Digital Art Zone

 
   
1 of 2
1
Strange deformation of Genesis footwear on Genesis characters?
Posted: 23 March 2013 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Hello.

Periodically, I have noticed that when I apply Genesis footwear (the merchant does not necessarily seem to matter) such as Grace Pumps, Open Toe Pumps, or OTK Boots to a Genesis character, even though I use the corresponding foot pose (that ships with the footwear), the footwear sometimes “scrunches” or deforms around the foot.  Even the heels on high heels will distort; it’s as though you’re looking at them underwater, and there is usually poke-through associated with the issue.  The odd thing is that this is intermittent, but I’m not sure if it’s something I’m doing, or not doing.  At other times, all works beautifully.

I’d be happy for any potential solutions to this, as it ca be extremely frustrating.

Thanks.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4658
Joined  2008-03-06
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 05:36 PM

Hello.

Periodically, I have noticed that when I apply Genesis footwear (the merchant does not necessarily seem to matter) such as Grace Pumps, Open Toe Pumps, or OTK Boots to a Genesis character, even though I use the corresponding foot pose (that ships with the footwear), the footwear sometimes “scrunches” or deforms around the foot.  Even the heels on high heels will distort; it’s as though you’re looking at them underwater, and there is usually poke-through associated with the issue.  The odd thing is that this is intermittent, but I’m not sure if it’s something I’m doing, or not doing.  At other times, all works beautifully.

I’d be happy for any potential solutions to this, as it ca be extremely frustrating.

Thanks.

Is it just on shoes?  And when you say sometimes, do you mean on some items all the time, or many items at different times?


I’ve noted peculiar conformation errors on basically every type of item in DS4.5 intermittently (usually after the program has been running several hours).  Restarting the program usually fixed it.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

It seems to be always on Genesis/V5 footwear, when it occurs.  I just discovered that it seems to have something to do with a character preset.  I loaded the shoes onto her when her preset was applied, and there was the conformation error.  But when I undid the preset, to the default Genesis shape, the shoes were perfect.  Restoring/zeroing the foot shape/pose does not seem to alleviate the issue when the desired preset is applied.  It’s VERY strange.  Thank you for replying… I’m stumped, though.  I have this lovely female character that has to go barefoot.  :(

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4658
Joined  2008-03-06
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 05:58 PM

It seems to be always on Genesis/V5 footwear, when it occurs.  I just discovered that it seems to have something to do with a character preset.  I loaded the shoes onto her when her preset was applied, and there was the conformation error.  But when I undid the preset, to the default Genesis shape, the shoes were perfect.  Restoring/zeroing the foot shape/pose does not seem to alleviate the issue when the desired preset is applied.  It’s VERY strange.  Thank you for replying… I’m stumped, though.  I have this lovely female character that has to go barefoot.  :(

Aha.  Is it a V5 character, or a custom that the shoes do not support?  Fancy heels with limited FBMs are a leading cause of Autoconform throwing hissy fits.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 07:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Nope… Genesis.  And I have used these same shoes successfully on Genesis many times.  There has to be a way to zero the feet to default.  “Zero” selection from the Edit menu does not seem to do it.  Might have to rebuild this character from scratch.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4658
Joined  2008-03-06
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 07:30 PM

Nope… Genesis.  And I have used these same shoes successfully on Genesis many times.  There has to be a way to zero the feet to default.  “Zero” selection from the Edit menu does not seem to do it.  Might have to rebuild this character from scratch.

V5 is a Genesis morph.  Most shoes support it.  There are a number of other Genesis morphs that are often not supported and absolutely will cause distortion.  S5, Nata, and A5 depending on the item’s age are among the possible culprits.  This is why I asked.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Understood.  Is there a way to reliably zero the feet, though?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 March 2013 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4658
Joined  2008-03-06
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 08:28 PM

Understood.  Is there a way to reliably zero the feet, though?

Load a base Genesis.  It should be zeroed.  Then save a pose to library without moving anything and only check the foot and toe bones.  Now you have a reusable zero.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 03:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1146
Joined  2009-01-09
SickleYield - 23 March 2013 08:43 PM
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 08:28 PM

Understood.  Is there a way to reliably zero the feet, though?

Load a base Genesis.  It should be zeroed.  Then save a pose to library without moving anything and only check the foot and toe bones.  Now you have a reusable zero.

Just out of curiosity: Wouldn’t you want to expand out those bones and make sure that translations and scale are NOT checked? Translations, at least, anyway. Otherwise, you have feet that are trying to go back to 0-0-0 on the XYZ axes, while the rest of Genesis stays where it is, right?

