Digital Art Zone

 
   
6 of 7
6
WIP Thread for New User Contest - April 2013
Posted: 22 April 2013 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7911
Joined  2009-05-14
here is what I came up with in 20 minutes of looking

First I researched what marble these statues were made of.
Then looked for info on white marble and found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble
Also, the low index of refraction of calcite allows light to penetrate several millimeters into the stone before being scattered out, resulting in the characteristic waxy look which gives "life" to marble


This tells us that
A: white marble has an IOR value and
B; it does indeed have SSS and
C; we know the effect is very shallow, close to the surface

So I went looking for info on calcite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcite
http://refractiveindex.info/?group=CRYSTALS&material=CaCO3 plus other sources that report an IOR of between 1.5 and 1.9.

I then went searching more to verify these findings.

So we know what colour the SSS will be, an off white as nothing is pure white not even white marble. smile
SSS strength well that is the question, no idea, try 100% first and test render.
We now know what SSS IOR value to enter, 1.5 – 1.9 you chose what value or go looking for more in-depth information. wink
SSS scale, well if the Daz Studio defaults measurements apply then 1.00 is one CM so 0.02 would be two mil.

SSS group is not needed here.
 Signature 

Pete

Somethings to Consider when starting to learn CG

My Gallery

My Render Thread and Tutorials

Proud member of the Bald Wizards Club and Co-operative

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2013 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  108
Joined  2012-05-25
Thank you for your responses. I haven't had a great deal of time to experiment today, but I hope I've made some progress.

I should have said that I am using DAZ Studio 4.5. The preset is Subsurface Stone - I just found it in Smart Content -> Shaders -> Stone (with a surface selected). The preset sets the IoR to 1.5, so I've left it there. I've reduced the diffuse (I think the SSS effect is tied to it) on most off the hair surfaces, but having fiddled a great deal, returned the rest of the settings to their defaults.

In the previous image, the lights were the preset from Classic Deco. However the render times were a bit lengthy, even to get a spot render after an adjustment, so I've changed to some more simple lighting. In this image there's a distant light coming in at approx 45 degrees from left of camera (intesity 65%, deep shadow map, shadow softness 5%, shadow bias 0.2) and a spot coming down from upper right of camera (intensity 35%, spread 180, deep shadow map, shadow softness 4%, shadow bias 0.2).

Changing the shadow bias made a big difference to the glowing hair.

Render settings are for speed not quality smile
Image Attachments
3g_simple_lights2.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2013 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3555
Joined  2012-02-06
dhmcvey - 22 April 2013 05:34 PM
Thank you for your responses. I haven't had a great deal of time to experiment today, but I hope I've made some progress.

I should have said that I am using DAZ Studio 4.5. The preset is Subsurface Stone - I just found it in Smart Content -> Shaders -> Stone (with a surface selected). The preset sets the IoR to 1.5, so I've left it there. I've reduced the diffuse (I think the SSS effect is tied to it) on most off the hair surfaces, but having fiddled a great deal, returned the rest of the settings to their defaults.

In the previous image, the lights were the preset from Classic Deco. However the render times were a bit lengthy, even to get a spot render after an adjustment, so I've changed to some more simple lighting. In this image there's a distant light coming in at approx 45 degrees from left of camera (intesity 65%, deep shadow map, shadow softness 5%, shadow bias 0.2) and a spot coming down from upper right of camera (intensity 35%, spread 180, deep shadow map, shadow softness 4%, shadow bias 0.2).

Changing the shadow bias made a big difference to the glowing hair.

Render settings are for speed not quality smile

Yes...looks like you're making progress. Doing test renders with settings optimized for speed makes a lot of sense, but I'd recommend against using the OpenGL render engine (Quality Level 1, 2, or 3) instead of 3Delight (Quality Level 4) when testing out surface settings or shaders, as the results can look drastically different. Not sure if this is what you're doing, but I thought it was worth mentioning...
 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2013 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16477
Joined  2009-01-22
dhmcvey - 22 April 2013 05:34 PM
Thank you for your responses. I haven't had a great deal of time to experiment today, but I hope I've made some progress.
I Like the Idea. But to me the shaders from the figure to the bathing suits do not MELD or blend. If this was carved from one block of stone all the surface's would match 100%. They would all be just different shapes carved on the one surface.

Check the settings on the bathing suits and compare those to the surface of the figures.

