uberEnvironment2 IBL map axis is wrong

kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

I have read some report, about UE2.
it cause wrong direction shadow and AO effect.

I thought it seems updated and removed alerady, so did not care it.
(and I have not tried UE2 before, so do not think much)

but,, a few weeks ago,, I want to try IBL then study and did some test.

Now I believe,, the IBLmap and effect are different direction.

these pic show it clear.

sphere is sopt light rendered prmitive sphere with ds default shader,
left sphere is UE2 light. applied KHpark.dsa.
just change scale.

the green part of rendered primitive,,should be caused by underground lawn glass of image map.
but the direction is different. it show the axis of rotation is titled.

daz can not correct this wrong rotation?

and how to fit your gackground image and effect of UE2 ?
simply rotate parented sphere, and adjust it?

topview.JPG
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backview.JPG
719 x 562 - 41K
Bottomview.JPG
698 x 529 - 38K
ub2left.JPG
749 x 558 - 44K
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Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,946
    edited December 1969

    Either rotate the sphere to match the light, or unparent the sphere and rotate the light to match the sphere - remember that th sphere is meant o be a preview, it isn't required for UE to function. In any event, please make a bug report.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
    edited March 2013

    Richard can you confirm there is problem? or you think it is not problem?
    because You know , I am not so clear aboug daz tools still and 3d lighting.

    I do not hesitate to send bug report about the clear bug or problem,
    but , I feel strange , many forum member have not reported or pointed out
    about rotation .

    I know,the light sphere is meant to be a preview,
    But,, if the angle is not same as pic,
    it is difficult adjust light direction when use sphere as preview.
    and decide the light.

    I think,,, the IBL map color should be much the light effect..
    so that it can work as preview, well.

    It is not only about the preset of uberEnviroment2 preset, KHpark, or Kitchen image.

    ( I know these image can not work well as back ground image,
    so they just used as light effect)

    But when apply high resolution landscape image as background which used when make IBL maps,
    the light effect must be close to the image. so that it can cause real effect. I think.

    though I can unparent sphere, and change rotation of light root node, and save the poze preset,
    as you said,, and (actually there is some tool) ,, but UE2 need update I think.

    if there is problem or clear points to improve about products, it should be improved.
    I belive so.

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,946
    edited December 1969

    I saw what you saw, and I agree it seems wrong - the whole point of the sphere with the image is to let you see how the light will fall, so you can position it as you want.

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    For what it's worth after all this time that the thread was started, I can verify that the axis of the EnvironmentSphere definitely do not match the IBL of UE2. I've only recently started using it too and was wondering why the lighting doesn't seem to make sense...

    After rotating the Environment sphere to seemingly match the lighting of the IBL, it's also pretty evident that the horizon line of UE2 doesn't match the scene without further rotating UE2 itself.

    So basically if you want to use any typical IBL based on a equirectangular photo in a way that makes sense (i.e. horizon line of the photo horizontal and sky above ground), you have to manually adjust both UE2 and the environment sphere and then probably parent them to a null for easier rotation around the Y axis.

    For anyone wondering here, are the rotation values that seem somewhat accurate - with the horizon line seemingly horizontal:

    UE2:
    X Rotate: 107
    Y Rotate: 0
    Z Rotate: -28

    EnvironmentSphere
    while normally parented to UE2 (you''ll have to unlock and unhide the rotation channels before being able to adjust these):
    X Rotate: 64
    Y Rotate: -22
    Z Rotate: 82

    Seems incredible that after all this time of UE2 being around and in use, something like this hasn't been picked up and fixed already. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Just to let you know that the Sphere has no relationship with how the light is emitted, meaning it is only for visual reference, a guide, and plays no part in lighting the scene.

    I had a look on the bug site and couldn't see a bug report, if one has been made and it is public can we have a link so we can add to it please.

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    Szark said:
    Just to let you know that the Sphere has no relationship with how the light is emitted, meaning it is only for visual reference, a guide, and plays no part in lighting the scene.

    I had a look on the bug site and couldn't see a bug report, if one has been made and it is public can we have a link so we can add to it please.

    Here's the bug report: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=49881

    Yes, clearly the sphere is just a visual reference but it's no use if it isn't accurate. With a little more testing, though, it's starting seem like the problem isn't that the EnvironmentSphere or UE2 is tilted but rather than the mapping for UE2 (the lighting, not the reference) is distorted. See the attachment image.

    The image displays the UE2 Environment sphere and a white sphere primitive lit by UE2 only. UE2 is set to Occlusion with soft shadows (I probably should've used Ambient but the results match these anyway) and the image used for the lighting has an even red color (horizontal gradient) on the top pole and an even green gradient on the bottom pole - as displayed by the Environment sphere. What we should be getting is an even red light distributed straight from the top, and an even green light distributed from the bottom. Clearly this isn't the case.

    edit to add: I'm using DS3 here but the results are the same with DS4.5

    UE2_mapping_problem.jpg
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    Post edited by Tempest! on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Tempest! said:

    Yes, clearly the sphere is just a visual reference but it's no use if it isn't accurate.

    I won't argue with that.

    Added to the bug report, thx for the link. I must get my eyes tested.

