, the harlem shakes are the piller of our civilization. how dare you sir. :D

    ps. i made a gallery. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20102/

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,645
    edited April 2013

    If only I could convert MMD files into BVH I might get my Hare Hare Yukai dance with ChibiBel or Sadie. You can keep your Harlem Shakes :D

    LiveAnimation http://www.drf.co.jp/liveanimation/index_en.html

    Post edited by JaguarElla on
  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,645
    edited December 1969

    don't ask me how though, no idea

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    I've tried that. To say the results were odd would be an understatement. There's almost no bend in the limbs, so it's like watching a marionette (a puppet, not a fat, cross-dressing plumber) or some horribly mutated creature from the black lagoon. The horrors I have seen cannot be unseen.

  • whispers65whispers65 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    noved123 said:
    well, i could show you the first render i made that has characters in it, i did manage to put this together awhile ago. it uses the standard genesis figure accept highly shader modified. and it was not rendered in daz studio, rather a standalone 3delight engine script. (pretty much the same)

    ps. is their a part of the forums or gallery soley for posting your renders? ill head over to that one and share more, because to be honest, i thought my work was no where near fit to be shown, but now i see i simply had low confidence in my self :D

    Wow great pic and so was the other! If you work isn't fit to be shown then I should never post mine lol. I've seen lots of different posts and your's are nice!

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