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SSS shaders
Posted: 04 May 2013 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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Szark - 04 May 2013 04:48 AM

using all the lighting set to Diffuse light only and use one Specular only light can give more control over specular highlights.

For me, I’d set up my basic lights, UE, directional, point etc.. whatever I’m using in the scene, then add spec only as needed. If spec was getting blown out I would then start turning spec off in the other lights. Not that this is a better work flow, just one that works for me. Whether you start at the right and go left, or start at the left and go right.. you reach the same point wink

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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Szark - 04 May 2013 04:37 AM

Sertorial I haven’t forgotten just not had the time to sit down and dig out my eyes settings. I will try today.

Mark128
Why are you using Fresnel on Skin?
Ambient is a cheep way of lighting up shadows etc, I and many people I know that use these shaders do not use any Ambient of surfaces prefering to let the light do that job.
Transluceny is a fake too and as Omnifreaker said himself for skin you don’t need to use it.

Diffuse colour. Putting the diffuse to White will increase the red that is in the skin texture, hence way it was blusih origianally and why it is more pink. The red we try to inject with SSS so my advice is drop the red in the diffuse colour channel.
IOR for skin is 1.39 - 1.14
SSS scale try 0.50

There is not right or wrong way to set all this up just good and bad results.

For anyone that really wants to learn this stuff then learn about the real thing. It is all out there. All IOR values are out there too for all body parts. This setting up these shaders is a balance between each channel, many subtle but the trick is not to over do colours, keep them staturated as much as you can. Always set up you skin in white light.

And have you noticed the ON/OFF toggle for each channel. Good way to test things is to remove the skin maps and then turn off all the channel barring one and test render, turn that off, turn another on and test render. This way you will see the effect without the other effects getting in the way. Also when testing each channel change the colour to a very extreme bright colour this will make the effect more visable.

The Std and USS settings were all vendor supplied. The Briallen character comes with two sets of skin materials. One using the Std shader and one using the USS shader (although it is labeled HSS material). The only change I made was to correct what I thought was a mistake in the USS shader for the face. The subsurface color for the face used a black and white ‘S’ texture that was also used as the specular strength texture. All the other skin regions other than the face used a ‘SD’ texture that looked like the diffuse texture with more red or pink in it. There was a ‘SD’ texture for the face too, so I changed it.

From reading the UberSurface doc I think Fresnel only effects reflection in UberSurface and reflection was turned off. I think leaving Fresnel on should have no effect. This is not true in UberSurface2, where Fresnel also effects specular.

I was really surprised at the amount of ambient being used in the std mat. I have seen small amounts used on lots of skin mats, but I don’t think I have seen this much before (color of 255, 240, 239, strength of 31.7%) There is no ambient in the USS mats. I think this is a big reason the USS skin looks darker.

I think this vendor has set the subsurface to be weak. The strength is 10% and they have a black and white texture in the subsurface strength that only has white or grey areas on the nose, cheeks and a strip between lips and chin.

The vendor seems to have chosen to use translucency more than subsurface. There is a texture in the Translucency color which is a pale version of the diffusion texture. The translucency strength is 25% but with the same control texture as the subsurface (nose, cheeks, between lips and chin).

What is the rational for only using subsurface/translucency on some parts of the skin and not others?

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Posted: 04 May 2013 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Deleted, was a repeat.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 04:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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mark128 - 04 May 2013 01:13 AM

The first thing I noticed is the skin looks darker with the USS shader.

I have confirmed that the USS skin looks darker because it does not use ambient like the std shader does.

In this image I am using a single UberArea light plane which is camera left. This shows renders with the Std material, the Std material with all skin ambient set to zero and the diffuse color changed to white, the USS material. In the render with the Std material you can clearly see on the side of the head which is in the shadows, how much the ambient light is contributing. There are some differences in the specular hightlights between the Std No Ambient and the USS renders, but this is not surprising since the specular sections of the shaders are setup quite different.

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Posted: 04 May 2013 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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While they are not settings I would think of off the top, the results don’t look bad.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 01:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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I spent a lot of time playing around with this texture using UberSurface and UberSurface2.

The render below is with UberSurface2:

Diffuse: strength 80%, color white.

Specular: strength 8%, color white, glossiness 15%, sharpness 0%.