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for verifying the issue. It's starting to look like something we can't just work around.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    I was wondering for sometime about why I wasn't getting to results I should be getting from using UE2. This really has got me a little peeved and I normal don't get peeved with things like this.

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yeah. Quite a strange thing to run into at this point, too.

  • TofusanTofusan Posts: 17
    edited December 1969

    This is a well-known bug of UberEnvironment2. For this problem, script to fix it there.

    IBL Transformer for UberEnvironment2, v3.03
    http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2011/10/daz-studio-34-i.html

    To download it, click the icon of the colored circle of this page.

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    Thanks a lot for the link! The script seems to work really well, in addition to being all around useful.

    A well known bug, and yet it's still there. >:(

    Post edited by Tempest! on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 520
    edited April 2013

    And all along I thought it was ME that was the problem.

    I could never make sense of the IBL orientation. Now I discover it needed to be rotated on TWO axes (is that the correct plural of axis? part of me thinks so but only part). Used that script, nifty dooad though I do not think it does everything it says it does (the quality settings do not seem to match what the INI says), that's a small matter for getting an elegant work around.

    How about we get a FIX instead?

    //edit

    what language is that site in? Pardon my ignorance. There seems to be a very interesting SSS w/ ubersurface article there and I would dearly love to read it.

    Post edited by evilded777 on
  • TofusanTofusan Posts: 17
    edited December 1969

    And all along I thought it was ME that was the problem.

    I could never make sense of the IBL orientation. Now I discover it needed to be rotated on TWO axes (is that the correct plural of axis? part of me thinks so but only part). Used that script, nifty dooad though I do not think it does everything it says it does (the quality settings do not seem to match what the INI says), that's a small matter for getting an elegant work around.

    How about we get a FIX instead?

    //edit

    what language is that site in? Pardon my ignorance. There seems to be a very interesting SSS w/ ubersurface article there and I would dearly love to read it.


    Sorry, that site are written in Japanese. I think you can read if translated in Google. :)
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2011/10/daz-studio-34-i.html&act=url

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Japanese is usually the best guess for any great looking poser stuff in an Asian language you don't recognize.

    I haven't fiddled with the quality settings because I adjust them manually, but I can confirm that the script does indeed seem to fix the mapping of the IBL in addition to rotating UE2 and the sphere. At least my test map used in the earlier post now renders exactly as expected. So in effect the script fixes the problem.

    The integrated tdlmake powered HDR to TIFF converter is very useful too, particularly if you have a bunch of HDRI maps that you want to try out. Cuts out couple of extra steps from the process.

    Thanks again, tofusan and Osomaki(?).

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 520
    edited December 1969

    The translation is, alas, thoroughly mediocre; but I can get an idea at least.

    This is wonderful, thank you for sharing. Renewed hope/interest in UE2.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969

    In UE2, the HDRI and LDRI spheres are 35° off. This has been reported and was acknowledged in autumn 2011 already.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 520
    edited December 1969

    So it been acknowledged as broken for two years, and its not yet fixed.

    Seems like it would be simple enough.... Could we get this fixed, please?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    I tried the fix in DS3A and all I got was a camera warning and no render, went back to normal UE2 and all rendered without the camera warning. :(

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well that sucks. I'm using DS3A (the last release) and it's working correctly although I'm also getting a "severity 1" warning. I'm not sure if I get it with regular UE2 too, though.

    Are you sure you have everything installed where it should be?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Yep all present and correct. I will try again and note the warning messgae number and what it says.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    I added a new camera and now it works perfectly. :)

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,069
    edited December 1969

    So, Pete, you're saying it doesn't work perfectly with the "default" DS camera? That's not a problem for me, as I always leave the default camera for moving around and viewing things up close for say posing hands and fingers, but always have a "render" camera locked into the position I want for my final render as well. In fact, I have a Startup Scene with those two cameras (and a couple of lights) already set up.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Yeah every time I have used this fix I had to make a new camera. But as you say not a big problem. :)

  • Tempest!Tempest! Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    That's good to know. I never use the default camera either, it's too easy to get overwritten when (like with dynamic items) you're loading stuff to the scene.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    I does irk me though that this has be borked for so long even with bug reports and explains why I have gotten wierd results and I don't get anoyed that easily.

  • Swawa3DSwawa3D Posts: 223
    edited December 1969

    I find this bug really frustrating. The fact that something this major has never been fixed really concerns me. It makes me wonder how many other things are broken in DS that I have not stumbled across in the forums yet? I'm also curious as to how many products using UE2 have accounted for this error. Then if they do fix it globally will the products that fixed it be messed up?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Good questions Swawa. I hope we get some answers. I see you added to the bug report too.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 776
    edited December 1969

    tofusan said:
    This is a well-known bug of UberEnvironment2. For this problem, script to fix it there.

    IBL Transformer for UberEnvironment2, v3.03
    http://oso.tea-nifty.com/blog/2011/10/daz-studio-34-i.html

    To download it, click the icon of the colored circle of this page.

    Ok, I downloaded the script, but when I run it, I get a dialog box. Why doesn't it just correct the rotation problem right away? Why would I need to select options?

    What are the options I need to fix this rotation problem with the IBL?

    Untitled-1.jpg
    384 x 577 - 77K
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,794
    edited December 1969

    Just hit Accept and load a preset from the UE2 library or set up the HDRI map and set the settings manually.

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