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Octane Render plugin for DAZ Studio by Otoy
Posted: 29 March 2013 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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A simple render that uses just enough subsurface scattering to take the edge off the texture.
Direct light with ambient occlusion to provide a gentle blue ambient and 1 main mesh light.

7 minute render using a gtx480

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Posted: 29 March 2013 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Wiseavatar - 29 March 2013 04:05 PM

A simple render that uses just enough subsurface scattering to take the edge off the texture.
Direct light with ambient occlusion to provide a gentle blue ambient and 1 main mesh light.

7 minute render using a gtx480

This looks so amazing. I absolutely love the light and skin tone.

When I see images like that I really get motivated to dig deeper and find out how subsurface scattering in Octane works.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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V5 rendered with the Octane Render for Daz Studio plugin. Pathtracing with 2 meshlights, GTX 660 TI 2GB.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Yup, quite nice result @ Wiseavatar. Did you use the sss texture provided in the Bree set for the transmission/absorption slot? Or how did you build your shader?

Btw, when some of you actually find some good combinations for materials, make sure to upload them into the LiveDB, so it will be shared with the others.

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Posted: 18 May 2013 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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hi, i’m interested to buy a license, but i’m scared about the texture size / vram problem.
How i can estimate the vram needed for render a scene?

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Posted: 18 May 2013 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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genfro - 18 May 2013 05:59 AM

hi, i’m interested to buy a license, but i’m scared about the texture size / vram problem.
How i can estimate the vram needed for render a scene?

I don’t know of a real easy specific way to estimate it other than adding everything up, but there may be one. Geometry usually doesn’t take up much memory, but the textures, their size and your final render size will help determine how much memory you will need. Stonemason scenes like Streets of Asia can take up to 400 MB when optimized. Some folks use DAZ Texture Atlas reducing the common texture size by half and combine textures. I don’t have the plugin yet. I do know early adopters of the Octane beta had no problem getting V4 and M4 and a small scene into Octane on lesser Nvidia cards with around 500MB. But you should try to get a card (if you don’t already have one) that will have at least 2GB of VRAM and those are plentiful now at much lower prices. You can do it with 1.2 or 1.5GB. The goal of many Octane users is to save for a Titan card (6GB). But most of the newer Nvidia cards out the past year (if it begins with a 6 in the number, except, I think for one of the lower CUDA Core cards) or so can handle a higher number of textures - more than the older cards, and there’s still a limit but most wiill not reach it. For performance speed you will need more CUDA cores.

Here’s a link to the forums that might have more info and an easier way to estimate it. I only had time to look over this page (I think it’s accessible to the public):

http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23663&start=10

 

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Posted: 18 May 2013 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 18 May 2013 06:23 AM

But you should try to get a card (if you don’t already have one) that will have at least 2GB of VRAM and those are plentiful now at much lower prices. You can do it with 1.2 or 1.5GB. The goal of many Octane users is to save for a Titan card (6GB).

This pretty much sums it up.

- - -

My personal user experience is based on a

Asus GTX660 Ti DCII OC, 2048MB GDDR5, 6008/967 MHz

- - -

It is very important to stress that high resolution 4000x4000 textures really take up much space. Especially if PA use high resolution ones for every single material zone no matter how small it ends up being in the final render.

Examples: Stonemason and Dream Light transform into Octane very well without even reaching the limits on my 2GB card.

Most Jack Tomalin scenes will flood the VRAM very quickly.

- - -

To work with this the octane plugin has the option to load only the geometry. After the geometry is loaded you then have the option from directly the octane render viewport to select any material surface that is still untextured white and load the DS presets for that specific surface.

This way you can pretty much keep the texture count low by only loading those textures that will be visible.

- - -

Another big help is the Octane live material database. Instead of using textures that stress the VRAM you can use Octane Shaders.

- - -

Which card to buy now?

If I would buy a card right now with a low budget I would try to get a card with at least 3GB of VRAM.
If you are lucky you can find a 3GB version of the GTX660 Ti .
If a Titan is too expensive maybe the next few months will see new options.
Some consumer level Titan cards are rumored.

If you are a patient person who does not expect a complete scene to fit into the VRAM and are up for a bit of memory managing 2GB may be enough if you do not want to render images much larger than 1920x1080.


- - -

VRAM calculations:

This was posted on the octane user forum. I hope it is ok if I post this here as well:

The question was:

Can someone point me in the direction of a forum thread / webpage where VRAM and how its size is calculated is explained?