Fresnel: off

Ambient: off

Reflection: off

Velvet: off

Subsurface: on, color white, strength 20%, refraction 1.3, scale 1, back scatter boost 2, Scatter Color 139, 10, 0, Scatter strength 1.98, Absorption Color 244, 128, 0, Absorption Strength 0.70 (this is skin3 preset for uberSurface2).

Translucency:  off

Specular2: off

Edit: replaced the pic, better lighting.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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mark128 - 04 May 2013 03:05 PM

The Briallen character comes with two sets of skin materials. One using the Std shader and one using the USS shader (although it is labeled HSS material).

What’s the difference between the HSS shader and the USS shader? (both by Omnifreaker). BTW I really wish he’d make more videos. He’s only made like three and he’s got loads of complicated products that need explaining!

Szark - 04 May 2013 04:37 AM

Sertorial I haven’t forgotten just not had the time to sit down and dig out my eyes settings. I will try today.

Thanks smile

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Posted: 05 May 2013 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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Sertorial - 05 May 2013 04:35 PM
mark128 - 04 May 2013 03:05 PM

The Briallen character comes with two sets of skin materials. One using the Std shader and one using the USS shader (although it is labeled HSS material).

What’s the difference between the HSS shader and the USS shader? (both by Omnifreaker). BTW I really wish he’d make more videos. He’s only made like three and he’s got loads of complicated products that need explaining!

UberSurface is an enhancement of the HumanSurface shader. Both are included free now with DAZ Studio. This link outlines the enhancements: http://www.omnifreaker.com/index.php?title=UberSurface

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Posted: 07 May 2013 12:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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Sertorial - 05 May 2013 04:35 PM
Szark - 04 May 2013 04:37 AM

Sertorial I haven’t forgotten just not had the time to sit down and dig out my eyes settings. I will try today.

Thanks smile

I must apologise Sertorial for not getting the info. The problem is I set a render off on Firday evening and it is only 25% done..yep 4 whole days and counting. well 5 really and I can’t get to my Uber Surface 2 testing scene with the settings in until the render finsihes. I am hoping once it gets past the transmapped area the render should get faster. As soon as it does finish the first thing i will do is to dig out the info for you. I am really sorry about this.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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Ok Eyes.

Here are my Cornea settings http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/10835/P105/#270994

As for the other parts like Lacrimal and Sclera there have the same IOR and skin, 1.39 and for Genesis I would use the same Specular setting as the Cornea as unlike the Gen 4 figure Geneisis doesn’t have a EyeSurface materail zone which we used to use for Reflections.

Iris and Pupil need no SSS just Specular 1 will do, try the Cornea Spec settings.

BUT Spec settings are dependent on your lighting so you do need to test and adjust as need.

In fact that goes with all surafces no matter what shader or textures you use for any material. There is no avoiding testing if you wnat good results.

Also there have been a few threads lately about SSS Scale and Shading Rates and I have tested them and they do work.

SSS Scale 0.10
SSS Shading rate 1 or 2. Higher SSS shading rates or for Translucent materials like thin things like paper etc.

Also when setting up Spec 2 you will need to turn off SPec 1 and test render Spec 2 settings, then once you are happy turn spec 1 back on and test again.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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Szark - 09 May 2013 09:48 PM

Ok Eyes.

Here are my Cornea settings http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/10835/P105/#270994

As for the other parts like Lacrimal and Sclera there have the same IOR and skin, 1.39 and for Genesis I would use the same Specular setting as the Cornea as unlike the Gen 4 figure Geneisis doesn’t have a EyeSurface materail zone which we used to use for Reflections.

Iris and Pupil need no SSS just Specular 1 will do, try the Cornea Spec settings.

BUT Spec settings are dependent on your lighting so you do need to test and adjust as need.

In fact that goes with all surafces no matter what shader or textures you use for any material. There is no avoiding testing if you wnat good results.

Also there have been a few threads lately about SSS Scale and Shading Rates and I have tested them and they do work.

SSS Scale 0.10
SSS Shading rate 1 or 2. Higher SSS shading rates or for Translucent materials like thin things like paper etc.

Also when setting up Spec 2 you will need to turn off SPec 1 and test render Spec 2 settings, then once you are happy turn spec 1 back on and test again.

