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Strange deformation of Genesis footwear on Genesis characters?
Posted: 24 March 2013 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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masi3vee - 24 March 2013 08:14 AM

kita, thanks for the reply, and the screenshot.  Before I saw your reply, I removed the Stalker Girl morph from the one character in question, and the issue went away.  So the SG morph is definitely the source of the problem.  It seems to hate shoes.

So, on another character with that morph, wearing platform shoes, I looked at the scale for both the character and the shoes… both 100%.  I selected the shoes, and in the Parameters, was able to fiddle with the JCM for the toes, and the issue was minimized, but not entirely solved.  There is still a little bit of distortion under/in front of the big toe, and the shoe is a little too big.  Fooling with the scale causes other issues, so I might just have to accept this as an interim fix.

It seems to me that I need to find a way to load the SG morph without affecting the feet.  I still have not been able to save a default foot preset successfully.  It’s a pity, because SG is a beautiful, versatile package.  But it eats shoes.

I’ve got that character, so I was able to tinker a bit, just to see if I could replicate the issue.

When I first put the OKL Boots 2 on her, the toe and sole were terribly deformed, but then when I applied the foot pose that comes with the boots, the issue went away completely. This is, however, the only set of shoes I tested that I can say that about.

PB Mary Janes and PB Ballerina Flats and, not surprisingly, the Stalker Girl Boots were fine. Dark Moods boots (low heels, no foot pose) were fine. B9999 Chelsea Boots (low heels, no foot pose) were mostly fine—there’s a tiny wrinkle just behind the toes, but if you’re not looking or doing a really closeup render of the foot, it’s not something that can be seen.

Then I put her in Pumps for V5, used its accompanying foot pose, and the issue didn’t go away. (See image below)

The shoes from Lynette’s Dark Rites (red and black shoes below), which also have foot poses, were kind of interestingly terrible. The Bow Shoes from the new A5 outfit are ... less horrifyingly terrible after applying the foot pose, but still somewhat deformed over the entire foot area. The low heels with Bewitching for Genesis are deformed, but not a huge amount—however, the deformation doesn’t go away when the foot pose is applied.

Doing “Show Hidden Properties” and dialing out the FBMStalkerGirl morph mostly—but not entirely—fixes the issue but also partially unscales the shoe. Dialing out the JCMs completely fixes the problem ... and also completely unscales the shoe, as mentioned by masi3vee

I also tried SG as an additive morph for another V5 character. Lather, rinse, repeat, second verse (or sets of shoes) same as the first, if maybe a bit less intense.

It looks like the issue may be primarily with shoes that require a pose to deform the foot to be used. I thought the age of the shoe and whether or not it was built to accommodate either SG herself or more extreme scaled characters like A5 might be a factor, but every single one of the shoes that didn’t have issues was built long before either SG or A5, and Bow Dress Shoes were built *for* A5, so that’s not it.

It looks like, in general, low or flat shoes should be OK. Shoes with heels will be problematic. No idea why.

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Posted: 24 March 2013 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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vwrangler - 24 March 2013 01:15 PM
masi3vee - 24 March 2013 08:14 AM

kita, thanks for the reply, and the screenshot.  Before I saw your reply, I removed the Stalker Girl morph from the one character in question, and the issue went away.  So the SG morph is definitely the source of the problem.  It seems to hate shoes.

So, on another character with that morph, wearing platform shoes, I looked at the scale for both the character and the shoes… both 100%.  I selected the shoes, and in the Parameters, was able to fiddle with the JCM for the toes, and the issue was minimized, but not entirely solved.  There is still a little bit of distortion under/in front of the big toe, and the shoe is a little too big.  Fooling with the scale causes other issues, so I might just have to accept this as an interim fix.

It seems to me that I need to find a way to load the SG morph without affecting the feet.  I still have not been able to save a default foot preset successfully.  It’s a pity, because SG is a beautiful, versatile package.  But it eats shoes.

I’ve got that character, so I was able to tinker a bit, just to see if I could replicate the issue.

When I first put the OKL Boots 2 on her, the toe and sole were terribly deformed, but then when I applied the foot pose that comes with the boots, the issue went away completely. This is, however, the only set of shoes I tested that I can say that about.

PB Mary Janes and PB Ballerina Flats and, not surprisingly, the Stalker Girl Boots were fine. Dark Moods boots (low heels, no foot pose) were fine. B9999 Chelsea Boots (low heels, no foot pose) were mostly fine—there’s a tiny wrinkle just behind the toes, but if you’re not looking or doing a really closeup render of the foot, it’s not something that can be seen.

Then I put her in Pumps for V5, used its accompanying foot pose, and the issue didn’t go away. (See image below)

The shoes from Lynette’s Dark Rites (red and black shoes below), which also have foot poses, were kind of interestingly terrible. The Bow Shoes from the new A5 outfit are ... less horrifyingly terrible after applying the foot pose, but still somewhat deformed over the entire foot area. The low heels with Bewitching for Genesis are deformed, but not a huge amount—however, the deformation doesn’t go away when the foot pose is applied.