The answer was:

don’t know one; it is easy to tell for textures:
- a grayscale image needs x pixels * y pixels in bytes
- a color image needs x pixels * y pixels * 4 in bytes

note: the plugin/octane only uses a texture map once per type; if you use the same image in 10 slots while maintaining the same type (floatimage vs. image) it’ll need vram only once. if you mix types, octane will need vram once per type. the way how octane finds out about multiple uses of the same texture map by the way is the path on disk; using the very same image map from different locations will also require more vram.

in addition the render film (aka output image) - as long as stored in vram…
- needs x pixels * y pixels * 20 in bytes
(this is because the render film holds not only 4 bytes of color data, but additional data need to calculate tonemapping, post processing, ...)

you can neglect node parameter data; this ranges in kilobytes.

the geometry itself would need to be counted; and the plain number of triangles don’t exactly result in the vram size needed, since octane does something called voxelizing, where at least i don’t know a formula to calculate the real need. hopefully we see some additional stats from the octane plugin version anytime soon, so it would be possible to at least show those numbers when voxelizing is done.

if you like to do some research yourself, you may use the standalone - there you will get all those numbers, including geometry data ram usage…


I can only add that the VRAM size of the actual render may push past the limits if you want to render out images at larger sizes like 4000x6000. That was one aspect I did originally not think about. If you set up scenes for testing and have the preview at 720x480 in most cases it was no issue to raise the render size to 1920x1080. But sometimes when I wanted to push past that to 6000x4000 I was out of VRAM again and had to make some more adjustments.

- - -

The best thing to do atm seems to get the Octane Render stand alone demo and see how that works for you.

A demo for the DS plugin for Octane may be released when most bugs are dealt with.


- - -

 

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Posted: 18 May 2013 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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The images rendered with Octane look fantastic.  As a point of reference would it be possible for people to post render times in DAZ render engine as well so we can compare time savings and quality?

I have a GT470 with 1.25GB RAM so it probably won’t be worthwhile buying Octane until I upgrade the card.  The trouble is that the GT6xx cards don’t work very well with Sony Vegas so I’m in a bit of a dilemma about whether to upgrade the card.

The cost of Octane is pretty high compared to the price range of the rest of DAZ products.  Especially factoring in the cost of upgrading the graphics card.  I understand that for Lightwave/MAX/Maya users it’s not expensive compared to the cost of their software but if I could afford 280 euro’s for a render engine then I probably wouldn’t be investing in DAZ.

But if it means at least 10 times faster renders with far better quality then I would be sorely tempted.

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Posted: 18 May 2013 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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thanks for the answers! grin
I don’t own a nvidia card, so if i can’t try the demo, if i decide to buy octane :(

do you think the memory occupation of the 3delight stand alone while rendering a rib files can be indicative of the cost in vram of the scene (without optimization)? Actually i don’t use more than 4gb of ram rendering images, using the smallest squares.

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Posted: 18 May 2013 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Superdog - 18 May 2013 08:45 AM

As a point of reference would it be possible for people to post render times in DAZ render engine as well so we can compare time savings and quality?


I do not want to start an “app war” by comparing different rendering engines in this thread.

I started a new thread to compare different render engines:


http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/22339/

genfro - 18 May 2013 08:58 AM

do you think the memory occupation of the 3delight stand alone while rendering a rib files can be indicative of the cost in vram of the scene (without optimization)? Actually i don’t use more than 4gb of ram rendering images, using the smallest squares.

Would also be interested to know if RAM can be used to estimate VRAM.

I do not know.

I assume though that there are some differences or lets say optimizations that could lower the required VRAM space in relation to RAM space.

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Posted: 18 May 2013 03:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Superdog - 18 May 2013 08:45 AM

The images rendered with Octane look fantastic.  As a point of reference would it be possible for people to post render times in DAZ render engine as well so we can compare time savings and quality?

I have a GT470 with 1.25GB RAM so it probably won’t be worthwhile buying Octane until I upgrade the card.  The trouble is that the GT6xx cards don’t work very well with Sony Vegas so I’m in a bit of a dilemma about whether to upgrade the card.

The cost of Octane is pretty high compared to the price range of the rest of DAZ products.  Especially factoring in the cost of upgrading the graphics card.  I understand that for Lightwave/MAX/Maya users it’s not expensive compared to the cost of their software but if I could afford 280 euro’s for a render engine then I probably wouldn’t be investing in DAZ.

But if it means at least 10 times faster renders with far better quality then I would be sorely tempted.

Actually, you have a card that’s well respected over on the Octane forum. It’s fast and if you watch your textures you’ll be happy until you can upgrade your card. Many folks never come close to filling up their VRAM.

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Posted: 18 May 2013 08:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 18 May 2013 03:46 PM
Superdog - 18 May 2013 08:45 AM

The images rendered with Octane look fantastic.  As a point of reference would it be possible for people to post render times in DAZ render engine as well so we can compare time savings and quality?