Thanks so much for this. And please don’t worry about the delay. Really not a problem. I just appreciate all the help I can get (and that’s loads on this fine forum smile )

I think what i plan to do is set up all my US settings on one figure then just copy and ctrl-paste them to any other figures I want. Unless there is some way to save a surface as a preset ?? Don’t know. Would be handy if there were.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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You can remove all the maps and save a material preset and use CTRL when applying and choose to Ignore replacing maps.

BUT there won’t be one set of settings for different Skin textures…you have to treat each skin set separately. Though things like SSS settings will be the same and will give you a starting point.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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Szark - 10 May 2013 07:03 AM

You can remove all the maps and save a material preset and use CTRL when applying and choose to Ignore replacing maps.

BUT there won’t be one set of settings for different Skin textures…you have to treat each skin set separately. Though things like SSS settings will be the same and will give you a starting point.

So here is my image with the corneas done (not exactly sure which bit of the eye the cornea is, but…). First render is just with a UE2 and KH Park HDR map and the second render is with the ART_Andrea GYT light set (AOIBL)

Why does it have those funny looking reflections tho? There’s nothing else in the scene.. (unless maybe it’s the HDR image I stuck on the UE2 light (KH Park)? Is that possible? Does that work like a background that could reflect in the eyes?)

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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It is a good start Sertorial. Keep at it.smile

No the UE2 sphere won’t reflect in the cornea and without any thing to reflect you will get some weird results.

This is fixed either by using a reflection map or placing a plane with an image on behind the camera to one side so there is something to reflect. Or you could load a new Sphere and apply a map to that.

I like doing both type of reflections, real and fake, it just depends on what the image is.

Also I have found that reflection strength depends on the lighting. I have found using Distant lights etc you need to drop the reflection strength down more and if using Area lights then those settings should work fine.

If you don’t know what a cornea is Google it and on Wikipedia there is a break down of the eye showing which part is which. I must admit learning all this has taught me a lot about anatomy and latin names of muscles and various body parts.

The Scalea (eye whites) are on the blue side in your image, I like to go for a very light grey to white.

You maybe interested in this product http://www.daz3d.com/actual-eyes-3 for Genesis eyes. It has great textures, settings and reflection maps as shown below in a WIP I am doing at the moment, testing some Uber Surface 2 settings I have recently learnt. Here I am using fake reflections on the cornea using a reflection map. I need to adjust the positioning of the area lights too, to avoid the dark shadow line going down the the face.

The skin texture set is http://www.daz3d.com/v5-elite-skin-texture-valerie with SSS strength maps from http://www.daz3d.com/interjection-surface-injections-for-daz-studio Just .the maps not the settings. I dont like the coloured SSS strength maps that come with the texture set as they won’t work in Uber Surface 2 as the SSS scatter colour doesn’t accept maps.

I had to lower the red channel of the Diffuse colour a little to compensate for the red coming from the SSS.

What I did to set this up was to remove all the maps and set the diffuse colour to a mid gray then turned all the other channels off baring one, say Spec 1 and did a test render, adjust and test again. The I would turn that off and test Spec 2, adjust and render. Once I was happy I turned my attention to Fresnel, Bump then SSS all the time turning off the previous channel. Once I was happy I manually loaded the texture maps back inand turned on the channels and test rendered.

This was lit with two Area lights and UE2 (sotfbox HDRI preset) set to Indirect Lighting with Soft shadows on High preset but changied the UE2 Shading Rate down to 1 from 8. This is needed when using IDL, sometimes you may need to go as low as 0.10 but it does depend on what you are rendering.  It took me 3 hours to render at a little larger (I had to crop the bare breasts off to post here). I don’t have a very good machine either.

I have still got a lot more adjusting to do like on the ears, like increasing back scatter boost or increasing the IDL strength in UE2 as I had it on 75% which is ok for Distant and spots but not for Area lighting.

I also removed the spec maps completely.

When I am done I can save the settings and send them to anyone who wants them to look over. Obviously I can’t send the maps with them as that would be breaking the EULA. wink But at least you can see what settings I used.

Anymore in the scene and it will crash so I am glad I could get this done without DS4.5 crashing.

Advanced render settings at default apart from Shading Rate at 0.10.

Hope this helps.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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PS that second image is so much better, nice. smile

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