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SSS shaders
Posted: 27 March 2013 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I have a V4 character which comes with and SSS shader and a simpler shader.

I think it was designed with Poser 9 in mind, but will an SSS shader work with DS4.5?

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Posted: 27 March 2013 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Not if they are pure Poser settings. if they have a little scroll icon at top-left of the thumbnail, indicating a DAZ Studio native file will fun when they are loaded, then they may have two different settings, one with SSS and one without.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 27 March 2013 01:39 PM

Not if they are pure Poser settings. if they have a little scroll icon at top-left of the thumbnail, indicating a DAZ Studio native file will fun when they are loaded, then they may have two different settings, one with SSS and one without.

the character seems to be under \libraries\pose for some odd reason. Under that there are two folders one labelled “simple” and one labelled “SSS” with all the morphs for the character and the .PZ2 files that load up the textures. But the filenames in the two directories seem to be the same. Is it that the .PZ2 file in one folder calls a normal shader and the one in the other calls this special SSS shader (if it’s being done in Poser)?

Presumably, as I am using DS it won’t matter which one I load?

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Posted: 27 March 2013 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Most Poser materials can be found under ‘Pose’, so that much is normal. In general SSS doesn’t translate well from Poser materials as it requires specific parameters which the Daz default shader doesn’t support. As such it will probably require some manual work to get the SSS working in Daz Studio. Use the UberSurface shader which comes with Daz to add SSS to an existing surface. If you hold CTRL when adding it, you can set it to ignore all the main changes, so it retains the settings of the Poser surface.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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It isn’t that DS doesn’t support SSS, it does - the problem is that only the most basic of settings are read for Poser material files, which is why I said it would work only if there were native DS materials for both variants. Since it appears there aren’t any native files in there it’s not going to look as good as it should without some work, unless of course there are DS materials in a separate installer or in another folder.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 27 March 2013 04:47 PM

It isn’t that DS doesn’t support SSS, it does - the problem is that only the most basic of settings are read for Poser material files, which is why I said it would work only if there were native DS materials for both variants. Since it appears there aren’t any native files in there it’s not going to look as good as it should without some work, unless of course there are DS materials in a separate installer or in another folder.

sorry, what do you mean by “native” DS materials?

When I load the .PZ2 file (after first applying the morph to V4) it seems to just load the skin of the character. Is that a bit like a .DUF file of a character preset? i.e. it tells DS to load the relevant MAT for the skin surface?

What I dont understand is why the .PZ2 filenames are all the same in the two folders (simple and SSS)? Where is the shader file? Is that somewhere else then? Or is it an instruction of some sort in the .PZ2 file?

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Posted: 27 March 2013 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Yes, DS does support SSS but not via the “Daz Default Material” which it likes to convert most Poser mats into. For that it would need to convert to HumanShader or UberSurface which are often used on the majority of skin textures for characters like Vicky and Aiko.

While it would need some additional work, there’s no reason you can’t get similar if not identical results in Daz Studio if you manually change the surface material. The Poser mat can do most of the hard work, while you just add the fine-tuning.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 05:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 05:51 PM

While it would need some additional work, there’s no reason you can’t get similar if not identical results in Daz Studio if you manually change the surface material. The Poser mat can do most of the hard work, while you just add the fine-tuning.

Can you? The SSS effect always travels right through the figure for me no matter what the scale is.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 05:54 PM
HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 05:51 PM

While it would need some additional work, there’s no reason you can’t get similar if not identical results in Daz Studio if you manually change the surface material. The Poser mat can do most of the hard work, while you just add the fine-tuning.

Can you? The SSS effect always travels right through the figure for me no matter what the scale is.

I’ve not had that issue, so it might be down to your settings. Bear in mind that some of the SSS maps available for certain characters have high amounts of scatter in certain parts of the body, especially in the face. This can lead to very bright spots even if there’s no back facing light. For those areas, I usually tone down the SSS to compensate.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 06:00 PM
Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 05:54 PM
HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 05:51 PM

While it would need some additional work, there’s no reason you can’t get similar if not identical results in Daz Studio if you manually change the surface material. The Poser mat can do most of the hard work, while you just add the fine-tuning.

Can you? The SSS effect always travels right through the figure for me no matter what the scale is.

I’ve not had that issue, so it might be down to your settings. Bear in mind that some of the SSS maps available for certain characters have high amounts of scatter in certain parts of the body, especially in the face. This can lead to very bright spots even if there’s no back facing light. For those areas, I usually tone down the SSS to compensate.

Does it not really take the figure itself into account then? I can put a light directly behind a character and no matter the scale, parts that aren’t blocked out from the effect [like the lips] still light up.

