Volumetric lights and transmap Issues

Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
edited June 2012 in The Commons

Is it possible to get volumetric lights to shine through transmapped areas and actually working? Eg I have a tree and transmapped leaves but when I apply a volumetric light all the transmap planes are visible and I have a tree with all these squares and my god rays cast shadows around those. Is there a solution to this?

Post edited by Zev0 on

Comments

  • Rayman29Rayman29 Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    I dont know about a fix in 3delight, but transmaps with fog does work when using Reality 2.0

    Post edited by Rayman29 on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2012

    To me, Fog and Volumetric are two different things. Fog works fine with transmap in DAZ Studio. Its volumetric vs transmap that is the issue. Volumetric creates the effect below. I can get this with a full polygon tree with polygon leaves but not transmapped leaves. To be specific I am using this

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/atmospheric-effects-cameras-for-daz-studio/

    Man-with-a-pike-covered-with-fur-in-the-forest-wallpaper_2919.jpg
    500 x 313 - 102K
    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I don't do much with volumetric lighting, but if you're seeing a consistently reproducible issue then please file a bug report on it. That's the best route to getting it fixed. Thanks!

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2012

    Thats the thing. Is it a bug Or just a software limitation? Or is there a setting I am overlooking? I don't want to file a bug report unless it definately is one.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    What's your raytrace depth set to? Remember for transparency it has to be [layers of transparency] +1 for any type of shadow/special effect to work.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2012

    Where is that setting? Oh found it. Mine is set on 2

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Doubtful that is high enough. That would be only a single transmapped leaf of thickness. I'm wondering if it's even possible to set it high enough to work. LOL. The old default used to be 6, you might try that, but even that assumes that there's no point where you will have more than 5 leaves in a row before you get to the ground...

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    I'll bump it up and do a test render and see what happens..

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Be prepared for a massive render time hit. ^_^

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    OK did my test render and its the same story. Bumped the Ray trace depth up to 10. I used this tree because it is a combination of polygon and transmap. The top part is polygon, hense no issues. On the trunk is transmapped areas. Notice the white transmap blocks.

    test.jpg
    500 x 389 - 72K
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'd say a bug report is in order.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    OK. I'll submit one. Thanks

  • Age of ArmourAge of Armour Posts: 426
    edited December 1969

    Hi Zev0,

    Thanks for reporting the bug. This is something that I and the testers missed before releasing the cameras. We did test with transparency but, evidently, the situations we tested under didn't produce the flaw or the error was so faint we didn't notice it.

    At this stage I think I know what the issue is but I haven't yet figured out how to correct it. I am able to lessen the problem in some cases by changing the start distance to 0 and increasing the end distance (You may need to increase the limits of the slider to allow this). This does not eliminate the problem and may not even lessen it in all cases but it may be worth a try.

    Please forgive me for not noticing it pre-release and for not having a proper fix yet. I will continue to work on the camera to see if I can't find a solution then update it.

    Sorry about the problems,

    William

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 3,484
    edited December 1969

    Was this problem ever resolved with an update?

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    Not that I know of. I still use it a lot though, just now when I use the volume camera I use less transmapped objects. Its also dependant on what lights you have in the scene. Sometimes its not so bad, but still an isue.

  • Age of ArmourAge of Armour Posts: 426
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    Was this problem ever resolved with an update?

    No, there has not been an update though the issue has not been forgotten. The cameras do work in DS 4.5 but the issue with the volumetric camera showing transparent objects slightly darker or lighter than they should be is still there. It is a very puzzling issue and, so far, I have not found a solution.

    The only thing I can recommend at this point is to set the Distance Start setting in the Volume camera to 0 and increase the quality as it lessens the inconsistency. You can virtually eliminate the transparency problem by adjusting those 2 settings.

    Honestly, the fact that the quality setting affects the strength of the volume inside transparencies proves to me something is not working quite right. Unfortunately the code to correct it has eluded me so far.

    Here are two possible ways to lessen the issue.

    Solution 1: Set the Volume Distance Start at 0 and the quality to 99%

    Solution 2: With lower quality settings, turn off the limits on the Distance Start Parameter and set it to a value slightly less than 1. In my tests a Distance Start setting of -0.25 Meters worked the best when the quality setting was at 50%. A Distance Start at -0.42 gave the best results when the quality setting was at 10%.

    The lower the Distance Start setting the brighter the fog inside transparent objects became. So if you are using a low quality setting and your transmapped objects are too dark then try setting the start distance to a small negative value. If they are too bright then try increasing the start distance a little bit.

    Solution 1 gives the best results but does take longer to render. I'll post some examples from my tests.

    Qual99_Dist0.jpg
    640 x 360 - 26K
    Qual50_DistNeg0.25_.jpg
    640 x 360 - 32K
    Qual50_Dist0.jpg
    640 x 360 - 32K
    NoTrans.jpg
    640 x 360 - 27K
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    But the effect is different with a transparent obj compared to a transmapped obj. With transmapped the obj is at full opacity but is masked out by a transparency texture, which is where the problem lies isn't it? I'll do more testing on my side. As stated before this is a fantastic product and I hope something can be done.:)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,196
    edited December 1969

    ....yes been running into a similar issue.

    For example the JeanZ for V4 use transmaps for the shorter legging styles. In the pic below I applied the "short shorts" style and you can still see an outline of the full length legging transmap. Shortening the leggings by turning off the shin and thigh zones doesn't work as it doesn't give a smooth clean edge.

    kaylee_volume.jpg
    800 x 800 - 339K
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited December 1969

    Ye. Its even worse when the light is coming from behind towards you.

  • Age of ArmourAge of Armour Posts: 426
    edited December 1969

    Sorry for not replying yesterday... It was a busy day.

    I did do additional tests with transparency maps and my results were the same where setting the Distance Start to 0 and the quality high eliminated the problem with transparency. Also using the second method of setting the Distance start to slightly lower than 1 when using lower quality settings helped lessen the issue too. All these tests were done in DS 4.5.

    Just to be sure I did a few with a bright light behind the transmapped objects with and without shadows. Here are some examples of the high quality tests.

    Qual99_Trans3.jpg
    640 x 360 - 21K
    Qual99_Trans2.jpg
    500 x 650 - 30K
    Qual99_Trans1.jpg
    640 x 360 - 54K
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,642
    edited September 2012

    WOW. Thanks for looking into this. I will use these settings. Those example are perfect for what I need.

    What is the settings for the fog density, light density in your last 3 examples? Also what brightness is that light set on?

    Post edited by Zev0 on
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