 Signature 

VWrangler at deviantArt (NSFW for some images; login required to view those)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1296
Joined  2005-03-16

I’ve been working on a product for Genesis, and while testing it I found that the shoes I made behave exactly this way with certain dialed in morphs, such as Michael 5.  The reason, as it turns out, is because some of the dialed morphs change the figure scale.  Shoes, in particular, don’t like this very much.  If you don’t have any reason to keep V5 at her height, which is somewhere around 95% of Genesis height, you could try restoring her scaling to 100% in the parameters tab.  This, I found, usually fixes any crumpling of clothes, shoes, hats, etc.

or…

There is also the option of “show hidden properties” in the parameters tab (click on the submenu button, upper left of panel.  Looks like 3 little lines).  If you choose the shoe/s in the scene tab, go to parameters, there should now be a FBM dial for Victoria 5 (or whomever) that is set to 100%.  Dial this back until the shoes straighten out.  I found that sometimes dialing this back to 0% makes the shoes way too big, but small increments will make them look better.

 Signature 

My DAZ Store Page    My Facebook Fan Page    My Twitter Account    Free Video Tutorials    My FreeStuff at ShareCG    My Gallery on DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Guys, thank you for this valuable discussion… lots to consider.  Let me investigate some of the suggestions, and report back.  It occurs to me that both characters that share this issue are Stalker Girl morph-based.  Off to have a look…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Slosh, I have tried your suggestion, though I still may have to see if I can save a foot zero.  In my parameters display, I select the shoes and see only JCMs (not FBMs) under the Hidden tab.  They do affect the shoe fit some, but not optimally.  It seems to me that the best course here is to try to selectively return the character’s feet to absolute base so the shoes don’t fight with them.  Gonna try SY’s suggestion at this point, too.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

Update… no success in saving a default foot shape as yet.  I noticed that, in the troublesome character’s foot shape settings, all of the Extensor Brevis muscles are set at 0.30.  I cannot change them to 0 manually, and don;t seem to be able to apply a 0 preset to them.  This is very strange indeed.  I just can’t get this Stalker Girl morph to use any footwear acceptably.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 07:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1881
Joined  2012-03-24

if you can show the pic how you trying to adjust,,and product names,and morph (characer name) (v5/)
clearly, may other user can help you.(or try same thing and find answer)

usually, if you use vicotria 5 morph, the shoes auto follow the shape .
and it must fit to the genesis rig.
that means,, eg V5 shape morph has link to scale. so that it change genesis rig scale.
on the other hand,,, auto generated morph do not have link to change scale.

but when genesis change rig scale, the shoes rig fit to genesis rig,
so it change scale too.

so there is no problem about scaling if there is no original morph.

on the other hand, if vendor make original morph for V5 shape with link scaling,
it may cause problem, but I believe vendor not include scale when make original morph.
they make morph for shoes with zero scale genesis as sloash said.
then may overwrite, as same name. so that it auto adpted to the shoes
when you change genesis shape by V5morph.(FBMvicotria5)

if the product has no original morph for V5shape,
it means the shoes must auto-followd FBMvictoria5,
so you can find the morph in parameter tab,, I think.rolleyes

====================================

and,, if the bad effect caused by JCMs and it was rocked,,
(but I hink,, auto-generated morph (jcm or FBM or MCM of genesis ) has no ERC,
so usually you can easy change these hide parameter to zero and remove the effect.,,

you can see rock icon on parameter,
then click the key (rock) icon, you can unrock and change parameter .

Image Attachments
autosize.JPG
Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Member
Rank
Total Posts:  148
Joined  2012-07-20

kita, thanks for the reply, and the screenshot.  Before I saw your reply, I removed the Stalker Girl morph from the one character in question, and the issue went away.  So the SG morph is definitely the source of the problem.  It seems to hate shoes.

So, on another character with that morph, wearing platform shoes, I looked at the scale for both the character and the shoes… both 100%.  I selected the shoes, and in the Parameters, was able to fiddle with the JCM for the toes, and the issue was minimized, but not entirely solved.  There is still a little bit of distortion under/in front of the big toe, and the shoe is a little too big.  Fooling with the scale causes other issues, so I might just have to accept this as an interim fix.

It seems to me that I need to find a way to load the SG morph without affecting the feet.  I still have not been able to save a default foot preset successfully.  It’s a pity, because SG is a beautiful, versatile package.  But it eats shoes.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 March 2013 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4658
Joined  2008-03-06
vwrangler - 24 March 2013 03:04 AM
SickleYield - 23 March 2013 08:43 PM
masi3vee - 23 March 2013 08:28 PM

Understood.  Is there a way to reliably zero the feet, though?

Load a base Genesis.  It should be zeroed.  Then save a pose to library without moving anything and only check the foot and toe bones.  Now you have a reusable zero.

Just out of curiosity: Wouldn’t you want to expand out those bones and make sure that translations and scale are NOT checked? Translations, at least, anyway. Otherwise, you have feet that are trying to go back to 0-0-0 on the XYZ axes, while the rest of Genesis stays where it is, right?

No, it actually will zero translations relative to the rest of the figure in my testing.

 Signature 

My store at DAZ.

My Deviantart gallery.

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1