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Posted: 27 March 2013 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 06:12 PM

Does it not really take the figure itself into account then? I can put a light directly behind a character and no matter the scale, parts that aren’t blocked out from the effect [like the lips] still light up.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have the Translucency strength set to? I’ve noticed that for a lot of characters—especially those where things are set for Poser—Translucency strength is MUCH too high. One character lit up like an alarm light whenever he was around any strong lighting, and it took me forever to figure out that the problem was that his default translucency strength was 100%, and it should have been somewhere in the 5-10% range. (It should usually be that low for most human characters in Studio, as I understand it.)

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Posted: 27 March 2013 09:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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vwrangler - 27 March 2013 07:54 PM
Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 06:12 PM

Does it not really take the figure itself into account then? I can put a light directly behind a character and no matter the scale, parts that aren’t blocked out from the effect [like the lips] still light up.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have the Translucency strength set to? I’ve noticed that for a lot of characters—especially those where things are set for Poser—Translucency strength is MUCH too high. One character lit up like an alarm light whenever he was around any strong lighting, and it took me forever to figure out that the problem was that his default translucency strength was 100%, and it should have been somewhere in the 5-10% range. (It should usually be that low for most human characters in Studio, as I understand it.)

No translucency.

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Posted: 28 March 2013 12:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 09:58 PM
vwrangler - 27 March 2013 07:54 PM
Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 06:12 PM

Does it not really take the figure itself into account then? I can put a light directly behind a character and no matter the scale, parts that aren’t blocked out from the effect [like the lips] still light up.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have the Translucency strength set to? I’ve noticed that for a lot of characters—especially those where things are set for Poser—Translucency strength is MUCH too high. One character lit up like an alarm light whenever he was around any strong lighting, and it took me forever to figure out that the problem was that his default translucency strength was 100%, and it should have been somewhere in the 5-10% range. (It should usually be that low for most human characters in Studio, as I understand it.)

No translucency.

Hmm.  Well, pfeh. I got nothin’.

The only thing I can think is that maybe Subsurface strength itself might be too high. I generally have it in the 10-25% range, depending on how fair the character is. Other than that, I have no clue. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful.

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Posted: 28 March 2013 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Sertorial - 27 March 2013 05:49 PM
Richard Haseltine - 27 March 2013 04:47 PM

It isn’t that DS doesn’t support SSS, it does - the problem is that only the most basic of settings are read for Poser material files, which is why I said it would work only if there were native DS materials for both variants. Since it appears there aren’t any native files in there it’s not going to look as good as it should without some work, unless of course there are DS materials in a separate installer or in another folder.

sorry, what do you mean by “native” DS materials?

When I load the .PZ2 file (after first applying the morph to V4) it seems to just load the skin of the character. Is that a bit like a .DUF file of a character preset? i.e. it tells DS to load the relevant MAT for the skin surface?

What I dont understand is why the .PZ2 filenames are all the same in the two folders (simple and SSS)? Where is the shader file? Is that somewhere else then? Or is it an instruction of some sort in the .PZ2 file?

Back to the problem at hand. First what Skin set is it? Did you but it from here? Can we have a link please?

Ok PZ2 is not a Default Daz material. ,ds, .dsb, .dsa, duf are all Daz Material formats, the first 3 being the older, Duf being the new one. PZ2 can be material and/or a Pose and/or a shaping preset (from memory)

A Poser PZ2 SSS Preset would be 99% of the time Poser Mats and probably Poser 9. Now if the vender did not provide any DS mat presets then I would have to guess that the Skin set was Poser only. This is not to say you cannot use them in Daz Studio it just means you will have to do it manually using Uber Surface which comes with Daz Studio as standard.

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Posted: 28 March 2013 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 06:12 PM
HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 06:00 PM
Agent_Unawares - 27 March 2013 05:54 PM
HeraldOfFire - 27 March 2013 05:51 PM

While it would need some additional work, there’s no reason you can’t get similar if not identical results in Daz Studio if you manually change the surface material. The Poser mat can do most of the hard work, while you just add the fine-tuning.

Can you? The SSS effect always travels right through the figure for me no matter what the scale is.

I’ve not had that issue, so it might be down to your settings. Bear in mind that some of the SSS maps available for certain characters have high amounts of scatter in certain parts of the body, especially in the face. This can lead to very bright spots even if there’s no back facing light. For those areas, I usually tone down the SSS to compensate.

Does it not really take the figure itself into account then? I can put a light directly behind a character and no matter the scale, parts that aren’t blocked out from the effect [like the lips] still light up.

Did you look at ambient? What lights where you using and were they using Deep Shadow Maps or Raytraced Shadows? What was your Max Ray Traced Depth value in the Advanced Render Setting Pane? And that is just the start of finding out why you get what you get.

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Posted: 28 March 2013 05:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Is the light casting shadows? If not the lips are quite a thin area on the mesh, so even with Scale turned down I wouldn’t be unduly surprised if light falling on the inside of the mouth was being transmitted through. Also, check the teeth and tongue are in a separate Subsurface group from the face.

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