Doing “Show Hidden Properties” and dialing out the FBMStalkerGirl morph mostly—but not entirely—fixes the issue but also partially unscales the shoe. Dialing out the JCMs completely fixes the problem ... and also completely unscales the shoe, as mentioned by masi3vee

I also tried SG as an additive morph for another V5 character. Lather, rinse, repeat, second verse (or sets of shoes) same as the first, if maybe a bit less intense.

It looks like the issue may be primarily with shoes that require a pose to deform the foot to be used. I thought the age of the shoe and whether or not it was built to accommodate either SG herself or more extreme scaled characters like A5 might be a factor, but every single one of the shoes that didn’t have issues was built long before either SG or A5, and Bow Dress Shoes were built *for* A5, so that’s not it.

It looks like, in general, low or flat shoes should be OK. Shoes with heels will be problematic. No idea why.

So adding Stalker Girl support to the SRMS might be worth it, is what you’re saying?  I’ve been thinking about doing a Toon Expansion Pack for G4, Nata and Mavka anyway.

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Posted: 24 March 2013 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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SickleYield - 24 March 2013 01:37 PM

So adding Stalker Girl support to the SRMS might be worth it, is what you’re saying?  I’ve been thinking about doing a Toon Expansion Pack for G4, Nata and Mavka anyway.

...Probably? I haven’t tried SRMS to rerig shoes built for Genesis, only some early Genesis dresses and skirts that didn’t have much in the way of FBM or movement support, and some Gen4 and Gen3 items. Do Genesis shoes generally have custom FBMs that would get overwritten by SRMS? If not, then yes, definitely.

I can’t see it not being worthwhile, in any event. She’s scaled so differently that it probably would make sense to have a way of putting her shape into clothing with something other than autoconvert.

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Posted: 24 March 2013 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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vwrangler - 24 March 2013 01:47 PM
SickleYield - 24 March 2013 01:37 PM

So adding Stalker Girl support to the SRMS might be worth it, is what you’re saying?  I’ve been thinking about doing a Toon Expansion Pack for G4, Nata and Mavka anyway.

...Probably? I haven’t tried SRMS to rerig shoes built for Genesis, only some early Genesis dresses and skirts that didn’t have much in the way of FBM or movement support, and some Gen4 and Gen3 items. Do Genesis shoes generally have custom FBMs that would get overwritten by SRMS? If not, then yes, definitely.

I can’t see it not being worthwhile, in any event. She’s scaled so differently that it probably would make sense to have a way of putting her shape into clothing with something other than autoconvert.


Most female shoes come with V5.  That’s it.  If I do an add-on I could offer a rigging boot that doesn’t have the V5 morph and thus won’t overwrite it (it’s extremely easy to do that).

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Posted: 24 March 2013 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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The FBM I mentioned would be listed under “Actor”, not under “Hidden” in the parameters tab.  It’s not a perfect fix, because as I said, the shoes actually get larger when you dial this back.  But they do smooth out.

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Posted: 25 March 2013 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Guys, thank you all so much for all your trouble and testing.  I think that I have managed to reduce the severity of the issue with tweaking to a satisfactory degree, but that’s what it will take with the SG morph, I suppose.  Hopefully, some good will come out of my question, as it seems to have brought a problem to light, and you all have offered at least a partial solution.  Thank you all again… this thread is worth a bookmark, I think.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I have just come back to DAZ Studio after spending a few months learning Poser Pro 2012.  I gave up on DAZ Studio because it was crashing on my brand new iMac 27” system after just a few minutes after launch.  I just could not get anything done.  A couple of days ago, I noticed the new “public beta” version of Studio and decided to give it a try.  The good news is, so far, no crashes.

However, the very first scene I tried to create included a Genesis character and the Pumps for V5.  I posed my figure and immediately encountered this strange deforming problem with the shoes.  I hope someone at DAZ is paying attention, and that they are working on a solution.  This is just impossible to live with.  Genesis is supposed to be the state-of-the-art figure making technology, but if I can’t even put a pretty girl into high heels without problems like this, it is worthless to me.  mad

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Posted: 06 May 2013 01:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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JCMs (not FBMs)

Explain what those are? Newbies are lost in this thread! (aka, ME)

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Posted: 06 May 2013 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Joint Controlled Morph, it is used to make adjustments to the mesh when a joint position may cause unsightly deformation.  Full Body Morph, a morph that changes the full body.

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Posted: 06 May 2013 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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jestmart - 06 May 2013 09:56 AM

Joint Controlled Morph, it is used to make adjustments to the mesh when a joint position may cause unsightly deformation.  Full Body Morph, a morph that changes the full body.

Genesis has a lot of hidden JCMs for correcting the elbows and knees, etc. on a given morph.  I use optional JCM for thigh bending on skirts and long shirts so that the user can improve the smoothness in that area without having it mess things up at low to intermediate values. 


You create a JCM by creating the morph, loading it with Reverse Deformations on, and then using the ERC Freeze from Property Editor if you want it to be of the automatic/hidden variety.

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Posted: 06 May 2013 04:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Thanks, one more- SRMS?

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Posted: 06 May 2013 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Novica - 06 May 2013 04:15 PM

Thanks, one more- SRMS?

http://www.daz3d.com/sickle-rigging-and-morphing-system

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