What I see so far are statues that a person has dressed with clothing, not statues carved from a solid stone.
 Signature 

Exile, Drows Walk: A Tale of Jaderail starts here. Free pulp fiction at its Fantasy best, Updated 2/3/14.
Proud Member of the Bald Wizards Club My stuff at DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 April 2013 04:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7911
Joined  2009-05-14
dhmcvey - 22 April 2013 05:34 PM
I've reduced the diffuse (I think the SSS effect is tied to it)
Just so you don't always think this I thought best to correct you...SSS does not effect or tied to Diffuse in fact many surface channels work independently from each other.
 Signature 

Pete

Somethings to Consider when starting to learn CG

My Gallery

My Render Thread and Tutorials

Proud member of the Bald Wizards Club and Co-operative

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 April 2013 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3555
Joined  2012-02-06
Szark - 23 April 2013 04:46 AM
dhmcvey - 22 April 2013 05:34 PM
I've reduced the diffuse (I think the SSS effect is tied to it)
Just so you don't always think this I thought best to correct you...SSS does not effect or tied to Diffuse in fact many surface channels work independently from each other.

SSS controls (or rather simulates) how light is scattered as it passes through an object's surface. As Szark said, the amount of scattering is not affected at all by changing things like the Diffuse settings.

However, the way the surface appears to the viewer is the result of the interaction of all the various materials settings with the lighting in the scene. So changing the diffuse settings could impact the extent to which the SSS is visibly apparent. Rawn (RawArt) has a good tutorial on SSS here in which he recommends lowering the diffuse strength to 70% (of course, that's for human skin...you may need different values for other materials like stone).
 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 April 2013 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  108
Joined  2012-05-25
Scott-Livingston - 22 April 2013 09:13 PM

Yes...looks like you're making progress. Doing test renders with settings optimized for speed makes a lot of sense, but I'd recommend against using the OpenGL render engine (Quality Level 1, 2, or 3) instead of 3Delight (Quality Level 4) when testing out surface settings or shaders, as the results can look drastically different. Not sure if this is what you're doing, but I thought it was worth mentioning...


Thanks - I just meant that I hadn't set a high quality shading rate, upped the pixel samples etc. I am rendering with 3Delight.

Jaderail - 22 April 2013 11:08 PM
If this was carved from one block of stone all the surface's would match 100%. They would all be just different shapes carved on the one surface.

Check the settings on the bathing suits and compare those to the surface of the figures.

What I see so far are statues that a person has dressed with clothing, not statues carved from a solid stone.


This is the big problem I've been having. If I use the same settings on the clothing and hair as I do on the figure 'skin', then the clothes and hair are far too bright - because they're thin and therefore treated as 'more translucent' by the shader, I guess.

Here's another render after adjusting the clothing surfaces. I've reduced the Ambient, Diffuse and Specular sliders on all the pieces of clothing to around 50%. Getting closer, I think.
Image Attachments
3g_simple_lights4.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 April 2013 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3555
Joined  2012-02-06
For DS users who also use (or would like to try) Bryce:

Here are some quick instructions on using the Bryce-to-DS bridge and importing your DS props and figures into Bryce...where you can apply a wide variety of interesting Bryce materials to them.

1. Log in to your system as an Administrator.
2. Open Bryce and click the DAZ Studio Bridge button (looks like the DAZ 3D logo).
3. Select your version of DAZ Studio and it will open.
4. In DAZ Studio, load the figure or prop you want to export to Bryce
5. Do any necessary morphing and posing (you won't be able to do this in Bryce)
6. Click File>Send To Bryce
7. In Bryce, you'll be able to rescale and reposition your item, and apply materials to it

This is a decent starting point when it comes to learning Bryce and Bryce materials: http://www.pxleyes.com/tutorial/bryce/1218/Absolute-Beginners-Guide-to-Bryce.html

There are TONS of Bryce tutorials available here: http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html and on other sites (including the Bryce forum here at daz3d.com). I'm still a beginner when it comes to Bryce, but I'm enjoying learning how to use it.

The image shows Genesis (Stephanie 5) imported into Bryce and retextured as a terrain. There's still a LOT of room for improvement (for instance, I haven't done much with the lighting or atmosphere) but I wanted to get this posted before the month gets much older.

In case it's not clear what you're looking at, Stephanie is lying on her back. The camera is near her chin, pointed down towards her feet. The "mountain" is her left knee, and the toes on her right foot are visible in the distance.
Image Attachments
body2a.jpg
 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 April 2013 10:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16477
Joined  2009-01-22
dhmcvey - 23 April 2013 05:01 PM
This is the big problem I've been having. If I use the same settings on the clothing and hair as I do on the figure 'skin', then the clothes and hair are far too bright - because they're thin and therefore treated as 'more translucent' by the shader, I guess.