I have a GT470 with 1.25GB RAM so it probably won’t be worthwhile buying Octane until I upgrade the card.  The trouble is that the GT6xx cards don’t work very well with Sony Vegas so I’m in a bit of a dilemma about whether to upgrade the card.

The cost of Octane is pretty high compared to the price range of the rest of DAZ products.  Especially factoring in the cost of upgrading the graphics card.  I understand that for Lightwave/MAX/Maya users it’s not expensive compared to the cost of their software but if I could afford 280 euro’s for a render engine then I probably wouldn’t be investing in DAZ.

But if it means at least 10 times faster renders with far better quality then I would be sorely tempted.

Actually, you have a card that’s well respected over on the Octane forum. It’s fast and if you watch your textures you’ll be happy until you can upgrade your card. Many folks never come close to filling up their VRAM.

It can be surprising - I did a test render of 12 Genesis figures and it all fitted in the 4GB of the graphics card.  Anderson Hall, by itself, blows past the 4GB ... wink

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Posted: 18 May 2013 11:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 18 May 2013 03:46 PM

Actually, you have a card that’s well respected over on the Octane forum. It’s fast and if you watch your textures you’ll be happy until you can upgrade your card. Many folks never come close to filling up their VRAM.

SimonJM - 18 May 2013 08:08 PM

It can be surprising - I did a test render of 12 Genesis figures and it all fitted in the 4GB of the graphics card.  Anderson Hall, by itself, blows past the 4GB ... wink

With a bit of material management one can really fit quite a lot in the VRAM.

Here a quick overview how you can go about it:

- - -

- In the “Settings” Tab of the Octane Render Plugin for DS leave the option “Automatic Material Updates after content loads” unchecked
This causes that only the geometry is loaded in the scene. Everthing will have the octane default material in the Octane Render Plugin Viewport

Screenshot:

Automatic material updates unchecked The library

- - -

- With the mouse you can point on any surface in the “Octane Render Plugin Viewport” to select and open it in the “Octane Material Tab”
You can then right click the material zone and select “Create as New”. This will load the DS material into the Scene.

Screenshot:

Materials Create as new Platea

- - -

- In the Octane Plugin System tab you can find a visual representation in the form of a Bar Graph how much space you have left in the VRAM.
It also tells you how many more of each type of map / texture type you can load.

Loading non colored bump or transparency maps will use less space then colored textures.

Loading only the geometry without any maps does not take up much space.

Example: Only the geometry of “Platea”  from Jack Tomalin uses only 206 MB of theVRAM
This is represented by the orange part of the bar. The light grey part is the space left and the black is the part of the VRAM used by other applications that may be running as well. In the example image it is photoshop that is running.

Screenshot

VRAM geometry only Platea

- - -

- Instead of loading textures you can choose from a huge library of Octane Materials that other users created and then put online.
Any materials other users created can be automatically downloaded onto your system.
You can choose if that database is autoupdated each day or only then when you want.

In the Octane live DB you can choose “octane shaders” that will create a surface without stressing the VRAM or you can also load some material presets with tiling textures optimized for Octane.

Screenshot:

live db Bamboo Floor example

- - -

- And last but not least you can create your own materials in the Octane Node Graph Editor - NGE.

In theory you can build a whole scene with octane shaders that will only use a very small part of the VRAM.

Screenshot:

lycan subsurface scattering experiments v1001

- - -

Actually starting out with a card that has only 1.5 or 2 GB of VRAM may even be a good thing.
This way you learn from the start how to manage your scenes and come up with creative ways to use the limits of your VRAM.

 

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Posted: 05 June 2013 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I add this here because it would seem silly to make a new topic because of it and maybe other Octane users will run into the same question sooner or later when they want to upgrade to addtional video cards:

Is it true that Octane is limited to the lowest amount of VRAM your cards have?

Example:

If you buy a GTX Titan with 6 GB of VRAM and use it in combination with a GTX 780 that has 3 GB of VRAM you will be limited to only 3 GB.

If that is true it would be most recommended to only combine cards that feature the same amount of VRAM.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

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Posted: 05 June 2013 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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linvanchene - 05 June 2013 10:21 AM

I add this here because it would seem silly to make a new topic because of it and maybe other Octane users will run into the same question sooner or later when they want to upgrade to addtional video cards:

Is it true that Octane is limited to the lowest amount of VRAM your cards have?

Example:

If you buy a GTX Titan with 6 GB of VRAM and use it in combination with a GTX 780 that has 3 GB of VRAM you will be limited to only 3 GB.

If that is true it would be most recommended to only combine cards that feature the same amount of VRAM.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

If you are running multiple cards to render they each must have the same amount of VRAM. If you are using two cards, one for display only and one for render only, it doesn’t matter as only one card will be involved in the rendering. If you have two cards rendering, both cards are doing the same calculations so they must have the same amount of VRAM to each hold the same data.

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