Here's another render after adjusting the clothing surfaces. I've reduced the Ambient, Diffuse and Specular sliders on all the pieces of clothing to around 50%. Getting closer, I think.
LOOKING Much better. Your on it now.
 Signature 

Exile, Drows Walk: A Tale of Jaderail starts here. Free pulp fiction at its Fantasy best, Updated 2/3/14.
Proud Member of the Bald Wizards Club My stuff at DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 April 2013 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  654
Joined  2012-12-30
Thanks for all the examples, lots to learn from this thread. I haven't ventured into Bryce yet but one of these days.....

sithkitten - 21 April 2013 01:00 PM
Well, here's where I'm at now with my image. I really, really, really wanted to use Luxus for this one, but there's just too much I need to learn yet to get the thing to look right. At the moment, rendered in Luxus with the bits of tweaking I know how to do, there's still way too many issues to resolve before the contest ends. So I stuck with point-based occlusion, which I do like a lot.
Anyway, this is where I'm at now. Nreed, that's your egg texture giving the skin its mottled look. Thanks again!
As always, any comments are welcome. And evilproducer, that's an awesome wall! I've wanted to learn Carrara for a while now, but my mind always lets out pathetic whimpering noises and runs away when I try.


I love the viewpoint on this, it's almost like the tail is starting some clever golden spiral. Can't wait to see the finished render.
[ Edited: 24 April 2013 04:34 PM by Jindi ]
 Signature 

Head on over to Art Studio for Novica and Invited Contributors Tips and Reviews
External links: Historic Sale and Deal Data (updated daily)  | What I’ve been doing as a Blender Citizen member

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2013 06:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  134
Joined  2005-02-08
Scott-Livingston - 23 April 2013 09:44 PM
For DS users who also use (or would like to try) Bryce:

Here are some quick instructions on using the Bryce-to-DS bridge and importing your DS props and figures into Bryce...where you can apply a wide variety of interesting Bryce materials to them.

Ahh, Bryce. Just for the heck of it, after I read this last night I exported my girl and her dragon into Bryce. Ten minutes later, I had gorgeous lighting and the materials almost exactly the way I want them. As opposed to the hours of fiddling I've been doing in Studio to get even close to what I want. *sigh* Dratted honesty. I should never have let the cat out of the bag that I've used Bryce forever! LOL
 Signature 

the Evil Kitten Project

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2013 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  128
Joined  2012-11-22
Hi,

I've been having computer issues so I haven't been as active as I would have liked this month. Although I had retextured an outfit in my original post, I decided to go in a different direction. I'm attempting to learn how to use LuxRender and it's shaders. I've really struggled but this "New User Contest" has encouraged me to explore and learn more about shaders and textures. Anyhow in the attached picture, I used a copper shader on the texture of the dress, a glass shader on the eyes, a glossy translucent shader on the hair and changed the specular, diffuse, transmission and absorption colors on the skin. It's not where I want it to be and I'd like to try the skin techniques that @Slosh is using in LuxRender and has kindly shared in the Common Forum, however I don't know if I'll get an opportunity to attempt this before the end of the month. On different note, I truly am appreciative of this community and the willingness of everyone to help each other learn. Thank you!
Image Attachments
April-Challenge1.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2013 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  134
Joined  2005-02-08
You are braver than I. I wimped out on trying to get my entry to work right in LuxRender. So much to learn, so little time!
If I might make a suggestion: I think your lady would stand out very nicely against a different color background. Might just be because I'm super tired, but she blends right in to the background to my eyes. Maybe something green, or blue...
 Signature 

the Evil Kitten Project

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 April 2013 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  128
Joined  2012-11-22
Hi @sithkitten,

Thank you for the suggestion smile I'll try it.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 April 2013 05:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1012
Joined  2007-04-08
I've been working on something in Carrara since I saw this thread. Sadly I haven't been able to work in it for as long at a time as I'd like, but I'm definitely getting to grips with it.

Carrara's shaders remind me of the Filter Forge setup, but in a different way. Probably because of the various noise and turbulence settings. I'm really enjoying playing with them.

I'm working on an almost complete re-work of Howie Farkes' fantastic DarkWald set and a very ethereal Vicky who is still very much a work in progress, I haven't decided at all what to do with her. I might make her scary, or I might make her thoughtful, or cute, I don't know yet. I have three rough sketches for pose ideas and for facial expressions. Problem is I like all of them and I'm running out of time so need to make decisions.

Here's my last render, but it's several works behind where I'm at now.

I am going to work on the pose now, and some more shaders for ground and the smaller mushrooms.

Constructive criticism is most welcome :D

Image Attachments
GlowyVicky3.jpg
 Signature 

You’re never too old for metaballs!  ~Michael Frank

Profile
 
 
   
6 of 7
6